Skip to comments.Former Southern Baptist Pastor Now a Traveling Crusader for the Catholic Church
Posted on 03/01/2008 5:51:31 AM PST by NYer
click here to read article
When we revert to corrupt communication coming out of our mouths (as in your BS comment)...
YOU are the one posting the corrupt communication, just as I quoted it. I am merely calling it what it is: bullshit.
Catholicism is last safe bigotry!
“Anti-Catholicism is the last ‘safe’ bigotry!”
Are you or have you ever been a practicing Catholic?
I dout that.
Protestant numbers have been harder to come by and are sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church; indeed, many congregations are independent, which makes reporting even more difficult.
The fact that priesthood numbers are plummeting suggests there arent that many to leave in the first place!
There are thousands of priests, monks and other religious. Even one leaving would make news. How many former Catholics in your congregation are also former seminarians? The point I am trying to make here is that there is a large influx of former Protestant ministers into the Catholic Church. These individuals are highly educated in theology. Contrast that with the Catholics who leave, most of whom are ignorant of their Catholic faith.
Sorry LS, I must point out a very protestant error you are making.
It is not “your theology” it is the biblical and traditional theology of the Church.
You all have “your theology” which is why you have some 40,000 splinters of separatists of schematics and why average time in a congregation without changing is three years.
Sure, as my 8 little Theophilista's will tell you: "God freely wills whatsoever comes to pass."
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
Canned response: “Look! We found one guy. Hold him up! Make HIM an example!”
We will gladly take all your Catholics who see the light! :)
Yep. We have “our theology.” And you have your “church.” I could say, one worships God, another worships a system.
OK. So you agree celibacy is the normative state for the unmarried?
I said that DISALLOWING (as the Roman Catholic Church does in the case of its priests) marriage forces men,
You must be referring to Latin Rite Catholics. Eastern Rite Catholics and Eastern Orthodox ordain married men. I will point out these men are not being forced to do anything. There is a 4-6 year discernment period they go through to validate if they truly have the calling.
who MAY have made youthful choices for the wrong reasons
No doubt there are a small percentage of Priests who go through the formation period, get ordained and them fall to temptation.
REALITY has produced the revolting developments that have cost RCC members (ordinary hard-working people) millions of dollars.
The REALITY is the small percentage homosexuals who were ordained as priests should have been screened out to begin with. Thats the root of the problem. That problem is being addressed.
No, you dont actually get it, you cant really get it from the vantage point of any other person until you walk a few steps in their shoes.
So what is it I dont get and whose shoes do I need to walk, in? You spout off opinions about a celibate priesthood being abnormal. So Ill ask, have you ever been a Catholic Priest? Have you ever had a conversation with a Catholic Priest? If not, you dont actually get it, you cant really get it from the vantage point of any other person until you walk a few steps in their shoes
Tell you what is to be believed? - The Roman Catholic Church hierarchy and mans tradition have already done that . Youll have to research that yourself if you still have questions.
As I thought, you dont have an answer.
The standard Roman Catholics answer to any comment on the centuries old trails of rivers of blood and abuses is just the standard oh, yes, there have been abuses - but, oh well, they ALL have done it!.
The Catholic Church is comprised of sinners and Saints. What about your church?
The light they see is that of an oncoming train. You can have them. For starters I give you Kennedy, Pelosi and Kerry. It would also be good to give you a Prince of the Church so Ill have Cardinal Mahoney get in touch with you.
Every saint in our church is also a sinner...
...including the blessed mother of Jesus.
OK. Sounds like we go to the same Church
...including the blessed mother of Jesus.
Mary was a potential sinner who was redeemed by God from the moment of her conception so that she never fell into actual sin.
Didn’t know that was SOP, but you seem to have found the thread just fine.
Hey, was that an acknowledgment that Catholics are Christians? And b/t/w, the truth isn't unChristian.
This is a new twist. I have never seen a reference to Michael Combie being a Baptist pastor before, much less a Southern Baptist pastor. Previously he has always said that he was a former Protestant pastor or a Pentecostal Protestant Pastor.
I think that Anna Krestyn has made a mistake in referring to him as a former Southern Baptist pastor.
Mel was correct when he said that "Independent Baptist Churches that have the most problems with Catholics."
For the most part Baptists are indifferent about Catholics, just as most Catholics are indifferent about Baptists. The only time one comes to the attention of the other is through sensationalized stories, mostly from the media.
Because of the sensationalism, it is only in our most radical views that we take notice of each other. You see Baptists speaking about the whore of Babylon and we see Catholics venerating a piece of toast. We see them so often we began to consider them the norm rather than the exception to the other's faith. While there is no doubt that there are Baptists that are anti-Catholic, Mr. Cumbie does neither side nor God any favors when he paints with such a broad brush. We all need to remember that good stories make for poor sales in the media.
***Disallowing marriage is ABNORMAL and scripturally condemned, and disobeying clear scripture always causes problems. ***
Take it up with Saint Paul, then. He openly told about himself being celibate, and that it was a preferred state of being.
***I realized I was not a Protestant - and a lifetime of observation of organized religion and a lot of its rotten fruit - Ive decided that Im just a Christian - period ***
How did you arrive at your beliefs; how do you interpret Scripture; how do you recognize the metaphor from the literal?
I know more Catholics that have left the denomination for another Protestant that the reverse, but I live in the south.
All that and the apparent worship of persons other than Christ. Like praying to Mary and other saints. Bible say put no other Gods before God. I do not hate Catholics just do not feel they follow scripture 100% but fall back on mad made traditions when convenient.
Plus the weddings are just too long :)
Most non Catholics who join the Church do so for the theology.
Most Catholics who leave the Church do so for personal ease.
This statement is very misleading on many different levels.
First, since his audience is Catholic, many may presume that the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" he refers to are the "Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit" as given in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Those being: wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel, fortitude, piety and fear of God. They are not.
He is speaking of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:1-14, 27-30, Romans 12:6-8 and Ephesians 4:11. Most Baptist believe that some or all of these gifts ceased to be (Cessationism) after the death of the Apostles.
Very few Baptists (and no Southern Baptists that I know) of are total censationists (Consistent Cessationists) whom believe than none of the gifts still apply. Though in his statement Mr. Cumbie implies that Southern Baptists hold this position.
The vast majority of Southern Baptist would hold that the "charismatic" gifts such as speaking in tongues, healing and prophecy no longer exist. But there are still some Southern Baptists that do not hold to any type of censationism at all.
Then I will pose the same question to you as I did to LS. How many of them are former priests or religious? The influx of Protestants into the Catholic Church is filled with hundreds - hundreds - of former Protestant ministers, with degrees in theology.
I will submit that minister means nothing. There are handfuls of minister that have gotten out of seminary that once in a church preach a mixture of their own beliefs and watered down Bible so not to offend anyone so I look upon them as weak in their beliefs anyway.
All I knew of except one were just good family folks who wanted more scripture with less pomp and circumstance. The one priest I know left the church but I did not know him well enough to ask why.
It's like Orthodox Jews becoming Reformed Jews......much EASIER...easier rules for sure.
Easier for whom? Most of the Catholics that I know sin without any regard and a couple times a year go and give a confession and start over again, plus vote for known abortionists. Where are the rules? To be fair the Protestants do the same and just pray for forgiveness on an altar call, in private, or when caught.
What is an altar call? and yes, EVERYONE sins!
At the end of a Baptist service the minister asks for anyone who wants to be saved or is saved and needs to come down front and be counseled or pray at the altar to come.
DISALLOWING MARRIAGE is abnormal and not the place of any human being to make laws concerning another. Of course, Paul advised that we not marry because in marriage we would have tribulation. There is NT scripture that condemns the sects that would come later “forbidding marriage” and that we were to stay away from those. If the priests were allowed to marry after they become priests, it would probably solve a lot of the sexual problems amongst priests in the Catholic Church.
I am 61 years old. I have been through too much in a lifetime to even try to go into the amount of detail it would take to explain how I arrived at my beliefs.
For starters, it probably began centuries before I was born. My people were French Huguenot - Maupins - who were driven out of France by Catholic priests who were slaughtering and persecuting the Huguenot Protestants there in that era. They found sanctuary in Holland, and then in England where they gained land grants in America from the King of England for their service to the crown. So, you see, Catholic priests have always had a goodly number of rotten apples amongst their numbers.
From a personal perspective, I’ve seen enough of the Protestant preacher and wife power couple pocketing two-thirds of the total church income (with the blessings of a fearful congregation not wishing to cross a “man of God”). Then there was my mother-in-law introducing me to the “charismatic movement” back in the 70’s and 80’s, until I questioned the “get rich quick with Jesus” basic foundation of what the prosperity teachers were hawking. - Then, later, there were the few years I spent in the Greek Orthodox Church which labeled itself as more the American Orthodox Church - at first - then slowly, every time the bishop came over from Syria, or wherever, the services began to get more and more Greek in nature, and to center more on the Virgin Mary than upon Jesus Christ. I realized that I wasn’t physically able to stand for a three hour service every week, and more importantly, I realized I WASN’T GREEK! Just as I am not ROMAN either!
This is just a brief synopsis of where I am and how I got here. As to the exterior, I have chosen to dress modestly and wear the Christian headcovering that Paul also taught.
I realize there isn’t a perfect solution to “where to go for fellowship with the Church”, so I just fellowship with those who call upon the name of Christ whenever I can - but so far, the unstable “preacher centered” fellowships I’ve found lately are usually in a state of some sort of chaos or the other. So, I go along and do the best I can daily.
I choose to wear no label, but hope that the Lord and anyone I might come in contact with would see me as a simple Christian person in word and deed, in spirit and in truth.
You either pray at the altar ( from self and God ), briefly talk with pastor about a problem you are having or make an appointment to see after service, you announce you are transferring your membership from one Baptist Church to this one, or publicly accept Christ in front of Church.
There was one “Reformed” poster on here who claimed Protestants don’t have altars, since there’s no need for sacrifice anymore.
Baptist and Methodist Churches I have been in have an altar in the from on either side of the pulpit.
***If the priests were allowed to marry after they become priests, it would probably solve a lot of the sexual problems amongst priests in the Catholic Church.***
All the studies I’ve seen indicate that it wouldn’t. Plus, the priests that I’ve talked to don’t think it would help either.
***So, I go along and do the best I can daily.
I choose to wear no label, but hope that the Lord and anyone I might come in contact with would see me as a simple Christian person in word and deed, in spirit and in truth.***
And may God bless you; as He blesses us all.
These are classical examples of what we call "Cafeteria Catholics" or "CINOs". They do not read the encyclicals issued by the popes and ignore the teachings of the Magisterium, preferring to pick and choose those doctrines they want to follow. Essentially, their consciences are either poorly formed or they exercise God's gift of 'free will'. This is not unique to Catholics! It is far more prevalent in the Protestant Churches; hence the explosion of 30,000+ denominations that don't agree on what Scripture teaches.
To be fair the Protestants do the same and just pray for forgiveness on an altar call, in private, or when caught.
Altar call? I have never seen an altar in a Protestant Church.
There is usually a permanent table below the pulpit right in front of the pulpit where the sacrament of unleavened bread and either grape juice or wine (signifying the body and blood of Christ) are laid and served from regularly in most Protestant church houses. The table on which the sacrifice is laid would rightly be called an altar.
"signifying" is the Key word, isn't it. Our Eucharist IS the Body and Blood of Christ and he DEMANDED that we take and EAT His Body and Blood.....it's in the Bible...John 6:51-58....look it up.
I am blessed to be associated with a Bible believing and strictly accountable church.
What makes you think I do not regard the body and blood as REAL? If it is real to God, then who am I to declare it not; and I am not saying it is not? It is a mystery and we sully the subject with doubtful disputations.
Oh, I’m sure there are many of the Catholic persuasion who believe it has to be fed to them by a priest who has been laid hands upon by this and that bishop who has been laid hands on by this or that Pope, of course going all the way back to Peter. The rock on which Christ builds His church is the man, any person, who recognizes Him as the Christ, the Son of the Living God. That is my belief, and it is, I daresay, probably just as strong as yours to the contrary. A building that is supposedly built over the bones of a man is, in my thinking, a building. Christ is the Rock, the Chief Cornerstone, and there is, to my belief no other chief rock or stone (that the builders (Scribes & Pharisees) rejected) . . and we are living stones comprising the Church.
Christ really was a humble man; actually, He DEMANDED very little - I cannot remember any reference in the NT where he demanded anyone to bow down before Him. That’s enough to make me want to bow down before Him.
I said “Christ really was a humble man; actually he DEMANDED very little -” In the scripture, Christ TOLD THEM (not demanded) that they would have to eat of His body and drink of His blood, a hard saying in that time - a mystery containing the sacrament of bread and wine (the Passover) and a whole lot more, reading and obeying the Word for another thing and incorporating this into our lives. (I will be observing Passover next month at a Christian Passover supper, when it is time for Passover.)
How is that initial statement worthy of name-calling by you?
I am not a Roman Catholic. Many people do not choose to be Roman Catholics; why does that render them targets of name-calling by you?
I know you surely mean well. There are Church of Christ people who mean well. There are Greek Orthodox who mean well. There are a Baptists who mean well. There are Mormons who mean well - and most of them think any of those who aren’t in their club are going straight to Hell. . and they are as adamant in that belief as you are in yours . . I cannot be all those things to please all those different sects; there aren’t enough hours in the day or years in a life.
So - relax is what I think would be a good thing to do.
I’m about half way through the anthology of her letters. Yes, you’re right, it’s interesting to see how she thinks. She disects things, cuts right through to the ultimate meaning. Interesting that she read Aquinas for 20 minutes each night before bed!
Amen you too. I am hoping to go to one of Cumbie’s seminars if he gets to NJ or Eastern PA.
he’s a laff riot. Seriously, his CD’s are really good, esp. for Baptists. Pass the grape juice.
Actually, when asked by the young man, the scriptural reply was” repent, and be baptized.”
The New Testament never uses the phrase “ accept J.C. as your personal saviour.” That terminology comes more from the 20th century and Americanized Tent revival meetings.
Catholics are closer to 6th chapter of Gospel of John than other denominations.
Catholics don't understand the 6th Chapter of John...
You should come down to sunny Florida :-) Ill be attending The Florida Catholic Mens Conference on April 19th. The featured speakers are Bishop Galeone, Michael Cumbie, Scott Hahn and Tim Staples.
Welcome to Freerepublic!