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To: markomalley
Why would claiming that Jesus's conception was immaculate automatically mean that Mary was without sin? Sex is not the only form of sin - there are nine other commandments. Mary could have been guilty of coveting in her wild youth and have needed saving for that.

Also, assuming that she only had it with her husband, why would sex on her part be evidence of sin at all? It is not a sin to have sex within marriage. Even if Mary and Joseph had 10 children after Jesus, that is still not sin, and even though I am pretty ignorant of Catholic doctrine, I would not believe that Catholic doctrine would fail to take that into account. It is only claimed that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived, and that needed to be emphasized because if Joseph was not the father, then sin would be assumed, except that God sent His angel to assure Joseph that no other man had been the father either.

It seems to me, that in the desperate rush to condemn the Catholic Church, many Protestants zoom in on the whole Mary thing and exaggerate and distort the teachings in order to confirm the entire basis for Protestantism, which is that the Catholic Church is false. For that reason, Protestants seem to need to believe in the most ridiculous exaggerations of Catholic teaching.
33 posted on 04/27/2008 8:20:25 PM PDT by fr_freak (So foul a sky clears not without a storm.)
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To: fr_freak

“It seems to me, that in the desperate rush to condemn the Catholic Church, many Protestants zoom in on the whole Mary thing and exaggerate and distort the teachings in order to confirm the entire basis for Protestantism, which is that the Catholic Church is false.”

Your views on “Protestantism” are way off base - you really shouldn’t assume that you understand what Protestants believe.


42 posted on 04/27/2008 9:45:09 PM PDT by Timothy
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To: fr_freak
Why would claiming that Jesus's conception was immaculate automatically mean that Mary was without sin?

Any Catholic can jump in please. I'm not a Catholic, but I think you are confusing what Immaculate Conception means with the Virgin birth of Jesus. The Apostle's and Nicene creeds which some/most Protestant denominations affirm (one or both) confess that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary. Mary was a virgin prior to the conception of Jesus and remained so until He was born. I think Immaculate Conception starts before and goes beyond that part of her life. Most Protestants believe Mary after Christ's birth was in every way her husband Joseph's wife.

46 posted on 04/27/2008 9:55:44 PM PDT by xone
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To: fr_freak
Why would claiming that Jesus's conception was immaculate automatically mean that Mary was without sin?

After further review and an impeccable source, Wikipedia, the Immaculate Conception:

"The Immaculate Conception is, according to Roman Catholic dogma, the conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus without any stain of original sin, in her mother's womb: the dogma thus says that, from the first moment of her existence, she was preserved by God from the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind, and that she was instead filled with divine grace. It is further believed that she lived a life completely free from sin[citation needed]. Her immaculate conception in the womb of her mother, by normal sexual intercourse (Christian tradition identifies her parents as Sts. Joachim and Anne), should not be confused with the doctrine of the virginal conception of her son Jesus."

If the above is accurate, and I make no claim it is since it is Wikipedia, then your comment:

"It seems to me, that in the desperate rush to condemn the Catholic Church, many Protestants zoom in on the whole Mary thing and exaggerate and distort the teachings in order to confirm the entire basis for Protestantism, which is that the Catholic Church is false. For that reason, Protestants seem to need to believe in the most ridiculous exaggerations of Catholic teaching."

seems at least to be ill-advised (respectful dialogue included) at the very least.

48 posted on 04/27/2008 10:23:32 PM PDT by xone
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