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Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?
RidleyReport.com ^

Posted on 03/11/2008 8:32:50 AM PDT by Dada Orwell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrVup9Dl4U

For over twenty years, "Patriot Pastor" Garrett Lear has strode the halls of New Hampshire's legislature...serving as a voice for his faith and his Revolutionary War ancestors. Today he talks with us about Real ID, the liberty deficit among Christians and his colorful outfit. Pastor Lear's church is in Wakefield, New Hampshire.

What do *you* think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: 666; mob; motb; nh; pastor; realid; rfid
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1 posted on 03/11/2008 8:32:51 AM PDT by Dada Orwell
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To: Dada Orwell

I don’t know about that but it is a way for big brother to keep tabs on you more than he can now. In the movie Minority Report there is a scene where Cruise is walking in a mall area and eye scanners pick up his eye and ID’s him and personalize all advertisements to his name. IT is coming.

Not to mention he is constantly followed by the government.

I for one will never be marked nor will my “at home” children.

If you think they don’t keep tabs in you if you own a satellite dish they can detect what shows you are watching and when. They also have records of every website you visit and email you send. Yes I am a conspiracy theorist.


2 posted on 03/11/2008 8:39:11 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Dada Orwell
Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?

Because most Christians realize that paranoia about "the Mark" has been around for ages, and it has never panned out and just makes those who jump on the paranoia look foolish. With the exception of those who follow Preteristic Eschatology and believe "the Mark" mentioned in revelation was a direct contemporary reference to branding applied to all slaves in Rome to legalize their ability to work for their masters, then very few instances have legitimate cases.

Be it the social security number, bar codes, driver's licenses, credit cards, RFID, realID, whatever, every case that people claimed at the time was "the Mark" lacked one important element- what it had to do with turning one's back on God.

3 posted on 03/11/2008 8:40:05 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: Dada Orwell

http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschatology.html


4 posted on 03/11/2008 8:40:19 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Romney will get the VP nod - or else.)
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Apocalypse Now...?
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/revdate.html


5 posted on 03/11/2008 8:44:26 AM PDT by Matchett-PI (Romney will get the VP nod - or else.)
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To: Dada Orwell
People should actually READ the RealID law. It is so far away from the mark of the beast that any association with such is pure hysterics. The law says, the Federal government will only accept IDs issued from the different states, if they meet certain criteria. So if you wish to engage with the Federal government, you have to use either a state who's ID includes the security features required by the Federal government .... or, you get a Federal ID (Passport, military ID, etc).
6 posted on 03/11/2008 8:44:48 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Dada Orwell

OF COURSE the REAL ID

is a precursor and a close one at that,

to the Mark of The Beast.

The chip implant will be the final stage—is the final stage alreay for Mexican bureaucrats . . . some law enforcement groups in the USA etc.

There was a big semi-sized van one could get implanted in at a recent Dolphin’s game . . . with lots of advertising hoopla about it at the game, IIRC.

I suspect a number of Christians are in lala land; asleep; clueless; looking the other way; hoping against hope it won’t be on their watch; . . . and no small number feeling accurately that it’s going to be anyway—so why fight it.

Certainly it’s going to be anyway. Still, some fighting it could delay the final stage some, probably. Not certainly.

And, it’s good to fight for the good and against evil.

However, putting the same time and energies into drawing folks into God’s Love and The Kingdom is the wiser use of time and resources, imho.

AND THAT COULD WELL INCLUDE WARNING FOLKS about what’s coming even though they may well think one crazy. When the boom lowers, Holy Spirit will cause them to remember and they can yet again choose life over death; Eternal Life over eternal isolation from God.


7 posted on 03/11/2008 8:45:04 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dada Orwell

I think we’ll know it when we see it.

Interesting thing is that the bible is very clear. It does not say to fight the mark. It just says to not get it. At least that implies that it is volunary.

It is interesting that the bible is all about the individual and his relationship with God and man. We humans always want to group ourselves together as causes to fight stuff.


8 posted on 03/11/2008 8:47:52 AM PDT by RobRoy (I'm confused. I mean, I THINK I am, but I'm not sure. But I could be wrong about that.)
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To: Resolute Conservative

A question . . . [BTW, I agree almost wholesale]

with DIRECTV . . . seemed to me that if one unplugged the phone line after verification, their data collection would be stopped or hampered? Or does the dish transmit back to the satellite???


9 posted on 03/11/2008 8:48:03 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dada Orwell; Alamo-Girl; airborne; American in Israel; AnimalLover; auggy; backhoe; backslacker; ...

END TIMES/ DREAMS/ VISIONS/ PROPHECY PING LIST PING.


10 posted on 03/11/2008 8:49:05 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix
with DIRECTV . . . seemed to me that if one unplugged the phone line after verification, their data collection would be stopped or hampered?

You also would lose updates and at the next scheduled update, if a communication connection isn't established, you will blue screen.

11 posted on 03/11/2008 8:49:14 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: Quix
OF COURSE the REAL ID is a precursor and a close one at that, to the Mark of The Beast.

So what does any of that have to do with a rejection of God to the point, as some claim, that it would be a negation of the salvation that Christ bought for us?

12 posted on 03/11/2008 8:50:28 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: mnehrling

Right on!


13 posted on 03/11/2008 8:50:34 AM PDT by RightWhale (Clam down! avoid ataque de nervosa)
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To: Dada Orwell

As a pretribber, I won’t receiving “the mark”.

We won’t be here. While we ARE here, we should be getting others on board. Those left behind will have to deal with “the mark”. Worrying about “the mark” when the real problem is unsaved people - doesn’t make sense to me.


14 posted on 03/11/2008 8:51:11 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: mnehrling

I hope that’s not evidence of any smug pseudo-’confidence’ that The Mark will NOT include denial of God and worship of The Beast.

Do you really think that ‘little issue’ will be difficult to implement once all the other puzzle pieces are in place . . .

in the coming few years?

Or are you even of the opinion that such Scriptures are not being fulfilled in our era. That would be the least perceptive perspective, imho.

By a wide and extremely hazardous margin.


15 posted on 03/11/2008 8:51:45 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: mnehrling

My 3 boxes aren’t connected to a phone line, yet they just got the Directv software upgrade. I was wondering how that happened - wonder if my dish is a transmitter.


16 posted on 03/11/2008 8:53:28 AM PDT by RabidBartender
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To: Matchett-PI

Thanks. Looks like a good resource.

Of course . . . one would have to drill a hole and pour it in to many of the ANTIDISPY’S . . . and even then they’d be sreaming “NO! NO! I still don’t believe it!” LOL.

If they still take that position on the way to the guillotines . . . God have mercy on them.


17 posted on 03/11/2008 8:54:13 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: taxcontrol

You really haven’t researched this more than the depth of an onion skin, have you.


18 posted on 03/11/2008 8:54:54 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: mnehrling; Quix

My Direct has been not hooked to phone for over 8 months and still works. I know this because my wife has me rearrange the living room every 3-4 months and I do not have a phone jack where the tv is now and the last 2 places. The last time we had to hook it to phone was when my kids pulled out the card and jacked up the programming. Once we called in and they did there thing I unhooked it again.

I cannot help but think they they can monitor a return wave but I am not an expert in that area.


19 posted on 03/11/2008 8:55:14 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: RobRoy

Depends on what one means by voluntary.

Those not accepting it will die for Christ. Scripture is clear about that.


20 posted on 03/11/2008 8:55:52 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dada Orwell

Personally, I think RealID is going to be such a costly pain for states to implement that it will be revoked. Just my humble opinion.


21 posted on 03/11/2008 8:57:00 AM PDT by knittnmom (...surrounded by reality!)
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To: Quix
I hope that’s not evidence of any smug pseudo-’confidence’ that The Mark will NOT include denial of God and worship of The Beast.

So you are saying that we should reject technology because, maybe, just maybe, somewhere in the future, someone may somehow associate that technology with a denial of Christ. How did that pan out for people who 'knew for a fact' that Social Security Numbers were a mark of the beast. How about those who 'knew for a fact' that bar codes were the mark of the beast? How does any of this help us in our walk with Christ? Did Christ preach fear and paranoia or did he preach Love? What does it do Christians to live in fear and paranoia? How do we spread Christ's love? IMHO, fear and paranoia are planted distractions from the evil one to trick us into losing focus on what Christ taught us. But that is my opinion...

22 posted on 03/11/2008 8:57:06 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: mnehrling

Hmmmmm.

We have tossed our TV literally so haven’t used our feed. But Dad’s been on DirecTV for 4 years or so and the phone’s been unplugged probably 3.5 or more of those 4 years. He still gets reception fine. They are still happy to receive his check.


23 posted on 03/11/2008 8:57:15 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Resolute Conservative

Interesting, mine stopped working a while back when the phone line came unplugged and I wasn’t aware (not sure how long it was, but it couldn’t have been more than a month.) Maybe it involves the type of service.. (but this is for another thread, I know..)


24 posted on 03/11/2008 8:58:33 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: Dada Orwell
One could make a case than any and every ID or ID number is a precursor to the Mark. That includes Name, SS#, Drivers License, Credit card numbers, etc.

What is known is that the Mark will be different in this way, it will either be on the right hand or on the forehead. It will be a symbol of allegiance and without it you won't be able to buy food or conduct commerce.

Rev 13:16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

25 posted on 03/11/2008 8:58:36 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: mnehrling

Because SCRIPTURE DELCARES

that those accepting The Mark/worshipping the beast will be eternally

REJECTED BY GOD.

. . .

Folks being out to lunch on this issue is one of the most prophetically clueless things I’ve witnessed in my adult life. And it’s all the worse given the eternal life implications. Thankfully, not every non-Christian is as thickheaded on the evidence as a lot of “Christians.”


26 posted on 03/11/2008 8:59:36 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: RightWhale

Hogwash by several galactic cluster margins.


27 posted on 03/11/2008 9:00:05 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: nmh

I believe and pray that’s true.

REGARDLESS, i know where I stand on the issue of The Mark!

NO WAY!


28 posted on 03/11/2008 9:00:40 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dada Orwell

bflr


29 posted on 03/11/2008 9:01:15 AM PDT by Hegemony Cricket (IX-XI -- numquam didici)
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To: Resolute Conservative

Thanks.


30 posted on 03/11/2008 9:01:49 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Matchett-PI

Another good site on this:

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/Watch.htm


31 posted on 03/11/2008 9:02:15 AM PDT by RobRoy (I'm confused. I mean, I THINK I am, but I'm not sure. But I could be wrong about that.)
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To: mnehrling
Be it the social security number, bar codes, driver's licenses, credit cards, RFID, realID, whatever, every case that people claimed at the time was "the Mark" lacked one important element- what it had to do with turning one's back on God.

I believe the REAL ID is either the mark or another step in that direction because it is a conduit to replacing God with the government.

32 posted on 03/11/2008 9:02:25 AM PDT by Chris DeWeese (http://www.kccog.org)
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To: mnehrling

My line is the implant.

NO IMPLANT.

I suppose if it was delcared that no one could use debit cards etc. without a given demonstration of worshipping the beast, I’d toss those, too.


33 posted on 03/11/2008 9:03:07 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: DannyTN

YUP.


34 posted on 03/11/2008 9:04:03 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dada Orwell

I think it is a precursor to it. So was the SS number. Kind’a like the frog in the boiling water.

The Christians of today are really lazy. They do not visit the sick, the elderly, or the shutins like they did when I was a kid.

Now I know that their are a good many Christians who do these things, but most (especially here in the south)go to church and endure fifteen to thirty minutes of preaching and then it’s, “where we going to eat.”

I have tried hard to find a church to go to where God’s word is real and the body does all they can to fight abortion. I was told at one church that I was not allowed to participate because of my past. I was very bitter for what what happened to my brothers in Vietnam when I came home and I drank a lot to try and forget. I also did a lot of pills that the VA was more than glad to give me. I also let it be know that I was mad at God and wanted nothing to do with him. All that changed when I accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior,but my past still haunts me.

The really sad part is that when I stopped going to church not one person has visited me to ask why.

Another church I attended told me that the lost were not welcome and I left immediately. I guess they thought I was an unforgiven sinner. I do look kinda ruff with an oxygen tank , a cane, and walking like Frankenstein .

Like I said, I know that many beloved Christians are fighting the good fight. I sure would like to fight it with them, but now I am just a homebody with more sickness than I care to talk about.

James


35 posted on 03/11/2008 9:04:30 AM PDT by 11bravo wolfhoundf ( "Duty is ours; results are God's." John Quincy Adams)
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To: RobRoy

Thanks.


36 posted on 03/11/2008 9:04:34 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Chris DeWeese

Excellent point.


37 posted on 03/11/2008 9:05:07 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Matchett-PI

And more specifically:

http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/Definitions/Def_Pretrib.htm


38 posted on 03/11/2008 9:05:17 AM PDT by RobRoy (I'm confused. I mean, I THINK I am, but I'm not sure. But I could be wrong about that.)
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To: 11bravo wolfhoundf

their = there

sorry, I just can’t seem to catch mistakes.

I think I will quit posting form a while.


39 posted on 03/11/2008 9:06:39 AM PDT by 11bravo wolfhoundf ( "Duty is ours; results are God's." John Quincy Adams)
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To: Quix

>>Depends on what one means by voluntary.

Those not accepting it will die for Christ. Scripture is clear about that.<<

Generally speaking, I agree.


40 posted on 03/11/2008 9:07:05 AM PDT by RobRoy (I'm confused. I mean, I THINK I am, but I'm not sure. But I could be wrong about that.)
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To: Quix
that those accepting The Mark/worshipping the beast will be eternally

But where is the delineation that RFID, SSNs, RealIDs, whatever, is the mark as described here? How does any of these cross the line of a rejection of Christ? Just because it is some sort of identifier, where in it's make up does it cross the line? Let's use SSNs for example. People swore up and down and had proof in scripture that SSNs were the 'mark of the Beast'.. What in a SSN or having one is a rejection of Christ?

This is all a common logical fallacy. It is saying, The Mark of the beast is a identification mark. RealID is an identification mark. Therefore, RealID is the mark of the Beast. That is flawed logic. It is like saying All grass is green. A frog is green. Therefore a frog is grass.

Every generation, going back two thousand years has had its own interpretation of what the mark is (as well as other end-time prophecies) and all declared that they were right with as much passion and knowledge as those who claim we are in the end times now.

41 posted on 03/11/2008 9:07:18 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: 11bravo wolfhoundf

My heart goes out to you.

Finding a good church is getting increasingly difficult.

I suspect God’s going to overhaul or trash the whole human church system sooner than most think.

God be with you, Bro. I’m without a church currently myself. One grabs what fellowship one can and keep up the Scripture reading and personal worship and prayer.


42 posted on 03/11/2008 9:07:29 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Dada Orwell

God was unhappy when King David wanted to count everyone in Israel. I think that when a country(ries) wants to keep track of its people like what was done with David time, could this made God mad?

The Mark of the Beast =

Beast is Satan or a country that Satan is using.

The Mark = Satan using a symbol for counting and shopping. A lot like the marks used on prisoners during the Holocaust.

..Just thinking out loud...


43 posted on 03/11/2008 9:08:08 AM PDT by tmp02
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To: Dada Orwell
What do *you* think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?

No, it's not the mark of the beast. It may help set the stage for acceptance of the mark later on.

44 posted on 03/11/2008 9:08:18 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: RobRoy

Thx.


45 posted on 03/11/2008 9:09:24 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Resolute Conservative
"They also have records of every website you visit and email you send."

That's an awful lot of information for them to record...several thousand gigabytes of information from each person, multiplied by 200 million people actively engaged in Internet use...WHEW! That amount of information would be nigh IMPOSSIBLE to sift through...

46 posted on 03/11/2008 9:09:26 AM PDT by EnigmaticAnomaly (Proud member of the largest 'Hate Group' in the USA...The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy")
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To: Quix

You are correct here. Direct tv knows nothing unless you got the phoneline plugged in. Even then they only send updates and transmit back purchased info. (on demand)


47 posted on 03/11/2008 9:10:08 AM PDT by CJ Wolf (Let Freedom Ping List - Ron Paul - Ron Paul - Ron Paul - Join it.)
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To: VRWCmember
No, it's not the mark of the beast. It may help set the stage for acceptance of the mark later on.

So should we be teaching people to fear 'marks' or should we be teaching people to never reject God? I think our priority and focus is in the wrong place.

48 posted on 03/11/2008 9:10:36 AM PDT by mnehring (The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me. - Ayn Rand)
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To: mnehrling

I think I used pretty common words:

The line in the sand for me is the implant.

The implant will be easy for the powers that be to enforce the Biblical

without the mark it will be IMPOSSIBLE to buy or sell.

Denial is not a beautiful thing.


49 posted on 03/11/2008 9:11:04 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: EnigmaticAnomaly

They’ve been sorting all electronic communications with a massive list of keywords for AT LEAST 37 years that I know of.

Yes, they’ve had acres of computers and massive storage handling such just as long—in several locations globally—including Australia, Belgium . . . . etc.


50 posted on 03/11/2008 9:12:58 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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