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Seven Prophecies That Must Be Fulfilled Before Jesus Christ's Return
Good News Magazine ^ | Feb 2008 | Melvin Rhodes

Posted on 02/22/2008 5:31:45 PM PST by DouglasKC

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To: HarleyD
To what end will this achieve? IF Christ were to return tomorrow for 1,000 years, would non-Christians be saved? As far as Christians, I believe our Lord chastised Thomas because he had to physically see and touch our Lord Jesus. Blessed are those who do not see-yet believe.

Hi Harley...I suspect we have different doctrinal beliefs on these issues. Of course only Christians will be saved, but I believe the millennium is a time period when the whole earth can finally see the truth of Christ without the interference of Satan, who is bound at the beginning of the millennium. Of course details are scant in the bible about what exactly occurs, but there are indications. For example, I would consider this a millennial prophecy:

Isa 41:14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 41:15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.
Isa 41:16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 41:17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst, I the LORD will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them.
Isa 41:18 I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.
Isa 41:19 I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the shittah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together:
Isa 41:20 That they may see, and know, and consider, and understand together, that the hand of the LORD hath done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it.

I can't argue, nor am I'm trying to argue, Revelation. I just don't think the book is as clear cut as many purport it to be.

I would agree that it CAN be difficult to understand. But it's not meant to be that way.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation was written so that God's servants would be informed about future events. We can know it if we approach our study with prayer and God's Holy spirit.

With all due respect, why? What precisely are we transitioning to? This sounds much like the Catholic doctrine of purgatory-God's holding tank while we become better people.

I believe it's a transition or a learning period for God's people. I believe that it will be used by God to teach us how to create, how to build, how to use the faith and power God will give his children...

Isa 41:15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff.

Our Lord Jesus turned to the thief on the cross and said, "Today you will be with me in Paradise." I believe that happens to every believer, we are transported from this life to the next. When Christ returns, that will be that. The end. Unbelievers will go to judgment while believers have been judged already through Christ.

I think there are many more scriptures that indicate a specific time period before Christians are resurrected to glory than not. If the totality of scripture indicates otherwise than one would need to re-examine the thief on the cross to see where it might be being misinterpreted. I will grant though that to a Christian, the time perceived between death and seeing Christ will be instantaneous. When I die I know that the next blink of my eye will behold Christ.

151 posted on 02/25/2008 6:27:31 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Marysecretary; GOPPachyderm
We ARE made righteous through Jesus Christ.

If you mean imputed righteousness, yes, if you mean imparted, no.

152 posted on 02/25/2008 7:26:14 PM PST by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: GOPPachyderm; Marysecretary
"Self-righteousness is also much promoted by the almost universal spirit of trifling which is now abroad. Only while men trifle with themselves can they entertain the idea of personal merit before God. He who comes to serious thoughts and begins to understand the character of God before whom the heavens are not pure and the angels are charged with folly, he, I say, that comes to serious thought and beholds a true vision of God abhors himself in dust and ashes and is forever silenced as to any thought of self-justification.

It is because we do not seriously examine our condition that we think ourselves rich and increased with goods. A man may fancy that he is prospering in business and yet he may be going back in the world. If he does not face his books or take stock, he may be living in a fool’s paradise spending largely when on the verge of bankruptcy.

Many think well of themselves because they never think seriously. They do not look below the surface, and hence, they are deceived by appearances. The most troublesome business to many men is thought, and the last thing they will do is weigh their actions, test their motives, or ponder their ways to see whether things be right with them. Self-righteousness being supported by ignorance, by pride, by unbelief, and by the natural superficiality of the human mind is strongly entrenched and cannot be readily driven out of men. Yet self-righteousness is evidently evil for it makes light of sin.

It talks of merit in the one who has already transgressed and boasts of excellence in reference to a fallen and depraved creature. It prattles of little faults, small failures and slight omissions and so makes sin to be a venial error which may be readily overlooked. Not so faith in God, for though it recognizes pardon, yet that pardon is seen to come in a way which proves sin to be exceedingly sinful."

- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

 (Click here to listen and/or download this sermon.)

153 posted on 02/25/2008 7:31:43 PM PST by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
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To: Marysecretary

I agree with you on this. Deception and delusion to cast doubt on the truth of scripture.


154 posted on 02/25/2008 7:49:49 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: DouglasKC; Ezekiel; Ping-Pong
Of course only Christians will be saved, but I believe the millennium is a time period when the whole earth can finally see the truth of Christ without the interference of Satan, who is bound at the beginning of the millennium.

I have often thought of the Millennium as a period which will bring the Earth back to its original state spoken in [Genesis 1:31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

We are told that Satan will be bound for a thousand years [Revelation 20:2]....that we will reign with Our Saviour for those thousand years [20:6]. Think of the ramifications.

Ruling a world with no Satanic influence: There will be much to do. Not everyone living during the Millennium will be a immortal being reigning with Christ. There will still be flesh and blood humanity to deal with and they will still have a sinful nature.

At last humanity will learn to live God's way and to enjoy the benefits of that life. I would imagine that after a few years under God's direct rule pollution will be a thing of the past. Man will be learning God's ways when it comes to food production and hunger will become a thing of the past. Mankind will also reap the benefits of God's dietary laws and so disease will go the way of pollution and hunger.

Children will still be born to flesh and blood humanity but now....with no Satanic influence, families will be close and God centered. Death will still be a part of mortal life but after a few years folks will find by observing God's Laws (physical and spiritual) they will be living much longer lives. The folks in Genesis were the recipients of this same benefit....but Satanic influence caused them to turn from God's instructions and their lifespans suffered accordingly.

There will be a cadre of immortal beings [I Corinthians 15:51-52][I Thessalonians 4:16-17] helping to govern this world and folks will finally be shown the way to happiness. They will live by God's Laws, celebrates God's Festivals [Zechariah 14:16-19] and Sabbaths and learn the ways of The Lord. They will learn the way of giving.....they will forget the way of getting.

What about the folks who were not resurrected to immortality....? [Revelation 20:4-6] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The dead who take part in this resurrection (the second) will include folks who have never heard the Word of God....or the only Name where they can receive eternal life. Are we to believe these folks will not be given a chance to learn of God and His Son? Do we think they will be casually tossed into the Lake of Fire because some missionary in China had a flat tire and could not make it to their bedside prior to their death? This will not be a second chance for these people.....they never had a first one to begin with!

Yes...there will be much to do before Satan is released again. Since mankind will still have a sinful nature not everyone will select the way of life. Some will choose to submit to their human natures and will suffer the second death after their resurrections [20:14]. All will be resurrected....some to life....some to death.[Daniel 12:1-2]

Then we will step into eternity: [Revelation 21:1-4]

155 posted on 02/25/2008 8:08:37 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

Excellent post and summary Diego...thank you.


156 posted on 02/25/2008 8:23:12 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

This is very well done. But also for a joke. We also have the Anti-Christ and False Prophet.

Obama and Farrakhan


157 posted on 02/25/2008 8:26:50 PM PST by DarthVader (Liberal Democrats are the party of EVIL whose time of judgement has come.)
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To: Diego1618

Sounds reasonably Biblical, I think.

Thanks.


158 posted on 02/25/2008 8:45:55 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: sauropod

read


159 posted on 02/25/2008 8:49:14 PM PST by sauropod (Will Hillary bring the silver back to the Whitehouse, or is this all about finishing up the set?)
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To: Quix
Sounds reasonably Biblical, I think.

Coming from you.....that means a lot! Thank you....yourself!

160 posted on 02/25/2008 8:51:09 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

Thanks for your good work and your kind words.
God’s speed to you Bro.


161 posted on 02/25/2008 9:17:55 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: DarthVader

LOL


162 posted on 02/25/2008 9:18:58 PM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Diego1618
We are told that Satan will be bound for a thousand years [Revelation 20:2]....that we will reign with Our Saviour for those thousand years [20:6]. Think of the ramifications

In connection with being "priests of God and of Christ" [Rev.20:6] is the "man child" of [Rev.12:5]. Until recently I saw the man child as Christ but now believe He was the first man child but also was a type for the future one(s) who are His elect, the "priests of God" that will rule with Him.

I have been delving into the "woman," her "man child," and the "two witnesses"...Who are they, where the "wilderness" is and is it a spiritual or physical wilderness. Also when (if not already) the time will be that they "should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." Add to that...who is the "they" that will feed her?

Have you considered those scriptures before and their meaning?

..................Ping-Pong

163 posted on 02/26/2008 4:42:00 AM PST by Ping-Pong
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To: Ezekiel; Diego1618; DouglasKC
As Ephraim is mentioned separately in this prophecy, the reference to " Israel" must apply to the United States, which is now the more dominant of the two nations.

I very much agree with what you are saying. My question is do you believe the "tribes" today are still physical only, or spiritual only.... or both?

Some I speak with think that it is spiritual only since the Advent of Christ. My personal understanding is that there remains a blood lineage tribal connection but any Gentile becomes part of that family through belief in Christ.

What is your understanding?

....Ping-Pong

164 posted on 02/26/2008 4:53:25 AM PST by Ping-Pong
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To: Ezekiel
Better make that ‘Eight’!

Acts 3

18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Messiah would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent (Tshuvah) therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Yeshua Messiah, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration (Tikkunim)of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

165 posted on 02/26/2008 12:43:52 PM PST by Jeremiah Jr (What would John Lennon do?)
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To: DouglasKC
Of course only Christians will be saved, but I believe the millennium is a time period when the whole earth can finally see the truth of Christ without the interference of Satan, who is bound at the beginning of the millennium.

Hi Douglas...I know there are different views on the return of Christ. All this pre-, post-, anil-, is too confusing for me. I simply believe that Christ will return, and that's that. The judgment. It makes everthing rather tidy in my mind.

I don't see the purpose of having a "time period when the whole earth can see the truth of Christ". Romans tells us that ever since creation "..the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them". Men know the truth. They just simply don't wish to acknowledge it, with or without Satan.

For example, I would consider this a millennial prophecy: Isa 41:14

I find a number of these prophesies all have been fulfilled in one way or another.

Revelation was written so that God's servants would be informed about future events.

I find that most of "God's servants" who have lead us down this dispensationalist path have a poor understanding of basic scripture. They change their interpretation to suit current events. Not only that, for them to reject the church as the chosen people of Christ is to reject the heart of the Bible. People can make Revelation say just about anything they want.

166 posted on 02/26/2008 5:31:28 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: GOPPachyderm

There’s so much demonic activity on earth now. It’s increasing. We are in the midst of a horrendous spiritual warfare for the soul of our nation and for individual souls who are blinded. Prayer is the only way to break it. M


167 posted on 02/26/2008 10:06:39 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Terriergal

Thanks, terriergal. Good post!


168 posted on 02/26/2008 10:07:58 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Ping-Pong; Diego1618; Jeremiah Jr
My question is do you believe the "tribes" today are still physical only, or spiritual only.... or both?

Well, the child of promise (Isaac) was a genetic son. And Ephraim was to become the fullness of the Gentiles.

any Gentile becomes part of that family through belief in Christ.

Or perhaps that *is* what serves as an identifier of physical descent [of those otherwise lost to history].

Graft a Tzadik onto the front of the word "Javan" (Greece) and you get "Zion", whose sum = Joseph.

06726 Tsiyown {tsee-yone'}
the same (regularly) as 06725; TWOT - 1910; n pr loc
AV - Zion 153, Sion 1; 154
Zion = "parched place"

1) another name for Jerusalem especially in the prophetic books

>>>>

06725 tsiyuwn {tsee-yoon'}
from the same as 06723 in the sense of conspicuousness [compare 05329]; TWOT - 1887a; n m
AV - title 1, waymark 1, sign 1; 3

1) signpost, monument, market

Modern Hebrew v. tziyen (from tziyun, mark): mark, note, distinguish, be characteristic of

Gerund (tziyun): mark(ing), grade*, remark

*as in score, grades (tziyunim) on a report card

Galatians 3:24-29

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

169 posted on 02/27/2008 12:55:38 AM PST by Ezekiel
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To: DouglasKC

You can get the book at Christian Book Distributors. M


170 posted on 02/27/2008 7:47:45 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: ladyinred

They’re a deception, anything to keep our eyes off of God, lady. How are you feeling these days?


171 posted on 02/27/2008 7:49:26 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Ping-Pong
[Rev:12:5] Until recently I saw the man child as Christ but now believe He was the first man child but also was a type for the future one(s) who are His elect, the "priests of God" that will rule with Him.

Not quite sure I understand. Who do you mean by...."the first man child"? I have always believed that this is The Messiah being spoken of.

The woman spoken of is "Israel". Wilderness implies many things and has many interpretations. "They should feed her" can just as easily be said....."She will be fed" leaving one to believe it will be God who does the feeding. The Greek does not say "they".....but it is implied that someone does the feeding.

172 posted on 02/27/2008 3:34:44 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618
[Rev:12:5] Until recently I saw the man child as Christ but now believe He was the first man child but also was a type for the future one(s) who are His elect, the "priests of God" that will rule with Him.

Not quite sure I understand. Who do you mean by...."the first man child"? I have always believed that this is The Messiah being spoken of.

I thought so too but recently it was brought to my attention that it can't be. They are correct.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
This represents the Zodiac with the twelve constellations as well as Israel with the twelve tribes that brought forth the Messiah.

2.And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3.And there appeared another wonder in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4.And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
The woman is Mary delivering Christ and Herod wanted to kill Him. She delivered the first man child but is there another?

5.And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.

Christ will rule with a "rod of iron" but so shall those that are with Him.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:

27.And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father.

28.And I will give him the morning star.

There are other scriptures too but Christ giving the "rod of iron" to "him" as well as "authority over the nations" and the "morning star" demonstrate that there is more than one man child. He is The Man Child but His elect are those that will rule with Him [Rev.20:6]

This has been an interesting study, one I first balked at but finally realized this man child of the woman in [Rev.12:5] was just another name for the elect of [20:6]

The woman spoken of is "Israel". Wilderness implies many things and has many interpretations. "They should feed her" can just as easily be said....."She will be fed" leaving one to believe it will be God who does the feeding. The Greek does not say "they".....but it is implied that someone does the feeding.

God feeds but is it through the Holy Spirit, the two witnesses or through the elect? And....where is the wilderness? An actual place she is taken to or is this us where we are now? Are we in the midst of the 3 1/2 years of being fed in the wilderness?

I've had my head wrapped around this and associated teachings all day. I'm off to watch American Idol and totally waste the next 1 1/2 hours. Sometimes that is a good thing to do.

.......Ping-Pong

173 posted on 02/27/2008 4:54:14 PM PST by Ping-Pong
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To: DouglasKC

No further questions.


174 posted on 02/29/2008 8:42:26 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: Diego1618

Where do I think the Israelites are today?

A ludicrous question.

The Bible says clearly, they will be regathered in the land God gave them. Israel!

And look... there they are.

Are there “some” who aren’t? Sure, always happens that way. Not all Africans are in Africa. Not all Americans are in America. Big whooop. You can’t invent doctrine when the Bible is explicit.

This theory of who the Jews are and where the Jews are was MADE UP because people at the time couldn’t imagine any possible chain of events which would CAUSE the Jews to go back to Palestine, occupy the land physically and then remake their nation.

DOH!

But they did.

Now any other talk.

ANY, whatsoever... about “Who is X % Jewish or descended from whom.. is not about GOD’S MIRACLE of restoring His people, but is INSTEAD a debate about genes, and linage... which IS RACE!

Ya follow that?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any belief about LOST TRIBES without considering RACE as the factor.

Thus the entire debate is racIST.

Just on the face of it. DEFACTO!

So there are TWO and ONLY two choices here:

#1 God is clear and exact and reveals Himself plainly and He means what He says and He just DOES it. Simple.

or

#2 God is cryptic, unclear, sneaky and man must try and game the system with science and genetics and all sorts of extra biblical thinking to come up with ways to make God’s prophesy happen.

Now... one of those is MY GOD... the other must be YOURS.

The god of Mystery is the god of Babylon. My God is not that way. My God is the revealer of mystery and speaks in simple father-daughter language and doesn’t have to resort to legal trickery to make a miracle happen.

They just happen in plain sight and are completely obvious for all.

Why? Cause He is UNWILLING that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance and be saved.

Preach any other gospel... especially when it comes to who the Jews are and what his works are for them after the age of the gentiles... and yer WAY WAY WAY PAST CULTISM and boldly pushing EVIL.

Have I made my point yet?

The difference between this Britain and America being the Lost Jews and out right Anti-Semitic Jew Hate is the difference between HOW MUCH Rat Poison is in your breakfast cereal.


175 posted on 02/29/2008 8:59:41 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: RachelFaith; DouglasKC
Where do I think the Israelites are today? A ludicrous question.

This is what we are about to see. Is it really Ludicrous or is your prejudice showing?

The Bible says clearly, they will be regathered in the land God gave them. Israel! And look... there they are.

This is what scripture says: [Ezekiel 37:19] Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. The first 18 Chapters speak of this as happening during a general resurrection.....so we know it is yet in the future.

Most of the folks who reside in Israel today are descendants of three tribes.....Judah, Benjamin and Levi. You'll find that scripture also confirms this descendency in [1 Kings 12:23]. By the time of the Assyrian deportation of Israel [II Kings 17:18] Benjamin was also considered part of Judah....the Southern Kingdom. In addition [II Chronicles 11:13-17] tells us that all the Levites left Israel and came to Judah when they were rejected as priests by Jereboam. Along with them came other Israelites from all the other tribes but the preponderant majority of these Israelites remained in the north and were exiled to Assyria in 721 B.C. [II Kings 17:22-23]. If you read the scripture you'll see that they are still there.... and this scripture was written after the return from Babylon by the Nation of Judah (Southern Kingdom) more than 200 years later. There are no subsequent scriptures that tell of the return of Israel (Northern Kingdom) from exile.

We can see that two specific nations were formed from one. This was done because of the sins of Solomon....David's son [I Kings 11:11-13]. The Northern Kingdom kept the name Israel and the Southern Kingdom used the name Judah.....as that was the name of the primary tribe. From this point onward when the Bible speaks of Jews it is referring to descendants of the three tribes who made up the Southern Kingdom.....Judah, Benjamin and Levi. In fact, the first place in scripture you'll see the word Jew in use is in {II Kings 16:6] At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day. The fifth verse will tell you that the Jews were at war against Israel. This in itself tells us now that when we see the Jews in prophecy we should not necessarily assume the prophecy is about Israel.....and vice versa.

Now....I'm going to stop at this point as I have noticed what I call "Chiponshoulderitis" on your part....and consequently, I'm not sure if you are really interested in learning these things.....or not. If you would like to learn these Biblical truths then please....by all means, let me know, I will be delighted to continue.

I will leave you one thought as I have noticed what I think is a basic misunderstanding on your part. All Jews are Israelites.....not all Israelites are Jews. When folks come to that understanding many scriptures begin to make more sense.

Hoping I will hear back from you soon...........

176 posted on 02/29/2008 4:01:32 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

Many Restoration of Israel Passages Refer to the Future Messianic Age. However the Restoration of Twelve Tribes of Israel Literally Took Place in the Golden Age of the Silent Years.

Zechariah, who lived when the nation of Israel, the ten northern tribes, had long ago been lost as a political unit, speaks of the renewal of both Judah and Israel. He speaks of the restoration of the nation as including Israel and uses the synonyms of Joseph and Ephraim to plainly signify he means the ten tribes.

Then God shows Ezekiel that there is a marvelous restoration to look forward to. This nation will rise again and all the tribes, all twelve, will be restored to their land.

It is this portion of the prediction that has posed problems, since only Judah was restored and none of the other tribes were restored as a body politic. To solve this problem many flights into fanciful “last days” or “end times” theories have been proposed. Actually, the solution to the literal restoration of all twelve of the tribes is in verse 19 and there is no need to resort to the fantastic. Except that God’s foreknowledge of future historical events is fantastic! We will look at verse 19 in three different versions.

(Eze. 37:19) I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in my hand. KJV

(Eze. 37:19) I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his companions; and I will put them with it, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in my hand. ASV

(Eze. 37:19) I am going to take the stick of Joseph - which is in Ephraim’s hand - and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick, making them a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand. NIV

The NIV, in this case, is much to be preferred because it makes clear the intent of the Hebrew. That is that the stick that represents the ten northern tribes represents the “Kingdom of Israel.” The stick that represents Judah, Benjamin and Levi is to absorb the first stick and Judah will be left alone and contain, as a restored kingdom, all the tribes.

That does not mean that all tribal identity was lost as can be seen in Luke 2:36. Anna, the prophetess, was of the tribe of Asher. But the tribes were never restored to their land areas as separate political units. The prophecy we are looking at says as much and is the solution to the problem posed. It also does away with the concept of “Ten Lost Tribes.”

The Hebrew is not as clear as the NIV rendering but would be so to a Hebrew-speaking person. The idiom says that the stick of Ephraim is to be given TO the stick of Judah and they will become one stick. The subsequent verses show the intent is that Judah will from now on contain all the tribes within itself and there will be only one nation, not two. Furthermore that nation is to be Judah. Judah will have all the tribes as companions and from henceforth all Israelites will be called Jews no matter what tribe they originate in. We will see that Zechariah viewed the restoration of the nation of Judah in his day in just this way.

(Eze. 37:21) Behold, I will take the children of Israel [all twelve tribes] from among the heathen, where they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land; (Eze. 37:22) And I will make them one nation [namely Judah] in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

The Septuagint translators lived at the time that this fulfillment was a reality (285 B.C.E.). Judah was restored as a nation, the Shekinah presence was long ago restored to the Temple and nation, and all tribes dwelt together under the restored tribe of Judah which had returned from Babylonian captivity in 536 B.C.E. Ephraim and his companions were present but not as a body politic. The ten tribes of Israel ultimately becoming a part of the restored nation of Judah is the subject of chapter 10.

The Septuagint translators felt the passage in Eze. 37:19 referred to Judah being the one nation containing all the tribes. They added the word “Jouda” to the text to make their interpretive translation plain. The Hebrew text of the last part of verse 19 reads, “and they shall be made one stick, and they shall be one in my hand.” The LORD is speaking. In the Septuagint this phrase reads, “and they shall become into one stick in the hand of Judah.”

Because in 285 B.C.E. Judah was restored and did contain the remnant of the tribes, the Septuagint translators may have been influenced by the reality of the fulfillment that was apparent to them, to make the passage plain by substituting “hand of Judah” for “my hand.” However, a reading of the Hebrew text also gives this eventual meaning.

Thus here is the clear prophecy that the literal restoration of all the tribes of Israel would be contained in a single tribe and that tribe would be Judah.

So says Ezekiel here and so indeed did it happen. Consequently, at one stroke, do we dispose of “Anglo-Israel.”

Thanks for playing!


177 posted on 02/29/2008 5:34:40 PM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: RachelFaith; DouglasKC; Ezekiel; William Terrell
Many Restoration of Israel Passages Refer to the Future Messianic Age. However the Restoration of Twelve Tribes of Israel Literally Took Place in the Golden Age of the Silent Years.

Oh? If that is the case who is Our Saviour referring to when He directs the "Twelve" to seek out and evangelize the "Lost Sheep of The House of Israel" [Matthew 10:5-6]? Others would come later (Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, etc.) who would evangelize the Gentiles and the Jews, but Our Lord was quite specific here......don't you think? I even remember Him saying: [Matthew 15:24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He becomes more specific yet when directing Peter (one of the Twelve) to pursue this command when he states in [John 21:15-17] So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Why is it that we find Peter exactly where the Ten Tribes had been exiled (Babylon).....writing to Israelites (foreknowledge of God) as he had been commanded [1 Peter 1:1-2] if you say that the restoration had already happened by the first century? Even Josephus has this to say about the Ten Tribes:

[Antiquities XI, Chapter V, Paragraph 2] And when these Jews had understood what piety the king had towards God, and what kindness he had for Esdras, they were all greatly pleased; nay, many of them took their effects with them, and came to Babylon, as very desirous of going down to Jerusalem; but then the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers. Till now, of course.....means first century....and an immense multitude could mean millions! The two tribes subject to the Romans, of course would be Judah and Benjamin [II Chronicles 11:1] which constituted the Nation of Judah. The Levites were also included.....but not named as they held no property and ministered to the other tribes.

I'll have to answer your "post" item by item as there is so much error in what you have been taught.....but that's quite O.K. as it will also be a learning experience for many lurkers. As you can see, the restoration did not occur during the silent years. We'll discuss Anna of [Luke 2:36] in another installment as I have some things to see to...at the moment.

178 posted on 02/29/2008 6:25:01 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

Lost as in Lost their WAY. Not some pseudo secret missing tribes. You are just as LOST as they were... yet we KNOW you are right here posting.

15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The Lord’s personal mission was to the Jews. Under the first commission his apostles were directed to go only to the Jews (Mt 10:6). It would be impossible to evangelize the Gentiles without setting aside the Jewish customs, the law of Moses, and arousing the bitterest prejudice of the Jews. Hence it was the divine plan that the Son should keep the law blameless during his ministry. It was only when the Jews crucified him that the handwriting of ordinances was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14), the wall of partition (Eph 2:14) between Jews and Gentiles broken down, and all prepared for the Great Commission which bade his disciples go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Mr 16:15).

You are word substituting. Lost sheep is applicable to the individual. Lost TRIBES are a whole different case and totally NOT Christian and NOT Gospel.

This DOES NOT exclude the Gentiles.

What were Jesus’ last words in Matthew’s Gospel?

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

He did go to the Lost Sheep first. But since He did go to them and went to them IN Judea, then that would really undo this inane “Jews R us” Satanic Theology.

What you need to be concerned with is Rev 3:9 - Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;

Word!


179 posted on 02/29/2008 7:19:00 PM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: Diego1618

As for Anna: Anna knew her tribal identity was of the tribe of Asher (Luke 2:36). Paul knew he was of the tribe of Benjamin, a “Jew” and an “Israelite” (Romans 11:1). The New Testament speaks of “Israel” 75 times and uses the word “Jew” 174 times.

After the Babylonian captivity, the terms “Jew” and “Israelite” are used interchangeably. Ezra calls the returning remnant “Jews” 8 times and “Israel” 40 times. (Ezra also speaks of “all Israel”: Ezra 2:70; 3:11; 8:35; 10:25, et al.) Nehemiah uses the term “Jew” 11 times and “Israel” 22 times. Nehemiah too speaks of “all Israel” being back in the land (Nehemiah 12:47). The remnant who returned from Babylon is represented as “the nation” (Malachi 1:1, et al.).

Accompanying some of the legends of the so-called “Ten Lost Tribes” are aspersions on the present State of Israel and the people being regathered in the Land. These various theories such as “British Israelism” are by their nature anti-Semitic because they deny the Jewish people their proper place in the plan of God. Let’s remember that Genesis 12:3 has never been repealed!

Israel is being regathered in the land just as God has announced. There is yet to come an event which will awaken them to realize that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob once again has His hand upon them (Ezekiel 38, 39). I believe this event could happen at any moment.

The Throne of David was promised to the Son of Mary (Luke 1:32). I believe His taking possession of it is on the near horizon.


180 posted on 02/29/2008 7:24:33 PM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: Diego1618

All 12 tribes were represented in the south. God even addresses the 12 tribes in the south: “Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all Israel in Judah and Benjamin....” 2 Chronicles 11:3

The “tribe of Judah” (2 Kings 17:18, et al.) is used idiomatically for the Southern Kingdom. When encountering the tribal designations, it is important to distinguish between the territories allocated to the tribes and the people themselves.


181 posted on 02/29/2008 7:26:59 PM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: GOPPachyderm
We need to repent and ask for forgiveness.

Have you done something bad lately?

182 posted on 02/29/2008 7:31:34 PM PST by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner

Oh no, I’m perfect. I meant for other people who haven’t attained the sinless perfection of my life.

You’re kidding aren’t you? In case you’re wondering, I am kidding. Definitely not perfect here!


183 posted on 02/29/2008 8:11:50 PM PST by GOPPachyderm
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To: RachelFaith; DouglasKC
Zechariah, who lived when the nation of Israel, the ten northern tribes, had long ago been lost as a political unit, speaks of the renewal of both Judah and Israel. He speaks of the restoration of the nation as including Israel and uses the synonyms of Joseph and Ephraim to plainly signify he means the ten tribes.

Yup! He says in verse 19...."these are the horns that scattered Judah & Israel". In chapter 4 he refers to them as "Olive Trees" (Israel and Judah). The same as [Revelation 11:4][Romans 11][Jeremiah 11:16-17].

[Zechariah 8:13] And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong. He is speaking of future events.

You said that Israel had long since been lost as a political unit. During this time, after the return of Judah from Babylon, was when the books of the Kings and Chronicles were written. If you recall [II Kings 17:24] says that "Israel"....the Northern Ten Tribes, were still in Assyria. They weren't lost. Everyone knew where there were. And they were still a viable political unit as the Assyrian Empire disintegrated around 600 B.C. The Israelites of the north, taken captive around 721 B.C. had been on their own for about 100 years when these books (Kings and Chronicles) were written! Many had already begun to migrate as indicated in [Amos 9:9].

They have been referred to as "The Lost Tribes" because they were lost to history these last 2000 years. But.....everyone during the first century and before knew who they were.....and where they were. They were a very viable political unit, and as a body....lived outside the Holy Land.

You may recall my quote from Josephus. You can find it here! [Antiquities of the Jews, Book XI, Chapter 5, Paragraph 2] To reiterate....he says the ten tribes during the first century lived beyond the Euphrates....and were so numerous no one could count them. This sounds like a very viable political unit.

Two paragraphs so far.....two major errors. Israel and Judah were not restored during the silent years and Israel had not been lost as a political unit.

I am still noticing in subsequent posts by you that there is still confusion about who are the Jews and who are the rest of Israel. You seem to be lumping them all together yet so I will repeat All Jews are Israelites....not all Israelites are Jews. The Kingdom of Judah became known as Judea during the first century and you will see that the term Jew used in [Esther 2:5] means in the Hebrew: 3064. Yhuwdiy (yeh-hoo-dee')a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or descendant of Jehudah (i.e. Judah) In [John 4:9] it means in the Greek: 2453. Ioudaios (ee-oo-dah'-yos)as a country); Judaean, i.e. belonging to Jehudah (These two scriptures are simply the first time in both Testaments that the term "Jew" is used) There are other scriptures, of course....in the plural meaning the same thing.

In other words.....folks from the tribe of Naphtali were not Jews. Folks from the tribe of Reuben were not Jews. Folks from the tribe of Dan were not Jews. Folks from the tribe of..................you get the idea? But, folks from the tribe of Judah were Jews and also those of Benjamin and Levi who came to live with Judah.....and were not part of the Assyrian deportation. These three tribes all were known as Jews. As a side matter.....you would be hard pressed today to find "A Jew" living in Modern Day Israel who did not claim to be a descendant from one of these three tribes!

184 posted on 02/29/2008 9:18:36 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618

You may recall my quote from Josephus...

Uhm yeah, but that is extra biblical at best and SATANIC LIES at the most likely.

It is the utter concept of Jews being anyone but Jews that I reject in totality. For all the reasons I have presented.

There isn’t even any NEED for such a crazy theory because the Jews HAVE been regathered in the land.

THAT was the very thing that sinful man could NOT SEE HOW it would come to happen, so they INVENTED this lie about who the Jews were and are.

Now that lie has become even MORE Perverted when it begins to alter the true meaning of the REST of the Gospel.

Which of course is the REAL reason SATAN invented it and put it into the hearts of the unGodly.

Satan knew he would use it to confuse people over the MOST critical point of the 2nd coming....

The IMMINENT RETURN!

There have not been, nor are there now, ANYTHINGS which must happen to precede the return.

The Early Church Expected Christ IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE.

So do I.

I am not looking for ANY SIGNS or other nonsense. A wicked Generation seeks after signs.

I am looking for CHRIST.

And I am aggressively debunking anyone and anything which seeks to put something else in the way of that.

He could come within the very hour right NOW as you read this!


185 posted on 02/29/2008 9:33:00 PM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: RachelFaith
Uhm yeah, but that is extra biblical at best and SATANIC LIES at the most likely.There isn’t even any NEED for such a crazy theory because the Jews HAVE been regathered in the land.THAT was the very thing that sinful man could NOT SEE HOW it would come to happen, so they INVENTED this lie about who the Jews were and are.Now that lie has become even MORE Perverted when it begins to alter the true meaning of the REST of the Gospel.Which of course is the REAL reason SATAN invented it and put it into the hearts of the unGodly.I am not looking for ANY SIGNS or other nonsense. A wicked Generation seeks after signs

I see my original suspicions were correct. In a short space of time you have called me "Satanic; Crazy; Sinful; a Liar; a Pervert; UnGodly; Nonsensical and Wicked".

I have presented a very limited case to you at this point ....of my beliefs. It is apparent that you do not wish to continue as you are exhibiting intense hatred of something you know nothing of. This in itself tells me that the exercise is pointless. It seems most everything is going over your head anyway.

You can take a last shot at me......I won't respond.

[Matthew 7:1-2]

186 posted on 02/29/2008 10:16:24 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: DouglasKC

This is one of the clearest, most well reasoned summaries I’ve seen on this issue. Thanks for posting.

MM (in TX)


187 posted on 02/29/2008 10:34:45 PM PST by MississippiMan
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To: vetvetdoug

What a blessing to read the seven wonderful replies to you. His will be done.


188 posted on 02/29/2008 10:51:57 PM PST by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: HarleyD

Hi Douglas...I know there are different views on the return of Christ. All this pre-, post-, anil-, is too confusing for me. I simply believe that Christ will return, and that’s that. The judgment. It makes everthing rather tidy in my mind.

= = =

Goodness! Harley! You are sounding more reasonable all the time. LOL.

I used to feel that way on first hearing of all the silly notions.

Seems to me, Scripture is moderately clear . . . The judgment seat of Christ for the Believer either happens at the moment of death or it happens at a different time. If a different time, it’s not crystal clear to me when it would be. The Great White Throne judgment appears to happen at the end of the 1,000 year millenial reign but I wouldn’t want to be dogmatic about it.

#################

They change their interpretation to suit current events. Not only that, for them to reject the church as the chosen people of Christ is to reject the heart of the Bible. People can make Revelation say just about anything they want.

= = =

Not my reality, Harley.

Arguable aspects to Revelation, I hold loosely and wait and see what God confirms. Some things seem to be fairly clear.


189 posted on 03/01/2008 12:32:54 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Marysecretary

There’s so much demonic activity on earth now. It’s increasing. We are in the midst of a horrendous spiritual warfare for the soul of our nation and for individual souls who are blinded. Prayer is the only way to break it. M

True!


190 posted on 03/01/2008 12:33:25 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: RachelFaith

And look... there they are.

Are there “some” who aren’t? Sure, always happens that way. Not all Africans are in Africa. Not all Americans are in America. Big whooop. You can’t invent doctrine when the Bible is explicit.

= = =

Excellent post.

Thanks.


191 posted on 03/01/2008 12:36:15 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: RachelFaith

Fascinating post.

Thanks.


192 posted on 03/01/2008 12:39:06 AM PST by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: RachelFaith; Diego1618
The IMMINENT RETURN! There have not been, nor are there now, ANYTHINGS which must happen to precede the return. The Early Church Expected Christ IN THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE. So do I. I am not looking for ANY SIGNS or other nonsense. A wicked Generation seeks after signs. I am looking for CHRIST.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for the return of Christ. I'm certain both diego and I share that same enthusiasm.

However, there are a couple of errors you've made in your philosophy from a biblical viewpoint.

You said "a wicked generation seeks after signs" which implies that anyone who tries to discern the signs of the end are doing something they shouldn't. But that's not what Christ meant at all.

Mat 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would show them a sign from heaven.
Mat 16:2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
Mat 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather today: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
Mat 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah. And he left them, and departed.

The pharisee's and sadducees wanted Christ to show a sign that he was the messiah. All the signs were already there, but they couldn't see them. The only sign Jesus would give to show them he was the messiah was this:

Mat 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonah:
Mat 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So your statement doesn't match the meaning Christ attached to the same words.

As far as the signs of the times, Jesus was quite clear that we are to be diligent and to discern them. Matthew 24 is a summation of end time events. In it Christ tells us a number of signs and events to watch out for. He then says:

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

As far as deception and Christians, the biggest deception will be played on those who DO NOT know scripture. Those who do not know the signs that God revealed to his servants and rely on men, tradition, or their own human reasoning to determine the signs of the times.

At the same time, the return of Christ *could* be imminent. End time events can happen rapidly. God can slow down or speed up his prophetic timetable for his own purposes. So I don't think there's a contradiction between end time prophecies that need to be fulfilled and the imminent return of Christ.

193 posted on 03/01/2008 1:41:46 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: RachelFaith; Diego1618
ANY, whatsoever... about “Who is X % Jewish or descended from whom.. is not about GOD’S MIRACLE of restoring His people, but is INSTEAD a debate about genes, and linage... which IS RACE! Ya follow that? It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any belief about LOST TRIBES without considering RACE as the factor. Thus the entire debate is racIST. Just on the face of it. DEFACTO!

Reading some of your posts, it's apparent you don't really understand this doctrine.

1. Up until the new covenant any blessings or promises given by God to Israel were only applicable to physical Israelites. However, everyone understands that under the new covenant gentiles have been "grafted" into Israel:

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Gentiles, before Christ, were without hope. Strangers from God's promises. Now one DOES NOT have to be a racial Israelite to partake in God's promises. Black, white, red, green, blue...it doesn't matter. All who hold to Christ are subject to God's promises.

2. There WERE physical blessings promised to Israel. When God makes promises, he WILL honor them. He cannot lie. But these physical blessings ALSO apply to racial Israelites who just by virtue of their relationship to Abraham take part in them. Some may be horrible people, but God made promises to Abraham that MUST be fulfilled.

3. Mathematics seem to dictate that there would now be a VAST number of Israelites descended from Abraham. Many many more than simply the ones who identify themselves as "Jews" today. Diego has done an admirable job of pointing out that the bible makes it very clear that there is a difference between the tribe of Judah (Jews) and the other tribes. We KNOW that these other tribes were apart from Jews in biblical times.

4. The United States, Great Britain and many other nations have, throughout most of their history, been Christian. The United States and Great Britain seem to have fulfilled many of the physical promises given by God to Israel. I find it very likely that the vast majority of people who comprise the United States are descendants of Abraham. And I'm not talking about just whites. There's been so much interbreeding that a black can be more of a physical Israelite than some white appearing person maybe. But that doesn't even really matter because as pointed out a non-Christian that is white, black, red, green or blue may be benefactors of the physical blessings, but still be strangers from the promise of eternal life which is only given through Christ.

For more information about physical promises see God's Commitment to Abraham and his Descendents

Good luck and God bless in your studies.

194 posted on 03/01/2008 2:21:37 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: RachelFaith
Did you read and study the fragments you use as evidence, being unconvinced either way, and their sheer weight forced a belief on you out of logical necessity? Or were you presented with the belief system, convinced of its truth, then found the fragments to support its demands?

195 posted on 03/01/2008 7:39:54 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Diego1618

I have called the DOCTRINE Satantic and Lies and Perverted and unGodly. You have called this Hatred.

That is the only part you got right. For I do HATE all things evil, satanic, perverted and unGodly. God HATES it too.

As for taking things personal... hey that’s between you and God and yer own conscience... guilty or otherwise, I haven’t and won’t say.

Like Harry Truman’s famous quote... “I just givem the truth and they THINK it’s hell”.


196 posted on 03/01/2008 10:06:35 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: DouglasKC

No Doug,

That is the entire problem. There are only three people on Earth. Those not looking for anything because they don’t know anything. Those looking for SIGNS. And those looking for CHRIST.

You cannot BE in two or more camps on this one. This is WHY this False Doctrine is SOOOO BAD!!

You are telling people “Christ ain’t coming yet because X Y & Z haven’t happened yet”

And the Bible is clear on that:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of His coming?... II Peter 3:3-4

“And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” (Luke 21:36)


197 posted on 03/01/2008 10:13:02 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: DouglasKC

Again Doug, that is the false claim. That is why there is the curse against claiming to be a Jew. You are NOT defacto entitiled to that Blessing. You don’t get it. You have a superior blessing or an inferior one (if you want to look at it so) but you (assuming you ARE born again of water and the spirit) have a DIFFERENT covenant and blessing. Period.

And this false doctrine teaches TWO EVILS:

#1 it says there are signs we are waiting for... BZZZZT! Wrong, there are no signs, He’s on his way RIGHT NOW GET YER AFFAIRS IN ORDER!

#2 you get to BE Jews and just in case yer a little too comfy in yer sin, hey, no worries, everyone is a Jew now anyway so relax!

That’ll send a whole LOT of folks to Hell... Maybe not YOU... maybe you get the big picture, but yer NOT helping the unsaved find Christ by telling them they are covered by the Covenant of Abraham, NOR are you helping Christians with their rewards by telling them to look for SIGNS FIRST!


198 posted on 03/01/2008 10:19:05 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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To: DouglasKC
"Seven Prophecies That Must Be Fulfilled Before Jesus Christ's Return,"

I always wondered about such Bible Prophecies.

Couldn't God just amend them or make new ones at his whim and if he does, how will we know?

If a Bible Prophet comes forward Today he is deemed a nut job.

This has always worried me. How do we know God has not sent someone with New Words to live by and we just aren't listening.

199 posted on 03/01/2008 10:19:05 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: William Terrell

I am well read Will. We read indeed and trained to deal with Cults and Evil Doctrine. Count on it.


200 posted on 03/01/2008 10:19:59 AM PST by RachelFaith (Doing NOTHING... about the illegals already here IS Amnesty !!)
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