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LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM
The Coming Home Network ^ | Brian W. Harrison

Posted on 03/24/2008 3:36:37 PM PDT by annalex

LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM

by Brian W. Harrison

As an active Protestant in my mid-twenties I began to feel that I might have a vocation to become a minister. The trouble was that while I had quite definite convictions about the things that most Christians have traditionally held in common—the sort of thing C.S. Lewis termed "mere Christianity."

I had had some firsthand experience with several denominations (Presbyterian, Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist) and was far from certain as to which of them (if any) had an overall advantage over the others. So I began to think, study, search, and pray. Was there a true Church? If so, how was one to decide which?

The more I studied, the more perplexed I became. At one stage my elder sister, a very committed evangelical with somewhat flexible denominational affiliations, chided me with becoming "obsessed" with trying to find a "true Church." "Does it really matter?" she would ask. Well, yes it did. It was all very well for a lay Protestant to relegate the denominational issue to a fairly low priority amongst religious questions: lay people can go to one Protestant Church one week and another the next week and nobody really worries too much. But an ordained minister obviously cannot do that. He must make a very serious commitment to a definite Church community, and under normal circumstances that commitment will be expected to last a lifetime. So clearly that choice had to be made with a deep sense of responsibility; and the time to make it was before, not after, ordination.

As matters turned out, my search lasted several years, and eventually led me to where I never suspected it would at first. I shall not attempt to relate the full story, but will focus on just one aspect of the question as it developed for me—an aspect which seems quite fundamental.

As I groped and prayed my way towards a decision, I came close to despair and agnosticism at times, as I contemplated the mountains of erudition, the vast labyrinth of conflicting interpretations of Christianity (not to mention other faiths) which lined the shelves of religious bookshops and libraries. If all the "experts" on Truth—the great theologians, historians, philosophers—disagreed interminably with each other, then how did God, if He was really there, expect me, an ordinary Joe Blow, to work out what was true?

The more I became enmeshed in specific questions of Biblical interpretation—of who had the right understanding of justification, of the Eucharist, Baptism, grace, Christology, Church government and discipline, and so on—the more I came to feel that this whole-line of approach was a hopeless quest, a blind alley. These were all questions that required a great deal of erudition, learning, competence in Biblical exegesis, patristics, history, metaphysics, ancient languages—in short, scholarly research. But was it really credible (I began to ask myself) that God, if He were to reveal the truth about these disputed questions at all, would make this truth so inaccessible that only a small scholarly elite had even the faintest chance of reaching it? Wasn’t that a kind of gnosticism? Where did it leave the nonscholarly bulk of the human race? It didn’t seem to make sense. If, as they say, war is too important to be left to the generals, then revealed truth seemed too important to be left to the Biblical scholars. It was no use saying that perhaps God simply expected the non-scholars to trust the scholars. How were they to know which scholars to trust, given that the scholars all contradicted each other?

Therefore, in my efforts to break out of the dense exegetical undergrowth where I could not see the wood for the trees, I shifted towards a new emphasis in my truth-seeking criteria: I tried to get beyond the bewildering mass of contingent historical and linguistic data upon which the rival exegetes and theologians constructed their doctrinal castles, in order to concentrate on those elemental, necessary principles of human thought which are accessible to all of us, learned and unlearned alike. In a word, I began to suspect that an emphasis on logic, rather than on research, might expedite an answer to my prayers for guidance.

The advantage was that you don’t need to be learned to be logical. You need not have spent years amassing mountains of information in libraries in order to apply the first principles of reason. You can apply them from the comfort of your armchair, so to speak, in order to test the claims of any body of doctrine, on any subject whatsoever, that comes claiming your acceptance. Moreover logic, like mathematics, yields firm certitude, not mere changeable opinions and provisional hypotheses. Logic is the first natural "beacon of light" with which God has provided us as intelligent beings living in a world darkened by the confusion of countless conflicting attitudes, doctrines and world-views, all telling us how to live our lives during this brief time that is given to us here on earth.

Logic of course has its limits. Pure "armchair" reasoning alone will never be able to tell you the meaning of your life and how you should live it. But as far as it goes, logic is an indispensable tool, and I even suspect that you sin against God, the first Truth, if you knowingly flout or ignore it in your thinking. "Thou shalt not contradict thyself" seems to me an important precept of the natural moral law. Be that as it may, I found that the main use of logic, in my quest for religious truth, turned out to be in deciding not what was true, but what was false. If someone presents you with a system of ideas or doctrines which logical analysis reveals to be coherent—that is, free from internal contradictions and meaningless absurdities—then you can conclude, "This set of ideas may be true. It has at least passed the first test of truth—the coherence test." To find out if it actually is true you will then have to leave your logician’s armchair and seek further information. But if it fails this most elementary test of truth, it can safely be eliminated without further ado from the ideological competition, no matter how many impressive-looking volumes of erudition may have been written in support of it, and no matter how attractive and appealing many of its features (or many of its proponents) may appear.

Some readers may wonder why I am laboring the point about logic. Isn’t all this perfectly obvious? Well, it ought to be obvious to everyone, and is indeed obvious to many, including those who have had the good fortune of receiving a classical Catholic education. Catholicism, as I came to discover, has a quite positive approach to our natural reasoning powers, and traditionally has its future priests study philosophy for years before they even begin theology. But I came from a religious milieu where this outlook was not encouraged, and was often even discouraged. The Protestant Reformers taught that original sin has so weakened the human intellect that we must be extremely cautious about the claims of "proud reason." Luther called reason the "devil’s whore"—a siren which seduced men into grievous error. "Don’t trust your reason, just bow humbly before God’s truth revealed to you in His holy Word, the Bible!"—this was pretty much the message that came through to me from the Calvinist and Lutheran circles that influenced me most in the first few years after I made my "decision for Christ" at the age of 18. The Reformers themselves were forced to employ reason even while denouncing it, in their efforts to rebut the Biblical arguments of their "Papist" foes. And that, it seemed to me, was rather illogical on their part.

 

LOGIC AND THE "SOLA SCRIPTURA" PRINCIPLE

Thus, with my awakening interest in logical analysis as a test of religious truth, I was naturally led to ask whether this illogicality in the practice of the Reformers was, perhaps, accompanied by illogicality at the more fundamental level of their theory. As a good Protestant I had been brought up to hold as sacred the basic methodological principle of the Reformation: that the Bible alone contains all the truth that God has revealed for our salvation. Churches that held to that principle were at least "respectable," one was given to understand, even though they might differ considerably from each other in regard to the interpretation of Scripture. But as for Roman Catholicism and other Churches which unashamedly added their own traditions to the Word of God—were they not self-evidently outside the pale? Were they not condemned out of their own mouths?

But when I got down to making a serious attempt to explore the implications of this rock-bottom dogma of the Reformers, I could not avoid the conclusion that it was rationally indefensible. This is demonstrated in the following eight steps, which embody nothing more than simple, commonsense logic, and a couple of indisputable, empirically observable facts about the Bible:

1. The Reformers asserted Proposition A: "All revealed truth is to be found in the inspired Scriptures." However, this is quite useless unless we know which books are meant by the "inspired Scriptures." After all, many different sects and religions have many different books, which they call "inspired Scriptures."

2. The theory we are considering, when it talks of "inspired Scriptures," means in fact those 66 books, which are bound and published in Protestant Bibles. For convenience we shall refer to them from now on simply as "the 66 books."

3. The precise statement of the theory we are examining thus becomes Proposition B: "All revealed truth is to be found in the 66 books."

4. It is a fact that nowhere in the 66 books themselves can we find any statements telling us which books make up the entire corpus of inspired Scripture. There is no complete list of inspired books anywhere within their own pages, nor can such a list be compiled by putting isolated verses together. (This would be the case: (a) if you could find verses like "Esther is the Word of God," "This Gospel is inspired by God," "The Second Letter of Peter is inspired Scripture," etc., for all of the 66 books; and (b) if you could also find a Biblical passage stating that no books other than these 66 were to be held as inspired. Obviously, nobody could even pretend to find all this information about the canon of Scripture in the Bible itself.)

5. It follows that Proposition B—the very foundation of all Protestant Christianity—is neither found in Scripture nor can be deduced from Scripture in any way. Since the 66 books are not even identified in Scripture, much less can any further information about them (e.g., that all revealed truth is contained in them) be found there. In short, we must affirm Proposition C: "Proposition B is an addition to the 66 books. "

6. It follows immediately from the truth of Proposition C that Proposition B cannot itself be revealed truth. To assert that it is would involve a self-contradictory statement: "All revealed truth is to be found in the 66 books, but this revealed truth itself is not found there."

7. Could it be the case that Proposition B is true, but is not revealed truth? If that is the case, then it must be either something which can be deduced from revealed truth or something which natural human reason alone can discover, without any help from revelation. The first possibility is ruled out because, as we saw in steps 4 and 5, B cannot be deduced from Scripture, and to postulate some other revealed extra-Scriptural premise from which B might be deduced would contradict B itself. The second possibility involves no self-contradiction, but it is factually preposterous, and I doubt whether any Protestant has seriously tried to defend it—least of all those traditional Protestants who strongly emphasize the corruption of man’s natural intellectual powers as a result of the Fall. Human reason might well be able to conclude prudently and responsibly that an authority which itself claimed to possess the totality of revealed truth was in fact justified in making that claim, provided that this authority backed up the claim by some very striking evidence. (Catholics, in fact, believe that their Church is precisely such an authority.) But how could reason alone reach that same well-founded certitude about a collection of 66 books which do not even lay claim to what is attributed to them? (The point is reinforced when we remember that those who attribute the totality of revealed truth to the 66 books, namely Protestant Church members, are very ready to acknowledge their own fallibility—whether individually or collectively—in matters of religious doctrine. All Protestant Churches deny their own infallibility as much as they deny the Pope’s.)

8. Since Proposition B is not revealed truth, nor a truth which can be deduced from revelation, nor a naturally-knowable truth, it is not true at all. Therefore, the basic doctrine for which the Reformers fought is simply false.

CALVIN’S ATTEMPTED SOLUTION

How did the Reformers try to cope with this fundamental weakness in the logical structure of their own first principles? John Calvin, usually credited with being the most systematic and coherent thinker of the Reformation, tried to justify belief in the divine authorship of the 66 books by dogmatically postulating a direct communication of this knowledge from God to the individual believer. Calvin makes it clear that in saying Scripture is "self-authenticated," he does not mean to be taken literally and absolutely. He does not mean that some Bible text or other affirms that the 66 books, and they alone, are divinely inspired. As we observed in step 4 above, nobody ever could claim anything so patently false. Calvin simply means that no extra-Biblical human testimony, such as that of Church tradition, is needed in order for individuals to know that these books are inspired. We can summarize his view as Proposition D: "The Holy Spirit teaches Christians individually, by a direct inward testimony, that the 66 books are inspired by God. "

The trouble is that the Holy Spirit Himself is an extra-Biblical authority as much as a Pope or Council. The third Person of the Trinity is clearly not identical with the truths He has expressed, through human authors, in the Bible. It follows that even if Calvin’s Proposition D is true, it contradicts Proposition B, for "if all revealed truth is to be found in the 66 books," then that leaves no room for the Holy Spirit to reveal directly and non-verbally one truth which cannot be found in any passage of those books, namely, the fact that each one of them is inspired.

In any case, even if Calvin could somehow show that D did not itself contradict B, he would still not have succeeded in showing that B is true. Even if we were to accept the extremely implausible view represented by Proposition D, that would not prove that no other writings are inspired, and much less would it prove that there are no revealed truths that come to us through tradition rather than through inspired writings. In short, Calvin’s defense of Biblical inspiration in no way overthrows our eight-step disproof of the sola Scriptura principle. Indeed, it does not even attempt to establish that principle as a whole, but only one aspect of it—that is, which books are to be understood by the term "Scriptura."

The schizoid history of Protestantism itself bears witness to the original inner contradiction which marked its conception and birth. Conservative Protestants have maintained the original insistence on the Bible as the unique infallible source of revealed truth, at the price of logical incoherence. Liberals on the other hand have escaped the incoherence while maintaining the claim to "private interpretation" over against that of Popes and Councils, but at the price of abandoning the Reformers’ insistence on an infallible Bible. They thereby effectively replace revealed truth by human opinion, and faith by an autonomous reason. Thus, in the liberal/evangelical split within Protestantism since the 18th century, we see both sides teaching radically opposed doctrines, even while each claims to be the authentic heir of the Reformation. The irony is that both sides are right: their conflicting beliefs are simply the two horns of a dilemma, which has been tearing at the inner fabric of Protestantism ever since its turbulent beginnings.

Reflections such as these from a Catholic onlooker may seem a little hard or unyielding to some—ill-suited, perhaps, to a climate of ecumenical dialogue in which gentle suggestion, rather than blunt affirmation, is the preferred mode of discourse. But logic is of its very nature hard and unyielding; and insofar as truth and honesty are to be the hallmarks of true ecumenism, the claims of logic will have to be squarely faced, not politely avoided.

 

Fr. Brian Harrison is currently teaching at the Pontifical University of Puerto Rico in Ponce.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism
KEYWORDS: fallacy; harrison
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To: Alex Murphy

Will do, please suggest the list of them.


21 posted on 03/24/2008 5:21:17 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
Actually, the Bible is older than the Church--than chr*stianity itself, even. The Hebrew Bible (the Prophets and Writings at least) were canonized by the 'Anshei HaKenesset HaGedolah (Men of the Great Assembly), while the Torah was literally written by G-d Himself before the Creation of the world and has never depended on being "canonized" by any human authority.
22 posted on 03/24/2008 5:31:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . veyiqchu 'eleykha farah 'adummah temimah, 'asher 'ein-bah mum, 'asher lo'-`alah `aleyha `ol.)
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To: vladimir998
“How many Catholic FReepers who will rush to lay praises on him can say they agree with him on these things?”

More than you think.

Well, considering that almost every Catholic FReeper who comments on these issues loudly endorses evolution, denies total Biblical inerrancy, or else never says a word on these subjects I think I can be forgiven for not knowing this.

“How many will consider him a “closet Protestant” because of them?”

None.

I don't know about that. Lots of Catholics who argue against Biblical inerrancy assume that the concept was invented by Protestants and is inseparable from sola scriptura. They seem to think that shooting the Bible full of holes vindicates the magisterium and Catholic oral tradition. Even the British Catholic creationist Daylight Origins Society traces the acceptance of evolution in the Catholic Church to a mistrust of the Bible that began at the time of the reformation. Never mind that liberal, anti-inerrantist Protestants are every bit as anti-inerrancy as any atheist, and they are just as much sola scriptura as Fundamentalist Protestants are.

“There are few communities smaller and lonelier than that of inerrantist Catholics. And I should know, ‘cause I used to be one.”

I doubt it.

Of course you know all about me. How dare I say something about my own personal experience of Catholicism when I was obviously dreaming or something?

23 posted on 03/24/2008 5:40:54 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . veyiqchu 'eleykha farah 'adummah temimah, 'asher 'ein-bah mum, 'asher lo'-`alah `aleyha `ol.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
How many Catholic FReepers who will rush to lay praises on him can say they agree with him on these things?

I agree with him. I hadn't "rush(ed) to lay praises on him," of course; I never rush.

24 posted on 03/24/2008 5:46:02 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Everything is either willed or permitted by God, and nothing can hurt me." Bl. Charles de Foucauld)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

You wrote:

“Well, considering that almost every Catholic FReeper who comments on these issues...”

Wait. Almost every Catholic Freeper who comments on inerrancy denies inerrancy?

Do you have proof of that?

“Lots of Catholics who argue against Biblical inerrancy assume that the concept was invented by Protestants and is inseparable from sola scriptura.”

So, of course you point them toward Dei verbum, right?

“Of course you know all about me.”

I know you have shown no particular knowledge of the Catholic faith so why would anyone conclude you were once Catholic?

How dare I say something about my own personal experience of Catholicism when I was obviously dreaming or something?


25 posted on 03/24/2008 6:20:49 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Ottofire; Quix; Alamo-Girl; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; ..
How did the Reformers try to cope with this fundamental weakness in the logical structure of their own first principles? John Calvin, usually credited with being the most systematic and coherent thinker of the Reformation, tried to justify belief in the divine authorship of the 66 books by dogmatically postulating a direct communication of this knowledge from God to the individual believer.

Huh? Calvin postulated that? No, God's holy word "postulated" that, and Calvin rightly affirmed it.

Calvin makes it clear that in saying Scripture is "self-authenticated," he does not mean to be taken literally and absolutely. He does not mean that some Bible text or other affirms that the 66 books, and they alone, are divinely inspired. As we observed in step 4 above, nobody ever could claim anything so patently false.

But that is exactly what Calvin wrote and meant and claimed and affirmed...for all those with ears to hear.

Calvin simply means that no extra-Biblical human testimony, such as that of Church tradition, is needed in order for individuals to know that these books are inspired. We can summarize his view as Proposition D: "The Holy Spirit teaches Christians individually, by a direct inward testimony, that the 66 books are inspired by God."

Isn't this exactly what the author said Calvin didn't do?

The trouble is that the Holy Spirit Himself is an extra-Biblical authority as much as a Pope or Council.

Yep. Spoken straight from Rome -- "the Holy Spirit Himself is an extra-Biblical authority."

BBWWWAAAHH!!!

Adding insult to injury, this goofy author continues to show his ignorance by actually equating in some manner or another the Holy Spirit to "a Pope" or "a Council."

And this author is attempting to show the illogic of the Protestant faith?

Illogic is believing there is "another Christ" and that there is a "Co-Redeemer" and that there is another mediator between God and men but Christ Jesus. That's illogical at best, and at worst, those words will condemn those who believe them.

27 posted on 03/24/2008 6:55:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: papertyger; Alex Murphy
LIke you people don't ping your myrmidons at the first sign of intelligent opposition in the first place....

As soon as any "intelligent opposition" shows up, let us know.

28 posted on 03/24/2008 6:57:39 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Ottofire; Quix; Alamo-Girl; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; ..
Thanks for the ping. I saw this thread there really wasn't anything to discuss so I didn't bother.

My pastor had a wonderful message on Resurrection Sunday. In the message he discussed Thomas and the difference between honest doubters and dishonest doubters. Thomas when he actually touched the wounds on Jesus the Resurrected LORD he immediately cried out "My Lord and my God!".

I mention this because I really don't see the opportunity for an honest discussion. Alex Murphy was even pinged just so a flame war could be started.

29 posted on 03/24/2008 7:08:45 PM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

THANKS THANKS.


30 posted on 03/24/2008 7:14:44 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: annalex

Hello. A Happy Easter wish to all (a day after Easter).

This person’s argument against Protestantism seems to be based on the canon of scripture - the “66 books” as he calls it.

I would like to ask all the Catholic Christians who care to answer - because I really do not know the answer to this question:

Which books of “the 66 books” does the Catholic Church deem not accepted as part of the Canon of Scripture to which the Catholic Church looks for the basis of our shared faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord?

Thanks in advance.


31 posted on 03/24/2008 7:16:51 PM PDT by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: wmfights

IIRC, Thomas did not need to touch . . . he cried out when he merely saw The Lord face to face.


32 posted on 03/24/2008 7:40:45 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: annalex

Intersting article. He starts out asking the right questions, but ends up relying on Aristotelian Greek logic to arrive at a false conclusion about a decidedly Hebrew subject. If he would have just simply read the story of the NT apart from all the ridiculous human tradition that we’ve shellacked upon it, he would have found a much simpler and more pure destination.


33 posted on 03/24/2008 7:47:32 PM PDT by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
the Bible is older than the Church

Of course the Old Testament is older, but the Christian Canon of it is set forth by the Church, while the New Testament, the tool that unlocks the Old Testament for us, is a direct product of the Church.

34 posted on 03/24/2008 8:06:04 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: sandyeggo

Happy Easter. Christ is risen!


35 posted on 03/24/2008 8:06:38 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Ottofire; Quix; Alamo-Girl; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; ..
God's holy word "postulated" that, and Calvin rightly affirmed it

Doctor, would you care to defend Calvin's ridiculous view on the self-authenticating scripture, somehow? A scriptural eveidence of such self-authentication would help.

36 posted on 03/24/2008 8:10:56 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: wmfights

Pinging Alex Murphy guaranteed dishonesty of the discussion?


37 posted on 03/24/2008 8:12:30 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Ottofire; Quix; Alamo-Girl; HarleyD; wmfights; ...

“No, God’s holy word “postulated” that, and Calvin rightly affirmed it.”

All things necessary to become a Christian, live as a Christian, and grow as a Christian are clearly presented in the Bible. Without the Bible we could not know these things. Jesus said in Matthew 4:4, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.” As God’s very words, the words of Scripture are more than simply true; they are truth itself (John 17:17). They are the final measure by which all supposed truth is to be gauged.

The Bible is our only source for clear and definite statements about God’s will. While God has not revealed all aspects of his will to us, for “the secret things belong to the Lord our God”, there are many aspects of his will revealed to us through the Scriptures, “that we may do all the words of this law” (Deut. 29:2). Love for God is demonstrated by keeping “his commandments” (1 John 5:3). And his commandments are found on the pages of Scripture.

The New Testament affirms that its words are the very words of God. In 2 Peter 3:16, Peter refers to all of Paul’s letters as one part of the “Scriptures.” This means that Peter, and the early church, considered Paul’s writings to be in the same category as the Old Testament writings. Therefore, they considered Paul’s writings to be the very words of God. Paul, in 2 Timothy 3:16, makes this clear when he writes that “all Scripture is breathed out by God.” and as Paul told Timothy, “the sacred writings ... are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 3:15).

Paul, in 1 Timothy 5:18, writes that “the Scripture says” two things: “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain” and “The laborer deserves his wages:’ The first quote regarding an ox comes from the Old Testament (Deuteronomy. 25:4). The second comes from the New Testament (Luke 10:7). Paul, without any hesitation, quotes from both the Old and New Testaments, calling them both ”Scripture”; the very words of God. That is why Paul could write, “the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord” (1 Cor. 14:37).

Since the Old and New Testament writings are both considered Scripture, it is right to say they are both, in the words of 2 Timothy 3:16, “breathed out by God.” This makes sense when we consider Jesus’ promise that the Holy Spirit would “bring to” the disciples’s “remembrance” all that Jesus said to them (John 14:26). It was as the disciples wrote the Spirit-enabled words, that books such as Matthew, John, and 1 and 2 Peter were written.

The “extra-biblical authority” Holy Spirit, doesn’t change the words of Scripture in any way; he doesn’t supernaturally make them become the words of God (they always have been). He does, however, change the reader of Scripture. The Holy Spirit makes readers realize the Bible is unlike any book they have ever read. Through reading, they believe that the words of Scripture are the very words of God himself versus the extra biblical writings and traditions. It is as Jesus said in John 10:27: “My sheep hear my voice … and they follow me”.


38 posted on 03/24/2008 8:13:19 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
The New Testament canon of the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible are the same with 27 Books.

The difference in the Old Testaments actually goes back to the time before and during Christ’s life. At this time, there was no official Jewish canon of scripture.

The Jews in Egypt translated their choices of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek in the second century before Christ. This translation of 46 books, called the Septuagint, had wide use in the Roman world because most Jews lived far from Palestine in Greek cities. Many of these Jews spoke only Greek.

The early Christian Church was born into this world. The Church, with its bilingual Jews and more and more Greek-speaking Gentiles, used the books of the Septuagint as its Bible. Remember the early Christians were just writing the documents what would become the New Testament.

After the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, with increasing persecution from the Romans and competition from the fledgling Christian Church, the Jewish leaders came together and declared its official canon of Scripture, eliminating seven books from the Septuagint.

The books removed were Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdom (of Solomon), Sirach, and Baruch. Parts of existing books were also removed including Psalm 151 (from Psalms), parts of the Book of Esther, Susanna (from Daniel as chapter 13), and Bel and the Dragon (from Daniel as chapter 14).

The Christian Church did not follow suit but kept all the books in the Septuagint. 46 • 27 = 73 Books total.

1500 years later, Protestants decided to keep the Catholic New Testament but change its Old Testament from the Catholic canon to the Jewish canon.

The books that were removed supported such things as

The books they dropped are sometimes called the Apocrypha.

Here is a Catholic Bible website: http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/

Source

The author does not argue that the 66 books are not inspired. They are. But the Protestant Canon is truncated to avoid scriptural contradictions of Protestantism, which illustrates the point that an extrascriptural authority is required to even form the canon, let alone interpret the content.

39 posted on 03/24/2008 8:23:27 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: ovrtaxt
simply read the story of the NT apart from all the ridiculous human tradition

... then what? The proper Old Testament canon will emerge? Illogic becomes logic? Scripture will self-authenticate?

In isolation from the Old Testament the "sola scriptura" superstition looks even worse, since Jesus, unlike Moses, did not write or instruct the Apostles to write the New Testament, while He did found His Church with them. and gave her the teaching authority and the juruducal authority.

40 posted on 03/24/2008 8:33:41 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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