Posted on 05/08/2008 3:34:19 AM PDT by big'ol_freeper
An Apostolic Pentecostal is a person that believes in speaking in tongues - glossolalia - as proof that a person has received the Holy Ghost. Pentecostals are people who believe in dramatic demonstrations of the Gifts of the Spirit, such as prophecy or the interpretation of tongues. Pentecostal Oneness believers reject the concept of the Trinity and are convinced salvation relies upon the literal form of baptism; dunking rather than sprinkling and repentance of one's sins. People who are not familiar with Pentecostalism may think that the following descriptions are exaggerated and shocking, however the things depicted in this article are indeed accurate as I have witnessed it first hand. I spent a part of my childhood as a member of this religion because my parents were, and still are, heavily involved in their local Apostolic Pentecostal church. This is my perspective of the methods used in brainwashing new members into the Pentecostal religion and their indoctrination. Social Bonds Must Be Severed One of the tasks involved in submerging into the Pentecostal religion is breaking the bonds with friends and family. When a new member of the congregation is first introduced they are bombed with love, compassion, new friends that tend to leave them estranged from friends and family. What happens is the new member begins to take on the jargon and mentality of the church, most outsiders to the religion do not understand it. This provides a barrier that is difficult to cross because the new convert has been taught to represent God in everything they do, they begin to use phrases like "Praise God" and "The Holy Ghost checked me." Most people find this to be a bizarre way of talking outside of church.
(Excerpt) Read more at associatedcontent.com ...
I think she was looking for something a little more evangelical, than her Catholic church provided and she ended up in a cultish type church.
We can't judge everything based on a few though. A strong aspect of the Catholic church is that it's structure and tradition, doesn't allow for just anyone to just come along, pitch a tent, and call themselves Catholic.
It takes years of formation to become a Catholic priest. Then they have to take oaths of poverty and chastity. There have been a few wayward priests, but they really deserve a lot of credit.
Ping
ever since the mormons started bombarding this site, things have started getting wierder inthe religion category.
It is relevant in light of the RLDS cult abuse case.
Besides being a pointless screed against a generally unoffending group of people, the article is filled with irritating single-word links that are highly distracting.
Written by an idiot. Formatted by idiots.
I couldn’t read the whole thing.
But remember, the bible has been up for self interpretation. Many religions (and individuals) have their own interpretation of the bible.
You’re equating charismatic beliefs with child abuse and rape? Way to go, that’s just brilliant.
I did not. I said the article, which claims that Pentecostalism is a cult, is relevant because of the RLDS cult abuse scandal. I posted the article. I did not write it.
true, my aunt joined one of these groups and would go around asking us and our priest, “are you saved?” — and, in the presence of priests or nuns would be absolutely hostile, refusing to speak to them. Then a lot of “I’ll shake the dust off my feet when I leave since you won’t listen”, etc. etc.
I live most of the year here in Germany where the prevailing view is that society has a right to control the thinking process to prevent the crime. So, the sanctions against Scientology. The prohibitions against homeschooling including the incarceration of resisting parents is justified on the basis that the children must be "socialized."
In America, to the contrary, we accommodate religious belief so long as the behavior is not otherwise criminal. We even make allowances such as in the case of the Amish and permit them to pull their children out of school at an early age. We indulge Jews in kosher slaughter. Evidently, there is no accommodation which is too broad for our new Muslim immigrants. But Pentecostals?
I find it very dangerous to blackguard an entire religion because of the crimes of a different religion. Mormons are not Pentecostalists. For all I know, FDLS might not even be Mormon.
Punish the crime, not the belief.
You said: Punish the crime, not the belief.
I agree.
;)
You can try to disavow any responsibility if you want, but pesonally, I don’t post trash on FR.
As for the article, any offshoot that rejects the Trinity is heretical. Those churches are few and far between, and certainly not indicative of mainstream Pentecostal/ charismatic doctrine, nor is heresy limited to association with such churches or beliefs. There are goofy Catholics too, you know.
Whatever happened to the old admonition “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity” ?
Cool. I’ve heard of replying to a thread w/o reading the article — posting an article w/o reading the article is FR breakthrough that could get you into the FR lexicon.
So, quit using weenie words — does “relevant” = “agreement”?
Or are you some LDS kool-aid drinker trying to play some “See! You too!” angle?
You said: You can try to disavow any responsibility if you want, but pesonally, I don’t post trash on FR.
Nope. I am responsible for posting the article. You can tell because my name is right there at post #1. I am not responsible for the content of the article or the beliefs and practices of Pentecostals. They will be discussed and debated on this thread (with a sense of charity one would hope), as they already are, which is one of the purposes of the religion forum.
I find it interesting the degree to which some want to immediately cut off any discussion by attacking the poster instead of addressing the points of the article.
There are numerous examples of articles like this one that are posted every day about Catholics, LDS, Protestants etc. I see no reason an article like this one can’t be presented and discussed in a civilized manner, although I will grant you that on many of the others “civilized” goes out the window.
Nobody is forcing you to participate if you find it distasteful.
No, I am not LDS. I am Catholic (my tagline might have been a clue). Yes, I did read the article. No, I don’t consider the Pentecostals to be a cult. Yes, the article is relevant for discussion. Discussion involves making points related to the article vice childish outbursts.
Relevant is not a weenie word. Only weenies use weeny words. I am not a weenie. I served over twenty years in the U.S. Army, which is believe is adequate “anti-weenie” training.
Please don’t make things personal and don’t try to mind read other posters.
Fair enough. The article itself is inaccurate, however, in it’s equation of anti-Trinitarian heretics with the general belief in supernatural events and spiritual gifts among believers.
And for the record, I have no dog in this fight. I’m not a member of any church or denomination, except the group that meets in my home and the homes of other fellow believers.
You said: My expereince with Apostolic Pentecostal, is different [than the article].
Mine is also.
During one of my assignments in the Army I lived in quarters on a little side ride where there were five or six homes. Mine was on the end. Next to me was a family that were Baptists and next to them was a Pentecostal family. The father of the Pentecostal family was an Army chaplain. He was a great guy and I never had a problem with him or his family.
The only other observation I would make is that his wife would not speak to us (Catholic) or the Baptists next door. Also, their three children were not allowed to play with my kids or the Baptist kids. I have no problem with that...that’s their thing. I just found it somewhat strange...but strangeness is not illegal.
Dunking instead of sprinkling!!!! Dear GOD! What is wrong with these people!! Someone shold do something.
It is NOT relevant in that sense. Apostolic Pentecostals do not believe in taking wives at 12 and marrying them off to 50 something year old men. They even believe in birth control for God sake. Might not believe in short dresses, cutting women’s hair or men wearing shorts, but they don’t believe in child molestation.
Would they bash Islam this way, I don’t think so.
You said: My kids even played with kids that are of catholic faith.
They didn’t catch leprosy did they? LOL.
Lol!! No they didn’t.
Most Pentacostal churches I’ve been aware of don’t bash the Trinity but fully embrace it. Most Pentacostal churches recognize that it isn’t “dunking” that saves the person but rather the inward and outward confession of faith and repentance of sins that saves a person (with the inner man being regenerated by the Holy Spirit) followed by baptism(by “dunking” if you will as the term ‘Baptismos” means to “put under”).
Many Assemblies of God churches are outwardly pentacostal but other wise doctrinally similar to most evangelical protestant churches. Many Southern Baptists could feel comfortable there..at least for an “experimental visit”!
I met some APs when I started my current job 15 years ago. What a strange bunch they are. They say that during baptism the name of Jesus must be “invoked” or the baptism will not work. They say it is a lie of the Catholic church that people baptise in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. They believe that no one is saved unless they do all the steps exactly the way they say.
I've been wondering about the condition of Christianity in Europe. This sure answers a part of the question. Homeschooling is illegal in Germany!!??
Oh my...then you are definitely going to hell... < /reaction I usually get on here when I say I won't attend a physical church>
Got handbasket? ; )
...sounds familiar...was with the DIVARTY at Ft. Polk and lived in Deridder, which had (may still have) a large Penecostal following, as well as a huge 1st Baptist church...the Penecosts pretty much kept to themselves- of course, I’m probably not an objective observer, as I spent most of my time in the field...SP 109’s and Louisiana mud do not go well together...
Hooah, Chief.
I agree fully with your comment. I grew up in an Assembly of God and I thought it was a great body of Christians and as a young boy I enjoyed the lively services. I did have one disagreement with the Church teachings as I grew older and wiser, their overemphasis on speaking in tongues, and in the interpretation. We were taught that speaking in tongues was a sign of your conversion, and until you do so, you were considered a “baby Christian”. Yea, that is what they called us non speakers. I do believe in the gift of speaking in tongues, and the other gifts laid out in the Bible, but I don’t believe those gifts where meant to be given out to every Christian.
No more than you give all your children the same Birthday gift. You know your children better than anyone; their individual likes and dislikes their strengths and weaknesses, there needs vs. their wants. God knows us his children even better. He knew we were not going to be cookie cutter Christians. And nowhere in the Bible do I see a commandment to speak in tongues. It says some will speak, some will interpret, some will have the gift of prophesy or see visions. “Some” not all.
My oldest sister is still heavily involved in the Pentecostal church. Not an Assembly of God, but something a little more closely aligned with the Pentecostal in the article above, though its not a “oneness” church. I would not go so far as to call her church a cult, but it is far more radical than the Assembly of God we went to as children. She really does believe that the only true churches are the ones that speak in tongues.
Excellent post. It brought back to me that in the Catholic Church there is what is called “Pentecostal Movement” where adherents “alive in the Spirit” speak in tongues (those who can) etc. They are more in agreement with you on the gifts..some have this, some have that etc. When I was in the Army I knew quite a few folks who were “into” that, but since I retired I have not come across any. Not sure if it’s still a thriving movement or not.
I feel they can believe whatever they want as long as they don't hurt anyone. They can nail a slab of bacon to the door and worship that for all I care. But one sign of a cult is a prohibition against mixing with outsiders. It doesn't mean you have one, but it is a strong warning sign that you may.
Most of Europe is still Christian, but IMHO the government getting into and regulating the religion business hurts religion, and it shows. The German government doesn't consider Scientology to be a religion, but a business with anti-democratic ideals. Some may see Scientology as a religious issue, but most Germans don't.
Homeschooling is illegal in Germany!!??
They'll do the whole jackbooted thug routine, take away your kid, and haul you to jail.
The “cult” of Christianity? I would question which pot is calling this kettle black. Every church organization has unique doctrines and practices, otherwise their members would have drifted elsewhere. The word “cult” is just a pejorative.
(Hey, if the topic were sexual behavior, we could use the word “hetronormative” or “homophobic”. Now what is the Latin word for cult to properly construct “cult-phobic”?)
That is just crazy! Either there are too few people in Germany to care enough to get a change or there are a lot of people that are really don't want to go to jail.
I am not sure what faith the author adheres to, so is your argument that the author is of some faith that could also be called a cult or are you affixing that label to another faith yourself?
On one hand, the schools are usually very good. Their high school diploma equivalent is usually earned at age 19 and is the equivlanet of an associate's degree. Religion is also not banned, and in one school I know a class in religion (or philosophy if you object) was required to graduate. And private schools do exist. The only place the schools suck is in some neighborhoods with a high Turkish population.
All this means there is far less of an incentive to home school than here. On the other hand, Germans are somewhat more amenable to doing what they're told by the state.
You use the Greek to make phobia names, but "cult" comes from Latin meaning IIRC worship. Even if we use the Latin it might be hard to make the phobia name without implying it a phobia of worship in general.
LOL!
Personally I fear the word cult, which used to have one or two useful meanings, has become a way of slapping someone whose church you don't like with your glove.
“Cult” is the term used by majority Christians on lesser denominations they want to dismiss and denigrate.
The word "cult" has been hijacked as a pejorative, but the classical meaning is not deprecative at all. It is similar to the word "ignorant" which in common use today means "stupid" but classically meant "uneducated."
The term "cult" first appeared in English in 1617, derived from the French culte, meaning "worship" or "a particular form of worship" which in turn originated from the Latin word cultus meaning "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," also the past participle of colere "to till". In French, for example, sections in newspapers giving the schedule of worship at Catholic churches are headed Culte Catholique; the section giving the schedule of Protestant churches is headed culte réformé.
The meaning "devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829. Starting about 1920, c-u-l-t acquired an additional six or more connotatively positive and negative definitions that are separately discussed in other articles.
Is that true for England and France and other Euro countries?
Of course, Catholics believe that I'm in error, so there you go.
We all have some surprises waiting for us when we no longer see 'as through a glass darkly'.
I always find the “no worse than Catholics” argument funny. The article in question has nothing to do with Catholicism. It is open to critique based on its own merits or demerits. Doctrinal disagreements with Catholicism are best presented on threads concerning Catholic dogma, doctrines, and practices.
You do have to be careful around them Calf-licks. Mary-worshipping heathen! Papist Idolators! I even read from Jack Chick that the Pope created Islam and putting two and two together, which means he is partly responsible for 9-11.
I can't tell you positively, but I'd say in general, yes. Except I get the feeling that the former communist European countries aren't quite so compliant. They haven't forgotten what it's like to live under a too-powerful government.
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