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LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM
The Coming Home Network ^ | Brian W. Harrison

Posted on 03/24/2008 3:36:37 PM PDT by annalex

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To: Petronski

Your response speaks volumes.


101 posted on 03/25/2008 7:05:49 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Quix
Fascinating . . .

I agree. This post points back to one I sent to you, yet it's not addressed to me.

One might think you were avoiding me.

instead of apology, more insult.

Why would you expect apology for something conjured from your own imagination? As I recall, you made no attempt to get clarification from me, but rather preferred performing a Sharpton-esque soliloquy.

from the marvelously mangled Mother Earth magicsterical, no doubt.

Would you prefer a more, ehem, extraterrestrial source ;o)

102 posted on 03/25/2008 7:06:45 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: annalex
We are not saying that the books in Luther’s OT canon are not inspired, just that the canon was truncated by him

Actually Luther did not truncate them, but that was done by Jews. Luther included those books in an appendix, and that was later dropped in the 1800's. But the Bible is not the gospel. The gospel is simply the good news of Christ. And I think we can all agree on what the good new of Christ means to us all.

103 posted on 03/25/2008 7:12:36 AM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: HarleyD

As does yours. Those “early church fathers” you mention are the Popes and Bishops of the Catholic Church, Christ’s own. Your Traditions of Men do not permit you to acknowledge that.

You cannot even acknowledge the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding them to select the truly inspired Word of God for inclusion in the Canon, for that might mean you had to acknowledge that the Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church.

Instead, you are stuck with the convoluted arguments of a despotic French lawyer, and his Traditions, the very arguments so artfully dismembered by the author of this piece.


104 posted on 03/25/2008 7:14:29 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Petronski
Would you prefer a more, ehem, extraterrestrial source?

LOL

105 posted on 03/25/2008 7:16:14 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: HarleyD; papertyger
The only reason they believe in Christianity is because of the word of God. That is how the word of God is self-authenicating.
    I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so. - St. Augustine

106 posted on 03/25/2008 7:27:28 AM PDT by Titanites
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To: HarleyD
The summary of this argument is that no matter what reasoning man may try to propose, it is the word of God that convicts a man's heart of sin, righteousness and of judgment.

That is not an "argument." It is a gratuitous assertion, and one at variance with Romans 2:15.

Are you sure you understand what Calvin was saying?

107 posted on 03/25/2008 7:28:16 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: Petronski
Fascinating . . . instead of actual response, more insult.

Ask him about bible codes. Go on, ask him ;o)

109 posted on 03/25/2008 7:31:31 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: blue-duncan
It's called "fulfilled prophecy" and is part of the reason why, like the Bereans, we believe that the scriptures are the self-authenticating word of God.

So where's the prophesy of Lk 2:29?

110 posted on 03/25/2008 7:36:40 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: HarleyD
I have heard this argument many times from many sources.

And successfully ignored them all. Go Team! 10 and 0!

111 posted on 03/25/2008 7:46:07 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: vladimir998
I will ignore your blatant denial of my own experience (and the fact that you are implicitly calling me a liar).

Dei Verbum is of no use because it can be interpreted any way the reader wishes to interpret it (just as Protestants interpret the Bible). Inerrantists insist it teaches total inerrancy; anti-inerrantists insist it teaches partial inerrancy ("those truths for the sake of our salvation"). Anti-inerrantists invoke Dei Verbum the same as inerrantists do.

112 posted on 03/25/2008 7:48:15 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . veyiqchu 'eleykha farah 'adummah temimah, 'asher 'ein-bah mum, 'asher lo'-`alah `aleyha `ol.)
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To: annalex
Of course the Old Testament is older, but the Christian Canon of it is set forth by the Church, while the New Testament, the tool that unlocks the Old Testament for us, is a direct product of the Church.

If you're going to insist the Jews "got it wrong" for the thousand years after Sinai, don't complain that Martin Luther was silly to believe the Church got it wrong for the first 1500 years of chr*stianity.

Assuming the truth of chr*stianity is no different than assuming the truth of Protestantism. If Protestants should open themselves up to critique by the prior tradition then so should chr*stianity itself.

113 posted on 03/25/2008 7:50:36 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . veyiqchu 'eleykha farah 'adummah temimah, 'asher 'ein-bah mum, 'asher lo'-`alah `aleyha `ol.)
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To: Quix

Speaking of hoopla...was there anything in your prattle about prophesy that authorized using a wrench for a hammer?


114 posted on 03/25/2008 7:50:56 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Petronski
Ahhh, there's the switch. The Hebrew Bible is not the entire Bible, merely the Old Testament of the Bible.

And since you refuse to question this and consider the claims of Judaism--since you basically claim the Jews "got it wrong" for the thousand years after Sinai--what right do you have to demand that Protestants question their own assumptions and open themselves up to prior chr*stian tradition?

115 posted on 03/25/2008 7:57:40 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ( . . . veyiqchu 'eleykha farah 'adummah temimah, 'asher 'ein-bah mum, 'asher lo'-`alah `aleyha `ol.)
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To: HarleyD
The early church fathers never had a problem understanding what the core sets of inspirational scriptures were.

Then why would Paul warn against letter supposedly from him?

Since you feel that I'm "obfuscating" the issue, can you explain to me and our readers precisely the difference between the inspired scriptures and the writings of the fathers?

Translation: You caught me so let's change subjects.

116 posted on 03/25/2008 7:58:37 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
...since you basically claim the Jews "got it wrong" for the thousand years after Sinai...

I do? Really?

117 posted on 03/25/2008 8:01:39 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
...what right do you have to demand that Protestants question their own assumptions and open themselves up to prior Christian tradition?

When did I make such demands?

118 posted on 03/25/2008 8:02:32 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: HarleyD
Specifically it would be beneficial to know how the inspired scriptures and traditional writings are used to formulate doctrine such as Mary's ascension into heaven or purgatory.

"Knowing how" which I believe you already do, and "persuading you to accept" are not the same thing.

Kindly refrain from wasteing peoples efforts by pretending they are.

119 posted on 03/25/2008 8:08:59 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; Ottofire; Quix; Alamo-Girl; blue-duncan
These articles are all the same...."the Bible is the inspired word of God, but we don't really know what is inspired...except that we do know what was inspired...but what we mean is the Church knows what was inspired...except the Church didn't know what was inspired until we confirmed what was inspired at Trent then everyone knew what was inspired although what we were quoting from as inspired was inspired until the Church officially said that stuff wasn't inspired..."

ROTFLOL!

What a great way to start the day.

With a little research, any Christian will find the NT was pretty well established way before any synods, or councils. One thing we owe our Christian ancestors is gratitude because they were so serious about recognizing forgeries and non inspired books.

120 posted on 03/25/2008 8:14:08 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Quix

It’s all good, brother.


121 posted on 03/25/2008 8:17:41 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: papertyger

“So where’s the prophesy of Lk 2:29?”

Luke 2:26, “And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.”


122 posted on 03/25/2008 8:18:09 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: papertyger
Why would you expect apology for something conjured from your own imagination?

Written AS THOUGH

some things were NOT BRAZENLY

self-evident!


123 posted on 03/25/2008 8:22:03 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: HarleyD
The early church fathers never had a problem understanding what the core sets of inspirational scriptures were.

That's why they never held an ecumenical council to establish the canon. They already knew what it was.

124 posted on 03/25/2008 8:22:44 AM PDT by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Quix

I’ll thank you again not to post images from my server space. If you want to post the laughing dog, put it on your own server.


125 posted on 03/25/2008 8:23:18 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Assuming the truth of chr*stianity is no different than assuming the truth of Protestantism.

Inncorrect. Protestantism can be refuted by it's own doctrines.

126 posted on 03/25/2008 8:26:58 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Petronski

My error.

Dear me! What a faux pas! LOL.

Apologies. Sure.

Seems to me I’ve seen it elsewhere.

LOL.


127 posted on 03/25/2008 8:29:41 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

I did not say not to post the image.

I said do not “post images from my server space.”

You do understand the difference?


128 posted on 03/25/2008 8:32:39 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Petronski
Instead, you are stuck with the convoluted arguments of a despotic French lawyer, and his Traditions, the very arguments so artfully dismembered by the author of this piece.

No, I don't rely upon a "despotic" French lawyer.

As far as the "very arguments so artfully dismembered by the author", I would agree that the author is arguing against scripture-the very scripture he purports to be "inspired".
129 posted on 03/25/2008 8:32:57 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Petronski
When did I make such demands?

I wondered if I had missed something...

So this isn't your straw man monsieur ;o)

130 posted on 03/25/2008 8:33:05 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: HarleyD
No, I don't rely upon a "despotic" French lawyer.

Forgive me. I thought you were a Calvinist.

131 posted on 03/25/2008 8:33:28 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: HarleyD
I would agree that the author is arguing against scripture...

Then you would bear false witness against the author.

132 posted on 03/25/2008 8:35:01 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: blue-duncan
Luke 2:26, "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ."

So Simeon was quoting a prophesy of Scripture before it was written? :oD

133 posted on 03/25/2008 8:40:47 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: Petronski

How puzzling . . .

a seeming

assumption that I didn’t know the difference! LOL.


134 posted on 03/25/2008 8:42:13 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix; Petronski
Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

135 posted on 03/25/2008 8:43:26 AM PDT by Gamecock (Viva La Reformacion!)
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To: Quix

“a seeming assumption?”

Oh no. Your first reply indicated you did not know the difference, so I explained it.


136 posted on 03/25/2008 8:48:08 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Petronski; Quix
I did not say not to post the image. I said do not “post images from my server space.” You do understand the difference?

You didn't have a problem when Lineage player "Ferine" posted the "attention wh***" graphic that you keep on your server space on the Lineage Guru board. And that's a far more, shall we say, interesting graphic than the laughing dog one. I didn't see a complaint from you towards "Ferine" then, so why complain against Quix now? Unless "Ferine" is you, that is.

In either case, here's a graphical response to your complaint against Quix. Apply liberally:


137 posted on 03/25/2008 8:48:16 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" -- Galatians 4:16)
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To: Gamecock

Precisely done. Perhaps QUIX still needs some help with the concept. I’ll leave it to you.


138 posted on 03/25/2008 8:48:44 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Gamecock

Ahhhh. I see.

Thanks much.

Appreciated.


139 posted on 03/25/2008 8:49:36 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

If it was so “BRAZENLY self-evident,” why did your “housemate” (whatever that means) have to explain what they thought it meant to you?

Ah, the romance of the theater....


140 posted on 03/25/2008 8:49:55 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: papertyger
“So Simeon was quoting a prophesy of Scripture before it was written?”

Luke 2:29, “Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word”. “According to thy word” was a prophecy to him and it fulfilled the Isaiah prophecies to Israel.

141 posted on 03/25/2008 8:52:25 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Alex Murphy
You didn't have a problem when Lineage player "Ferine" posted the "attention wh***" graphic that you keep on your server space on the Lineage Guru board. And that's a far more, shall we say, interesting graphic than the laughing dog one. I didn't see a complaint from you towards "Ferine" then, so why complain against Quix now? Unless "Ferine" is you, that is.

I thank you for calling my attention to this. I had never heard of "the Lineage Guru board." Ferine, like QUIX, has been using my server space without authorization.

However, since you DO know about this board, perhaps YOU are Ferine.

Enjoy the salve, you need it.

142 posted on 03/25/2008 8:52:58 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Petronski

Ahhhhh that old perceptual problem again . . .

LOL.

Indicated . . . to . . . whom! ?? LOL.


143 posted on 03/25/2008 8:53:40 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

To the reader.


144 posted on 03/25/2008 8:53:58 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I had similar thoughts but . . . far better for you to articulate such . . .

You have such a masterful way with things. Am frequently in awe of your skills at such.

Humbled and honored. Thanks.

I suppose we could prepare a Dick and Jane kindergarten version for the nutty cult of the RC edifice at large but I’m sure we have better things to do.

Besides, they are used to groping along in confusion.


145 posted on 03/25/2008 8:56:51 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Petronski; Quix
Perhaps QUIX still needs some help with the concept.

If I may help you out with a "concept." It is considered poor taste around these parts to talk about someone without pinging them to the post.

Hey Quix, in a spirit of Christian love I hung the images in question on my Photobucket site for your exclusive use. Enjoy

146 posted on 03/25/2008 8:57:50 AM PDT by Gamecock (Viva La Reformacion!)
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To: Titanites; papertyger
I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so. - St. Augustine

Talk about pulling something completely out of context this is it. Augustine wrote this to confront the Mani heresy.

The greatest heresies have been built on the backs of those who feel that only a priviledge few can rightfully interpret the scriptures.
147 posted on 03/25/2008 8:58:21 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Gamecock

Quix is already here.


148 posted on 03/25/2008 8:58:42 AM PDT by Petronski (Nice job, Hillary. Now go home and get your shine box.)
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To: annalex
Must be losing too many Catholics to the 'Bible' religions...Another sales pitch is required...

The trouble is that the Holy Spirit Himself is an extra-Biblical authority as much as a Pope or Council. The third Person of the Trinity is clearly not identical with the truths He has expressed, through human authors, in the Bible. It follows that even if Calvin’s Proposition D is true, it contradicts Proposition B, for "if all revealed truth is to be found in the 66 books," then that leaves no room for the Holy Spirit to reveal directly and non-verbally one truth which cannot be found in any passage of those books, namely, the fact that each one of them is inspired.

Two problems with this diatribe...

The first is that your church ignores the very scripture that warns us to stay away from people who try to understand the scripture with an intellectual, philosophical view...

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

The second is that the bible is a Spiritual book...It's a Holy Spirit book...It is out of reach for intellectual philosophers...

When people say the Holy Spirit leads them to understand the scripture, you just don't get it...Spiritual and logical just don't jive...

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures,

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

149 posted on 03/25/2008 8:59:11 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: papertyger

Because I wasn’t aware of what the pic was of.

If one is aware of what the pic is of . . .

THEN

It’s BRAZENLY OBVIOUS.

BTW, a number of folks clued me in.

So the evil deed was well known by many from the beginning. I was the slow one because I didn’t know what the pic was of.

It did, however, feel a bit dirty in my spirit when I first viewed it.

But I should be thankful.

It was a screaming declaration of the values of the nutty cult of the RC edifice.


150 posted on 03/25/2008 8:59:51 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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