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(Anglican) Bishop: Christians don't go to heaven
WorldNetDaily ^ | 2/10/08 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 02/10/2008 1:46:46 PM PST by wagglebee

A bishop described as "one of the most formidable figures in the world of Christian thought" is now challenging the widely held belief that Christians go to heaven when they die.

N.T. "Tom" Wright, the fourth most senior cleric in the Church of England who has been praised for his staunch defense of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ, has published a new book in which he says people do not ascend to God's dwelling place. Instead, God will be coming back to Earth.

"Never at any point do the Gospels or Paul say Jesus has been raised, therefore we are we are all going to heaven," Wright told Time Magazine. "I've often heard people say, 'I'm going to heaven soon, and I won't need this stupid body there, thank goodness.' That's a very damaging distortion, all the more so for being unintentional."

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: anglican; coe; europeanchristians; fv; heaven; heresy; npp; resurrection; theology; tomwright
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To: wagglebee
1. World Nut Doily

2. Context is lacking (see #1)

21 posted on 02/10/2008 3:01:45 PM PST by r9etb
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To: elpadre
These excerpts today are misleading.

It's WND ... what'd you expect?

22 posted on 02/10/2008 3:02:58 PM PST by r9etb
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To: wagglebee

Wright and his followers have caused much mischief among the Reformed churches. Recently, the PCA considered expelling an entire presbytery over error caught from Wright. (The matter may have been resolved when the ringleader resigned from the denomination and took his church to another body where such error is tolerated).

It will be interesting to see how far down the path he leads folks.


23 posted on 02/10/2008 3:30:23 PM PST by PAR35
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To: wagglebee; sionnsar; Huber
he dismisses the idea that we also go to Heaven.

Actually, in all fairness, he dismisses the idea that we all go to heaven, which has become a popular notion. In that respect he is correct. Do the Anglicans recognize Purgatory?

24 posted on 02/10/2008 3:47:40 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: wagglebee
Echoing Sionnsar, Kolokotronis and others, Wright is both a serious and orthodox theologian. This is NOT another case of left wing Anglican apostasy.
25 posted on 02/10/2008 3:50:06 PM PST by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Tax-chick; elpadre

Here it is:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1967478/posts


26 posted on 02/10/2008 3:56:51 PM PST by Inyo-Mono (If you don't want people to get your goat, don't tell them where it's tied.)
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To: NYer; sionnsar

Most Anglicans do not recognize purgatory, although within the Anglican Catholic Church many do.


27 posted on 02/10/2008 4:06:00 PM PST by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: NYer
However, Purgatory has ALWAYS been a temporary state and there has never been a suggestion that one remains There until the Last Judgment.
28 posted on 02/10/2008 4:06:59 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
“What is the “Paradise” that the robber would be with the Lord if not Heaven?”

Here’s the answer to your question. All saints prior to Jesus’s resurrection were placed in “Paradise”. Nobody was permitted in heaven before Jesus. That’s why He said “Paradise” instead of “Heaven”. Paradise was separated from hell by a large chasm.

29 posted on 02/10/2008 4:10:34 PM PST by bigcat32
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To: wagglebee

Right, so if everyone is dispatched to the relevent eternal place of abode as soon as they die, what is the day of Judgement all about?


30 posted on 02/10/2008 4:18:19 PM PST by thundrey
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To: bigcat32; sionnsar; Huber; NYer

You all raise some excellent points; however, the fact remains that (leaving aside any debates about Purgatory) it has NEVER been taught by the Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox that saved Christians would be denied entrance to Heaven prior to the Second Coming or Last Judgment.


31 posted on 02/10/2008 4:21:44 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Huber
Most Anglicans do not recognize purgatory

Do you suppose this was factored in to his message?

32 posted on 02/10/2008 4:23:55 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: sionnsar

Thanks for the PING...

I’m going to Heaven when I die...

But you dont have to call me a Christian...

Jesus told me to be a Believer...


33 posted on 02/10/2008 4:28:00 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Huber

Most Anglicans do not recognize purgatory, although within the Anglican Catholic Church many do.
_____________________________________________

I was brought up in a High Anglican Church...

But we were never taught that purgatory was real...

I always understood it to be a Roman Catholic belief, only...


34 posted on 02/10/2008 4:31:46 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Inyo-Mono

Thanks for the link. His actual statements are very much what I’d expected, as opposed to what the extracts attempted to convery.


35 posted on 02/10/2008 4:41:32 PM PST by Tax-chick ("Political zombies need brains, but they hunger only for taxes." ~ NicknamedBob)
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To: wagglebee

“The fact remains that (leaving aside any debates about Purgatory) it has NEVER been taught by the Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox that saved Christians would be denied entrance to Heaven prior to the Second Coming or Last Judgment.”

I go by The Bible. The death/resurrection of Jesus is 100% payment for my sins. To say I won’t go to heaven would be calling God a liar. To say that I will spend time in a “Purgatory” would be saying that His death/resurrection is not 100% payment. His death and resurrection is 100% PAYMENT. This is hard to believe for many people.


36 posted on 02/10/2008 4:51:12 PM PST by bigcat32
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To: wagglebee
that saved Christians would be denied entrance to Heaven prior to the Second Coming or Last Judgment.

If you read the Bishop's complete comments, you'll see that he says that those who are saved will be in the Presence of God from the time of their deaths. He's simply saying that this is not the "Heaven" commonly visualized in popular culture.

He then emphasizes the ultimate End of Time, the return of Jesus in glory, the resurrection of the living and the dead (the reunion of souls with bodies) and the New Heavens and New Earth restored through Christ.

37 posted on 02/10/2008 4:55:31 PM PST by Tax-chick ("Political zombies need brains, but they hunger only for taxes." ~ NicknamedBob)
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To: bigcat32

I’m not interested in getting into a debate on the subject of Purgatory on this thread because I don’t believe that is what the bishop was talking about.

That being said, I am in agreement that saved Christians are in Heaven today and not awaiting the Second Coming or Last Judgment beforehand.


38 posted on 02/10/2008 4:55:32 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Tax-chick

I may have to get the book and read it.


39 posted on 02/10/2008 4:56:27 PM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

I’m prepared to be dubious about statements of a Church of England Bishop :-), but in this case, I didn’t find much in the interview to disagree with. His statements are Scriptural: “The souls of the righteous” (putting aside all arguments over who those “righteous” are) will be with God. However, the existence of the disembodied soul in God’s Presence isn’t the end. There will be the final Judgment, the Resurrection of all, and the re-created Heavens and Earth - not just “Heaven.”


40 posted on 02/10/2008 5:01:47 PM PST by Tax-chick ("Political zombies need brains, but they hunger only for taxes." ~ NicknamedBob)
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