Posted on 04/11/2008 4:47:05 PM PDT by NYer
ROME, APRIL 11, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Some of the mystery surrounding the devil and exorcism is being unveiled in a television and Internet report series, detailing the work of the exorcist of the Diocese of Rome.
Society of St. Paul Father Gabriele Amorth, Rome's exorcist for the past 21 years and a specialist in the figure of Mary, explained in the first edition of the series how he performs exorcisms.
"I go to one of Rome's churches, to a parish that is closed during the day," he said. "There is Mass in the morning and then the church is closed. There I perform the difficult exorcisms. I always work with seven to 10 people who help me, and use a small bed. Sometimes we need to tie people down or simply subdue them."
With Christ, the priest said, it is possible to overcome the devil: "The exorcist acts in the name of Jesus and with the strength that comes from Jesus."
Is he real?
The first question Father Amorth addressed in the report is if the devil exists: "I respond with the words of John Paul II, who was once asked this question: 'Your Holiness, I find many bishop who don't believe in the devil.' And John Paul II responded: 'One who doesn't believe in the devil doesn't believe in the Gospel.'
"The devil is an angel, and therefore, a pure spirit created good by God and who perverted himself because he rebelled against God. Therefore, he maintains all the characteristics proper of a pure spirit, such as a very large intelligence, immensely bigger than ours."
The devil is pleased by the way he is generally represented -- with wings and a tail, horns, as a bat, etc. -- because these images make him seem ridiculous and help people to believe that he does not exist, the exorcist reported.
Medical or spiritual
Father Amorth suggested that diabolic problems be separated from psychiatric ones; and to do so an exorcist is needed in every diocese to help in discernment.
"Normally when a person experiences these conflicts and problems, the first thing he does is see a doctor and psychiatrist," he said. "It is very difficult to distinguish the devil's action from a psychological problem. The person goes to a psychiatrist and after years of therapy obtains no result.
"Then he begins to suspect that the problem is not a natural one and goes to a conjurer from whom he obtains even greater harm. This is what normally happens. At this point, it is possible that someone more experienced in these matters suggests an exorcist."
Our Lady
The exorcist confirmed that Satan's great foe is the Virgin Mary.
He explained: "On one occasion an exorcist friend of mine asked the devil what most hurts him about Our Lady, what most annoys him. He responded, 'That she is the purest of all creatures and that I am the filthiest; that she is the most obedient of all creatures and that I am the most rebellious; that she is the one who committed no sin and thus always conquers me.'"
Father Amorth affirmed that on some occasions, God forces the Prince of Lies to tell the truth, however, the devil's main struggle is to make man fall into sin.
"To lead man towards evil is to make him fall into sin; this is the devil's preferred activity and we are all subject to it from our birth until our death."
According to Father Amorth, Mary is a key figure in the fight against the devil's tricks, especially since she herself was tempted: "Mariology is my field and I have often been asked if Mary was tempted by the devil. Definitely. When? From her birth until her death. But she always triumphed."
Parts of the weekly reports, transmitted in eight languages, can be viewed at H2oNews.
Really good post, RobbyS.
Freegards
My mom once told my dad, "Bubba, you would say something good about the devil himself!"
"Well," replied my dad, "He's always on the job . . . "
I just bought a book by this man. I also recently read an account of the exorcism that inspired the film The Exorcist, which was performed by a Father Bowdern of the Archdiocese of St. Louis in 1949 (although the demonic activity began in Maryland, in a suburb of Washington DC, where the victim lived)
a VERY scary subject. Not always easy to read
I am a great CS Lewis fan, and I must say, you captured his tone perfectly. Wonderful!
Demote Christ? You are mistaken. The text said:
The exorcist confirmed that Satan's great foe is the Virgin Mary.Mo> I replied:
Actually it is Jesus Christ.
Mary is not greater than Christ. Catholics believe that as well. I respect what the exorcist is doing, but there is no way anyone is going to tell me Satan fears Mary more than God.
the disorders that plague our society, man's inconsistency and brokenness, are not only the results of original sin, but also the result of Satan's pervasive and dark action
To get a real sense of this, step away from the news for a week or so and then pick up a newspaper. The longer one abstains, the greater the shock.
Nope...
When did the battle between angels and devils take place?
It hasn't taken place yet...
We cannot answer these questions unless we keep in mind that hell is more a state of mind than a place.
Then there's no need of a bodily resurrection...Then Jesus isn't really in Heaven...It doesn't exist...It's a state of mind...
Place and time are different concepts for spirits
We cannot answer these questions unless we keep in mind that hell is more a state of mind than a place.
Obviously you don't believe Heaven and Hell are real so you claim that qualifies you to be able to answer those questions...So let's hear it...
Nope...
When did the battle between angels and devils take place?
It hasn't taken place yet...
We cannot answer these questions unless we keep in mind that hell is more a state of mind than a place.
Then there's no need of a bodily resurrection...Then Jesus isn't really in Heaven...It doesn't exist...It's a state of mind...
Place and time are different concepts for spirits
We cannot answer these questions unless we keep in mind that hell is more a state of mind than a place.
Obviously you don't believe Heaven and Hell are real so you claim that qualifies you to be able to answer those questions...So let's hear it...
You are getting really metaphysical here. First of all, we know that God is outside of time, so all times are the present for God. Secondly, the question of whether heaven and hell are physical spaces (not necessarily the same thing as real places) is the same line of thinking as the Medieval argument regarding the number of angels who could dance on the head of a pin. The question is whether the spiritual occupies physical space or not. This is not a question of spiritual reality or the reality of heaven or hell, but simply whether they exist in space and time.
It’s all very simple really...
Ha...You guys make this statement whenever you can't explain something (which is often)...
Secondly, the question of whether heaven and hell are physical spaces (not necessarily the same thing as real places) is the same line of thinking as the Medieval argument regarding the number of angels who could dance on the head of a pin.
Not even close...Jesus said he ascended to Heaven...Was that really Heaven, or heaven IN HIS MIND (or your mind)...
The question is whether the spiritual occupies physical space or not. This is not a question of spiritual reality or the reality of heaven or hell, but simply whether they exist in space and time.
Well beam me up Scotty...No, that's not the question at all...The question is 'why don't you believe in the physical resurrection'???
It doesn't matter whether it's in God's time or our time, or His space or our space, when the resurrection takes place, it will be physical and it will be real...
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Now maybe you're not real, but Jesus is real...He is physical and He is sitting down in Heaven which is a real, physical place regardless of the fact that you and your pope are mystified about time and space...
My question is why would someone talk you out of believing in a real, physical, literal Heaven???
God made the universe good. But there seems no devil outside men’s minds.
Very powerful...
That was the explanation. We do not believe that God is limited by his creation, which includes space and time.
No one said that heaven was in anyone’s “mind”, but simply whether it occupied physical space, which we cannot know. The ancients believed that heaven existed beyond the sphere which held the stars, and that hell occupied a void within the earth. Are you one of those people who believes that heaven and hell must be located in a precise spot such as a moon of Saturn or a nearby solar system or perhaps on a quasar, or do you concede that it might be on another plane altogether? The amount of real estate in heaven is beside the point, but that certainly does not imply as you suggest that heaven is simply a projection of our intellect or imagination, nor that we do not believe in the resurrection of the body. We simply say that heaven, wherever it is, is not necessarily going to be constrained by the laws of physics.
Genesis chapter 3. Protestant version with explanation.
14 And the Lord God said to the serpent: Because thou hast done this thing, thou art cursed among all cattle, and beasts of the earth: upon thy breast shalt thou go, and earth shalt thou eat all the days of thy life. 15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
15 “She shall crush”... Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent’s head.
I believe that you imply, but didn’t state specifically, that the Devil is a creature as well. It may be that the good exorcist is merely pointing out that only God (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) is Creator, and that Mary, who is also a creature, is thus the truest foil for Satan.
Just a thought...
15 “She shall crush”... Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin: others read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent’s head.
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
How can you expound on a verse when you mis-quote the verse???
It doesn't matter what you believe...What's God's word say about it??? Do you know???
No one said that heaven was in anyone’s “mind”, but simply whether it occupied physical space, which we cannot know.
More doublespeak...
markomalley said it...Your popes have said it...
The ancients believed that heaven existed beyond the sphere which held the stars, and that hell occupied a void within the earth. Are you one of those people who believes that heaven and hell must be located in a precise spot such as a moon of Saturn or a nearby solar system or perhaps on a quasar,
Of course I do...God said it so I believe it...Who talked you out of it???
The amount of real estate in heaven is beside the point, but that certainly does not imply as you suggest that heaven is simply a projection of our intellect or imagination, nor that we do not believe in the resurrection of the body.
Well, do you believe in the resurrection of the body??? If you do, what are these physical bodies going to do without a physical place to stand on??? Just float around somewhere???
We simply say that heaven, wherever it is, is not necessarily going to be constrained by the laws of physics.
And it is not necessarily not going to be either...Now there's some logic...And based on what??? Must be intellect, eh??? God created physics...God says he created Heaven, to live in...
We know what is in the Bible, we know what tradition tells us, we know what we can reason. Yet God has left us with mysteries.
Tell me, how big is heaven and where is it? When we are resurrected in body and spirit, what form will our bodies take? That of our youth, out old age, or something else? If we lost a finger or limb in life, will it be reunited with us? What exactly did Jesus mean by “today” when He spoke to the second thief on the cross? Does Genesis 1 mean that heaven is under the sea, or is it surrounded by water somewhere else? Given that our bodies will be resurrected, will we need to eat in heaven or will our bodies be somehow different than in mortal life so that they will not require food? Why or why not? Please answer these questions directly, based on your particular theology, without incorporating statements about your opinion of Catholicism into your answer.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
This is pretty simple stuff...The problem most people have with these passages is believing them...
These Scriptures say God created heaven and above this solar system, there is a great expanse of water...This body of water is referred to as the 'deep'...Below heaven, God created a big rock...He created gravity on the rock and caused all the water under heaven to gather in the low places on this rock and He called it Earth...
God's throne is on the 'face of the deep'...
Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
Job 26:9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
Job 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
Job 26:12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
It's a sea...It looks like a frozen sea of glass...Crystal...
Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
And neither you, nor the Hubble telescope will see up thru it because on this side, it looks like a one way mirror...
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
I haven't even scratched the surface on the location of God's abode in Heaven...But you can bet it's in the scriptures...
And the answers to the rest of your questions are in the Scriptures...Odd that neither you nor your Magisterium can (or will) find them...
Thank you for a partial answer, and a good answer, as far as it went. However, you may recall that I requested your answer not include a comment on Catholicism. The point of the question to you was not to suggest that the Catholic Church or its magisterium do not have answers to these questions, but rather to understand your interpretation of scripture. Can you comment on how your theology addresses the rest of the questions? As you have already established that you disagree broadly with Catholicism, it is unnecessary for you to repeat this in every post. It would be more helpful for you to simply state your own theology without framing it in how you feel about Catholicism. Perhaps it might also be helpful, as a frame of reference, for you to provide the name of your own denomination, if it has one.
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