Good grief!
Posted on 05/05/2008 5:04:54 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
There is a Bible on a pedestal in Gretta Vosper's West Hill United Church in Toronto. She would prefer it did not have a special place, she said, because it is just a book among other books. In a similar way, the cross that is high above the altar has no special meaning, but there are a few older congregants for whom the Bible and the cross are still nice symbols so there they remain.
Though an ordained minister, she does not like the title of reverend. It is one of those symbols that hold the church back from breaking into the future -- to a time "when the label Christian won't even exist" and the Church will be freed of the burdens of the past. To balance out those symbols of the past inside West Hill, there is a giant, non-religious rainbow tapestry just behind the altar and multi-coloured streamers hang from the ceiling.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalpost.com ...
They can’t do that. It would require courage of convictions, something they lack.
And none of the members actually opposed this? I know that the denomination is a liberal one, but I thought at least one of them would complain about the explicit Christ-less situation. Unless those people had left long time ago...
Gee - I am sure I will want to get up early on a Sunday to go there - or smoke some pot...
Just an illustration of the basic incompatibility of Liberals with Christianity or any religion other than self-esteem.
Well if you don't like a certain truth, I suppose you can decide to torture the direct witnesses of that truth to death in an effort get them to admit they made it up. But that didn't work. So how about waiting a couple thousand years and snark that they were just a "great marketing team"? And it was so long ago that they weren't even modern even...so it must all be...like..."metaphorical"...like...and everybody...like..knows...fer shur...that its like...not real...unless its real for you...but we are all modern now...</satire>
Send her a Merry Nothingmas card this December.
"The central story of Christianity will fade away," she explained. "The story about Jesus as the symbol of everything that Christianity is will fade away."
And also: Ms. Vosper does not believe in the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection, the miracles and the sacrament of baptism. Nor does she believe in the creeds, the presence of Christ in communion or that Jesus was the Son of God.
She's in the United Church of Canada (if I read this article correctly). If so, will the United Church of Canada deal with her??
Just one more reason theese denomination will cease to exist. People crave knowledge of God and of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
It never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of liberals, yet who have no real courage. They will not admit to who they are; are willing to insult Jesus; will never be brave enough to speak out againt Islam, yet nitpick at anything Christian.
Ping — A “Christ-less” “Christian” or “new wave pagan”
Ping — A “Christ-less” “Christian” or “new wave pagan”
Good grief!
God's will, will not be thwarted.
Lots of mainstream denominations are headed that way...or are already there.
The pagans call themselves “new age” these days.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
There is no “all paths are equal” here.
“any religion other than self-esteem.”
That would be “secular humanism”, ie, atheism and worship of self.
If she had integrity, she would. But there's probably more money doing it this way.
The good news is that those denominations are losing adherents
and people are transferring to more “hard core” denominations with more “meat” and more demanded of the individual.
My thoughts, exactly!
This story fascinates me. I see something similar frequently in people I deal with. If I believe, then it has to be with the whole heart or why bother?
The journey I have taken in the past year to Christ has been wonderful and I am thankful every day for God’s grace.
No matter how “hard core” a denomination is, it is still a denomination. The body of Christ is to be one, with no divisions.
Wow... I don’t think that’s going to happen before the second coming.
We can’t even agree on some things within our small group bible study.
Another group of ex-Christians that want to make their own rules.
Clearly, it is no longer Jesus.'
But God is not left without recourse. A similar situation occurred at Sierra Madre (CA) Congregational Church in the late '60s, when the pastor declared his atheism. Attendance plunged so much that he had to leave to support himself. In 1968 the tiny remnant hired Lake Avenue Congregational's youth pastor. His first sermon was preached to sixteen people, including his own family. He is celebrating his fortieth anniversary now.
In the interim, SMCC and its related ministries have served vitally in the conversion to Christ of many thousands. God won.
“Another group of ex-Christians....”
To which I would argue they were never Christians to begin with. If they were truly Christian, they would have abandoned that useless “church” a long time ago.
- Hoss
And yet, that is exactly what Christ prayed for, and what the Apostles taught. There were no denominations in the 1st century, and there is no authority for them in Scripture.
"I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." - 2 Timothy 4:1-4
Looks like we have a case of "ear tickling" going on. Not a surprise. Avoid them.
"Let's get away from this idea that Jesus was God."
Within a year the chronic Crohn's disease from which he suffered was compounded with a rare form of Multiple Sclerosis which leaves the sufferer with increasing paralysis from the neck down.
He retired from the church by the end of that year. As far as I know, he left still harboring the same atheism in his heart.
Some people cannot learn while others will not learn.
“God won”
God always does in the end...
It appears the Lord is challenging his sense of self-sufficiency. I hope you and others have been praying for him.
That same forty-year pastor once said, "If you feel the mighty hand of God pressing down on your head, the worst response you can make is to stiffen your neck, for you cannot resist Him and your neck will simply snap. Instead, you must bend, at the knees."
In Revelation 3:14, Jesus reveals to John an insight into the church of Laodicea. “I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm -- neither hot nor cold -- I am about to spit you out of my mouth.”
Let’s play church! This church is “New Age” for sure... in that it allows and encourgages its members to indulge and be comfortable in their fallen state. Ready for Anti-Christ!
Both. A Christ-less Christian = a new wave pagan.
If “Christianity” will fade away, what will she become, a former Christian with herself as god? What a lost soul...pray the Holy Spirit brings her back to the Truth, the Way and the Life before it’s too late.
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