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Opinion on the Crusades
My Own Mind | 26 february 2008 | Shrierwasright

Posted on 02/26/2008 3:41:15 AM PST by Shirerwasright

OK, I am new on FreeRepublic, so if I am doing this wrong, I'll appreciate tolerance.

I had the most interesting discussion with my son last evening. It seems in his Non Western Civ class his professor pointed out how Pope Urbana was the cause of all our problems with the radical islamic nutjobs.

According to him if we had never attempted to drive the muslims back to their land for extention of power of the papalcy we would not have the problems we have.

When I asked my son what he thought about this point, he said, "well, Dad there is some validity in it"

So my question is should I laugh or cry? Just joking, but seriously, what is wrong with our educational system?


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: crusades; inquiry; thecrusades; thomasfmadden; thomasmadden
Help me out here folks, should I believe we are doomed as a civilization?
1 posted on 02/26/2008 3:41:17 AM PST by Shirerwasright
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To: Shirerwasright
I hope you are aware that the Muslims conquered Spain in the 600's, invaded France in the 700's, harassed the Byzantine empire for centuries, devastated the Byzantine army (and killed the emperor) at Manzikert in 1077 and seized the Holy Land. At that point, the Muslims began shutting Christians off from pilgrimages, or harassed and killed Christians who tried to travel the traditional routes.

In short, 400 years of mostly unanswered aggression from Muslims against Christians. It was at that point that Pope Urban called for a Crusade to free the Holy Land. Then followed about 200 years of Christian warfare to push back the Muslims. Eventually, Europe tired of this and stopped the crusades. The Muslims went on to destroy the Byzantine empite in 1453, and took Constantinople. Further aggression saw Muslims in eastern Europe and as late as 1683, they laid seize to the city of Vienna in Central Europe. The concept of jihad (holy war) is still very much part of the Muslim thinking. But we haven't had a crusade in about 700 years.

Anyone who acts like the Crusades is some sort of moral nadir of human civilization is woefully ignorant. They were brief defensive wars waged against an enemy that has wage aggressive war against the West for 13 centuries.

2 posted on 02/26/2008 3:52:25 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Shirerwasright

You can tell your son that if Pope Urbana had not Crusaded against the murderous Mahometan hoardes, and if Charles Martel had not stopped them at Tours, he and his “professor” probably would never have been born, and everybody in Europe would be under the boot heel of Sharia law.

Oh, and even if he were born, all the girls would be wearing burqas and he would be subject to DEATH if he “dishonored” any girl.

And with men being allowed to have several wives, and the population being roughly 50-50 male-female, his chances of finding a mate and passing on his genes would be proportionately diminished.

That’s one of the reasons it’s so easy for the Mahometans to find suicide bombers.


3 posted on 02/26/2008 3:55:47 AM PST by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Shirerwasright
should I believe we are doomed as a civilization?

Yeah, pretty much.

No, that was the fact that I'm up and it's before 9:00 AM talking.

Ask yours son's professor if it's our fault that the Pentagon, the WTC buildings, and our dirt in Pennsylvania got in the way of the airplanes. Ask him if we should have just let the Muslims have whatever land they wanted, like Israel, Spain, France, Italy, Austria, and all the Mediterranean Sea.

Ask him if attack, wars of conquest, and imperialism are virtuous while self-defense is vicious.

Ask him if he's that stupid naturally or does he have to practice or take steroids?

Then buy yourself, your son, and the professor one of my bumper stickers. They are guaranteed to send liberals into orbit.

Caution, do not put them on your car if you don't want to get keyed, or have your tires flattened. I recommend sidearms, cause this bumper sticker is guaran-damn-teed to make your life less boring.


Crusader Bumper Sticker

4 posted on 02/26/2008 4:08:43 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Shirerwasright

We ARE doomed!! The Muslims conquered Europe all the way to VIENNA!!! We should thank God for the Crusaders every day!


5 posted on 02/26/2008 4:11:57 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Shirerwasright

“his professor”

Nuff Said!


6 posted on 02/26/2008 4:29:21 AM PST by wolfcreek (Powers that be will lie like Clintons and spend like drunken McCains to push their Globalist agenda.)
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To: Shirerwasright
I had the most interesting discussion with my son last evening. It seems in his Non Western Civ class his professor pointed out how Pope Urbana was the cause of all our problems with the radical islamic nutjobs.

The Problem with western civilzation is that we allow Liberal professors like this to get tenure.

I just finished reading Robert Spencers "Politically incorrect guide to Islam and the Crusades. I strongly advise you and your son to get a copy of this book. It will give both of you the facts and hopefully give your son some ammunition the next time the prof says something stupid.

7 posted on 02/26/2008 4:39:50 AM PST by verga (I'm not an apologist I just play one on TV)
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To: Shirerwasright
It seems in his Non Western Civ class his professor pointed out how Pope Urbana

If true that "professor" needs an education. No such animal as a "Pope Urbana". There have been several Popes who chose the name Urban. the first being Urban I, 222-230 and the last being Urban VIII, 1623-1644. Either the "professor" is a nitwit or your son needs to pay better attention and take better notes.

Most likely he is referring to Urban II, 1088-1099: "Deus le volt!". For further edification he should read "A History of the Crusades" by Steven Runciman.

8 posted on 02/26/2008 4:56:42 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Shirerwasright
Tell your son an opinion is only as good as the information it's founded upon. Ask him to read this short article and compare it to the professors statement.

The Real History of the Crusades written by Thomas F. Madden, Professor,Director, Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies, Saint Louis University

9 posted on 02/26/2008 4:58:43 AM PST by Varda
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To: verga

Think Kosovo. Think Belgrade. Think Sarajevo. Think Armenian genocide.

Now think moslem ‘peace’ initiative. And the Jews. And CHristians. People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab) were never given any kind of tolerance except by paying for it. Remember what that mullah in Britain said.......”It’s OK to kill a Christian like a cow.”

You can also look up some of the more violent suras (some posted here on FR) and suggest your son request an explanation for the meaning. Ordinarily, it’s the suras on the clot or on light that are used in college classes. I speak from personal experience.

Rent el Cid and watch some of the newer movies about Sarajevo.

If the prof gets mad, your son either goes with the flow or risks failing the class.


10 posted on 02/26/2008 5:05:28 AM PST by combat_boots (She lives! 22 weeks, 9.5 inches. Go, baby, go!)
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To: Varda

Thomas Madden - who I had the pleasure of meeting several years ago - has a short book covering the history of the crusades in the same vein as that article. I highly recommend it:

http://www.slu.edu/departments/history/images/mcrus2.jpg

http://www.slu.edu/departments/history/madden.htm


11 posted on 02/26/2008 5:18:38 AM PST by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Thanks, I’ll look into it.


12 posted on 02/26/2008 5:31:52 AM PST by Varda
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To: Shirerwasright

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Crusades-Guides/dp/0895260131


13 posted on 02/26/2008 5:33:16 AM PST by Greg F (Do you want a guy named Hussein to fix your soul? Michelle Obama thinks you do.)
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To: Shirerwasright

You should file a hate crime complaint against the commie pinko bastard.


14 posted on 02/26/2008 5:46:44 AM PST by Cheverus
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To: Westbrook
And with men being allowed to have several wives, and the population being roughly 50-50 male-female, his chances of finding a mate and passing on his genes would be proportionately diminished.

That’s one of the reasons it’s so easy for the Mahometans to find suicide bombers.

That could also explain why they're so angry all the time. ;o)

15 posted on 02/26/2008 6:07:49 AM PST by al_c (Avoid the consequences of erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity)
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To: Mad Dawg
Here's another graphic for you ...


16 posted on 02/26/2008 6:09:52 AM PST by al_c (Avoid the consequences of erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity)
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To: Shirerwasright

I have thought for a while now that the catholic church is going to be called into action once more to defend freedom from these pagans.

I knwo we have many seperated brethen prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with us, but I really think God is going to call the Catholics forward to sort this out at some point.

I have shared this with my sons - I really think it will happen in their life time. I am not talking about the current wot I am talking about a true crusade.


17 posted on 02/26/2008 7:51:50 AM PST by CTK YKC
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To: al_c

Where? I see nuzzink!


18 posted on 02/26/2008 9:02:55 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg

That’s odd. I see it just fine. Are you getting a red x?


19 posted on 02/26/2008 9:08:28 AM PST by al_c (Avoid the consequences of erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity)
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To: Shirerwasright
The only trouble with (at least the first two) Crusades is that they didn't finish the job!

Had the Muslim forces been destroyed back then, the world would be a decidedly different - and better - place today. Things are a bit different now. There are no clearly defined enemy combatants most of the time these days, and no Christian can just go around killing people at will just because they look "potentially" threatening. If the Muslims are stupid enough to want to have a full-scale ultimate showdown, and go all out on frontal assaults in more-or-less conventional settings, and thus identify themselves as fair-game combatants, then we could clearly defeat them with ease. Europe could thus be saved and - possibly - Islam itself could be curbed and eventually driven to extinction.

However, I doubt that the Muslims will be that stupid, and, given that they are already in place in large numbers throughout Europe, things don't look too good in the long run. The Muslims might not be too stupid to identify themselves as combatants and their goal as conquest, but the Europeans can be relied upon to be more than stupid enough to make up the difference! They brought the Muslims in to begin with in order to create their current states of leisure. They have next to no children, while the Muslims are outbreeding them many times over. They have an epidemic loss of the faith which was their Christian heritage, while the Muslims can't wait to die and get after their 72 virgins. All of this doesn't bode well at all.

All this is by way of answering your question: "Yes, ultimately, it's very likely."

20 posted on 02/26/2008 9:16:25 AM PST by magisterium
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To: combat_boots

***Rent el Cid and watch some of the newer movies about Sarajevo.****

EL CID is now out on DVD!
EL CID is now out on DVD!

Completely restored! It is BEAUTIFUL!

I got my copy at Wal-M**t!


21 posted on 02/26/2008 2:17:36 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Only infidel blood can quench Muslim thirst-- Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri)
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To: Shirerwasright

Welcome. Having a child at college today certainly causes concern.

The camel’s nose got into our education tent many decades ago. On our college campuses, anything anti-Christian is eagerly embraced by the prof’s and staff, and self-annihilation is of no consequence, apparently. But then, neoliberalism is a mental disorder involving cognitive dissonance. God help America.


22 posted on 02/26/2008 4:42:36 PM PST by polymuser (Those who believe in something eventually prevail over those who believe in nothing.)
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To: Shirerwasright

Ask your son why it was, and is, OK for Islam to invade a nation, but it is not OK for other religions or nations to attempt to drive them back out.

No religion has ever been spread through military action the same way Islam was.


23 posted on 02/26/2008 6:44:54 PM PST by SlapHappyPappy
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To: verga

Read it already, gave it to my son a dinner this evening to see if he can discuss with the prof.


24 posted on 02/26/2008 8:22:41 PM PST by Shirerwasright (Liberalism continues to erode the foundations of America)
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To: Shirerwasright

Someone is always making excuses for Muslim hordes. It is never their fault.


25 posted on 02/26/2008 9:53:49 PM PST by ladyinred
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To: Shirerwasright
I had the most interesting discussion with my son last evening. It seems in his Non Western Civ class his professor pointed out how Pope Urbana was the cause of all our problems with the radical islamic nutjobs.

If it weren't for men like Pope Urbana, we'd all be radical islamic nutjobs.

26 posted on 02/26/2008 9:57:46 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Westbrook

>>You can tell your son that if Pope Urbana had not Crusaded against the murderous Mahometan hoardes, and if Charles Martel had not stopped them at Tours, he and his “professor” probably would never have been born, and everybody in Europe would be under the boot heel of Sharia law.<<

Concise and straight to the point. I;ve always believed that Charles Martel was the turning point in the Crusades, and if he didn’t stop the MOOSLUMS at Tours, even the concept of freedom’ would be pointless.

Never thought I would think so highly of a Frenchman before.


27 posted on 02/26/2008 10:03:27 PM PST by max americana
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To: ClearCase_guy

I am well aware of history, I was trying to point out how pathetic the position of my son’s prof was and how revisionist history is be pushed by the communists/liberals professors in our colleges today.

Thanks though


28 posted on 02/27/2008 3:08:37 AM PST by Shirerwasright (Liberalism continues to erode the foundations of America)
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To: max americana

Alas if you go to France now you can see how all their men have been de-nutted by the politically correct diversity crowd.

There will never be another Martel, sad to say.


29 posted on 02/27/2008 3:08:37 AM PST by Shirerwasright (Liberalism continues to erode the foundations of America)
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