Posted on 05/03/2008 6:58:15 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
Bill Donohue may not be tired of the culture wars–or internecine Catholic wars. The head of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights is often over the top in denunciations of anti-Catholicism, real or perceived, and of other Catholics who Donohue sees as not toeing the proper Catholic line. But even Donohue may have outdone himself, and done in his own organization, if his latest press release prompts an IRS investigation.
The May 2 release is “Catholic Dissidents Advise Obama,” and it draws down on Obama’s Catholic National Advisory Committee, which includes several Commonwealers, such as Cathleen Kaveny and Grant Gallicho. It also includes Catholics in public and religious life, ranging from Sen. Bob Casey of Pennsylvania to the Sister of St. Joseph, Sr. Catherine Pinkerton. Also included are more than a few writers and theologians whose work I have long admired. Point of disclosure: I have also known Bill Donohue for years, and while I think he is completely wrongheaded many times, and inimical to the church’s well-being other times, he can also be a good guy to have a beer with, as well as someone who does not run from an argument, and an advocate who can point out indisputable cases of anti-Catholicism that still persist.
That said, this latest blast is way outta line. Donohue not only labels these Obama-advising Catholics as “dissidents” but he says “Practicing Catholics have every right to be insulted by Obama’s advisory group”–setting up Catholics who back Obama as bad Catholics and opponents of Obama, by implication, as good Catholics. Donohue employs his favorite trick of the invidious–and distorting–comparison, saying he wouldn’t have gay advisors who “don’t reflect the sentiment of the gay community”–as if these Obama-backers don’t reflect Catholic opinion. (In fact, they largely do. Not that this should be about public opinion, no?)
In his closing, Donohue takes a real potshot, saying that “If these are the best ‘committed Catholic leaders, scholars and advocates’ Obama can find, then it is evident that he has a ‘Wright’ problem when it comes to picking Catholic advisors.” As if these Catholics–check out the list–are the equivalent of Jeremiah Wright…!
But let me dissect this a bit more analytically. I see four chief problems.
One is that Donohue bases his criticism of these dozens of advisors principally on the “scores” that the abortion rights group NARAL gives some of the political figures on the committee (conveniently not mentioning the presence of Democrats Bob Casey and Tim Roemer, also on Obama’s committee, who have taken stands against abortion rights in many cases). Donohue also states that Obama’s pol pals do not agree with the church’s “three major public policy issues: abortion, embryonic stem cell research and school vouchers.” That is a rather selective list, in that the bishops’ own statement on political participation, titled “Faithful Citizenship,” lists seven principal policy areas, and they include “Option for the Poor and Vulnerable,” “Dignity of Work and the Rights of Workers,” and “Caring for God’s Creation.” Not to mention the church’s opposition to the Iraq War, which John McCain wants to continue.
Indeed, while Donohue has criticized McCain’s alliance with the rock-ribbed televangelist and preacher of standard anti-Catholic rhetoric, John Hagee, he has not brought similar scrutiny to McCain’s own Catholic advisory board.
And that raises the second problem, which was noted by the liberal group, Catholics United, namely that Donohue’s apparent partisanship could jeopardize the League’s 501c3 non-profit status. Catholics United also cites passages from “Onward Christian Solders,” a new book by Deal Hudson–a longtime GOP advisor–that show how Donohue has been active in helping the Bush White House and the Republican Party woo the Catholic vote.
This adds up to a big potential problem for Donohue. Yet it also adds up to a big payday for him. As the League’s publicly-available financial forms show, Donohue takes in a whopping $343,000 a year in salary and compensation. He can rightly claim that he has turned the League from a penny-ante mom-and-pop shop into the $20-million-dollar a year culture war machine that it is. But while few would disagree with fighting anti-Catholicism, I wonder how many will see Donohue as getting rich off anti-Catholicism.
A final point: Pope Benedict XVI, who Donohue spares no effort to defend, even when the pontiff is not under attack, made an explicit call during last month’s visit for Catholics to seek unity, not division. I’m not sure how Donohue’s internecine and potentially partisan sniping achieves that end, or even how attacking other Catholics connects with fighting anti-Catholicism.
I like Donohue. He defends the Catholics against those who attack his religion and maybe even against fools who sit on their computers 24 hours a day searching for articles that can slam the Catholic church. Sadly, these “surfers” call themselves Christians and actually think they are doing God’s work.The joke will be on them praise Jesus.
Sorry, he’s not going away.
the guy is definitely over the top and I’ve seen many interviews with him...that said I’m glad he’s on my side...
I too like Bill Donohue who is defending the Catholic Religion against Catholics In Name (CINO) Bob Casey Jr. who is treated as the great catholic by the Bishops of the Scranton Diocese!
BD is right...the catholic faith has rules and dogma and beliefs that have been around for many many many centuries...and when CINO’s step on those, they need called on it...
unlike our separated brethern, whos doctrines can change from church to church depending on who interprets the bible, or ‘allows the scripture to interpret itself (as long as it agrees with whatever pastor has pre-decided), BD says “NO”, the barque of peter will continue to chart the same continual course as it has from the inception of the church..
people need to realize that...
Like the ususal suspects on FR who scour the internet looking for anything that mock our faith and you know who you are, because your snarky and arrogant remarks always seem to be on the Catholic threads! Jesus Christ who said to Peter our first Pope, on this Rock I will build my Church, Thanks be to God!
I am afraid that the only folks around here who can make such demands are JimRob and the moderators.
No personal attacks have been made in this thread, both the folks you cite have only posted once each.
If Freepers were restricted from attempts to read minds, there would be very few posts here.
It doesn’t matter how deceitful, how prurient, how liberal, how contrary to everything that Free Republic, Christianity or the Republican Party’s values something is; if it bashes, hates, ridicules, embarrasses, slanders, contradicts, or maligns the Catholic Church, we all know who’s going to post it to Free Republic.
>> Discuss the article or leave. Do not make personal attacks or make attempts to mindread individual posters. <<
Then go back to the Democratic Underground where you belong, troll! And take your hit piece by this Obama-loving heretic with you.
Hey Alex,
If you can’t take the heat, then don’t post at FR. The simple fact is that Radl and notaliberal are both right.
This article is nothing but a hit piece against Bill Donohue in an attempt to silence him. No good Catholic can morally support Obama because Obama believes killing babies is a moral thing to do.
Also, the salary BD is getting isn’t an issue for me. The way I look at it, if I was paying part of that salary (and I’m not), I would definitely think I was getting my money’s worth because he’s everywhere on TV and in print and on radio taking it to the anti-Catholics, the bigots, the liars, and fools.
Money well spent.
Yeah, Donohue’s over the top, but sometimes he has to be. We tend to get complacent, but he’s always front and center defending the Church and reminding the faithful to do the same. Loss of religious freedom, heresy, and disrespect from within as well as outside the Church must be fought. I hate to break it to the author of the article, but Catholic teaching is not based on the popular opinion of us sinful creatures! Thanks be to God! Many dissenting “Catholics” know the truth but resist it to follow their own will, not God’s. Some have been poorly catechized and simply don’t know any better. My opinion is that BHO formed his little Catholic advisory group purposely from those whose beliefs and practices are closer to the Little Red Book than the good book. But then, he is an expert at twisting the meanings of words with his sleight of tongue. He may not be the father of lies, but he might be the brother. BTW, Donohue makes about as much as Michelle Ma Belle Obama for her goldbrick position. Fine with me. God bless him.
I like Bill Donohue. He’s worth every penny.
Personal atacks? I was talking about those who spend 24 hours a day attacking other religions. You were never mentioned.
Wow, you almost said that with authority. Were you wearing your moderator's hat at the time?
Oops. Forgot to change to the Religion Moderator profile. Easily done.
In his defense, just because you are a mod does not mean you can’t have an opinion and post under your own profile name on FR.
"By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" Matthew 7:16
Getting rich off the Lord... novel concept...oh I guess not. At least Bill doesn't "wear the cloth".
But you give us so much ammunition, and so often...
Besides, Jesus said to expose you people and 'Come out from among them'...
So are all the 'bad' Catholics supporting Obama or Hillary???
How many bad Catholics are there in the Body of Christ, Christ's Bride???
You wrote:
“So are all the ‘bad’ Catholics supporting Obama or Hillary???”
I don’t know of any good Catholics who are supporting Obama or Hillary.
“How many bad Catholics are there in the Body of Christ, Christ’s Bride???”
Unknown. How many bad Protestants are there in that whole collection of sects called Protestantism?
You said: expose you people
Using “you”...does that make it personal?
NOTE: posted to the RM “and” Alex just in case “one” or the “other” did not see it.
You wrote:
“Besides, Jesus said to expose you people and ‘Come out from among them’...”
“you people”? Wow, your hypocrisy is breath taking.
We're all bad...However, only those Protestants that are 'saved' are in the Body of Christ'...Any heathen can be a Protestant, or Catholic...
“you people”? Wow, your hypocrisy is breath taking.
No hypocrisy at all...Although there may be some saved among you, we (and you) are instructed that we have nothing in common with darkness...
Come out from among them...
Alex, er, the moderator didn't respond so I'm safe...
Wasn't personal in my view...
Who copied my post???
Jesus said, "they hated me before they hated you."... and we see that on this web site.
I lived right next to Grant when we were undergrads. When we were Freshmen, he was a paleocon. These days, he is another trendite liberal douchebag.
Donahue's right. They are bad Catholics.
The Rule of Benedict: Pope Benedict XVI and His Battle with the Modern World (Hardcover) by David Gibson (Author)
According to Publisher's Weekly he wants the priesthood opened up to women. Perhaps he should have converted to the Episcopal church. Sound's like a combination of sour grapes and poor catechisis.
From Publishers Weekly When Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger's name was announced as the new leader of the Roman Catholic Church on April 19, 2005, Gibson, a journalist and Catholic convert, was among the throng but not cheering. The author of The Coming Catholic Church considers himself part of "the silent majority of Catholics, who were hoping, praying, for the vibrancy and openness that would herald a new chapter in the history of the church." Instead, he writes, they got a "polarizing figure" with a well-publicized past, a man known for his heavy hand with liberation theologians and others deemed to veer toward heterodoxy. In this detailed examination, Gibson tells how Cardinal Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI, and why his ways of thinking about the church may not bode well for efforts to reform it in such areas as governance and opening the priesthood to women or married men. He paints the new pontiff as someone who is more interested in the personal piety of Catholics than their engagement with the world and issues of social justice. Readers who have been watching the new pope for signals of what his papacy will bring will find this to be absorbing reading. (Oct.) Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. Other reviews at Amazon.com:
I like Bill Donohue because he defends not just Catholics, but ALL Christians.
"You" is not "making it personal" when it is speaking collectively, e.g. those of a particular belief.
The post in question is speaking collectively.
It can be hard to tell the difference, so some posters avoid the word altogether.
Thanks...I'll try to avoid the term in the future...
Nah, it’s perfectly ok. I often have used “you” meaning group and have had it misinterpreted as a personal attack on the person I was responding to and been admonished for a personal attack. I understood you were referring to the group “you” but was looking for clarification from the RM on acceptability.
For all of Gibson’s blathering and his personal attack on Donahue, he still can’t refute Donahue’s charges against Obama’s Catholic National Advisory Committee.
You wrote:
“We’re all bad...However, only those Protestants that are ‘saved’ are in the Body of Christ’...Any heathen can be a Protestant, or Catholic...”
Actually no heathen is a Catholic. Once baptized, a man is a heathen no longer. If he falls from grace after that then he may act like a heathen, but that doesn’t make him one.
You wrote:
“No hypocrisy at all...Although there may be some saved among you, we (and you) are instructed that we have nothing in common with darkness...Come out from among them...”
I’m not among them and yet you said “expose you people”. Hypocrisy.
In other words, he's evidently a political ally of what freerepublic is supposed to stand for.
But I guess the party line around here is still that Catholics aren't wanted in the Republican Party.
Of course since Commonweal is a dissenting Catholic magazine, they would object to it being pointed out that Obama’s “Catholic” advisors dissent from Church teaching.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
The scripture proves you wrong...If you're baptized without believing, you're still a heathen...
You wrote:
“The scripture proves you wrong...If you’re baptized without believing, you’re still a heathen...”
Not at all. The scripture you referenced was clearly about baptizing adults early in the Church. Although the verse has importance in general for baptism, it is clearly not about an empty ceremony as you would have us believe. Baptism was for the forgiveness of sin - as pointed out in Acts. The scriptures prove you wrong - but that was a foregone conclusion if you’re opposing Christ’s Church.
Unwarranted, false, fallacious, and salacious arguments of any kind can be made against us a group. WE can all be described as liars and pedophiles. It's only a transgression if ONE of us is called a liar and a pedophile.
It softens the blow. But then again, this is from people who believe UFOs are coming to fulfill Bible prophecy so you have to consider the source.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.
Alex, any idea why post #9 was deleted after several days?
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