Posted on 05/09/2008 1:19:18 PM PDT by NYer
.- The Holy Father and His Holiness Karekin II, the leader of the Armenian Apostolic Church, met privately at the Vatican this morning and then went on to pray the Midday Liturgy of the Hours with the Armenians delegation. The Holy Spirit, the Pope encouraged in his remarks to the group, can work miracles to bring about unity between Christians if we are open to Him.
The group of 75 Armenian faithful and 18 bishops gathered in the Clementine Hall with their patriarch to celebrate Midday Prayer, while the Holy Father led the prayers.
After the Patriarch's greeting, the Pope spoke to those assembled about the importance of striving for Christian unity.
Recalling that Sunday is the Solemnity of Pentecost, Benedict XVI said that, on this day, "we will pray in a particular way for the unity of the Church. (...) If our hearts and minds are open to the Spirit of communion, God can work miracles again in the Church, restoring the bonds of unity. Striving for Christian unity is an act of obedient trust in the work of the Holy Spirit, who leads the Church to the full realization of the Father's plan, in conformity with the will of Christ."
Pope Benedict also drew upon the history of the Armenian people, saying, "the recent history of the Armenian Apostolic Church has been written in the contrasting colors of persecution and martyrdom, darkness and hope, humiliation and spiritual re- birth."
This past Wednesday Patriarch Karekin II also picked up on the Armenian Church’s history at the general audience. Karekin II addressed the crowd of 20,000 in English and raised the killing of 1.5 million Armenians by Ottoman Turks in 1915 as an act of ‘genocide’. The Patriarch said that, “the denial of these crimes is an injustice that equals the commission of the same."
Benedict, however, pointed beyond the atrocity to "the restoration of freedom to the Church in Armenia” as “a source of great joy for us all.” He also praised the fact that ‘remarkable pastoral results that have been achieved in such a short time."
"Thanks to your pastoral leadership," the Pope assured, "the glorious light of Christ shines again in Armenia and the saving words of the Gospel can be heard once more. Of course, you are still facing many challenges on social, cultural, and spiritual levels. In this regard," he added, "I must mention the recent difficulties suffered by the people of Armenia, and I express the prayerful support of the Catholic Church in their search for justice and peace and the promotion of the common good".
Despite these obstacles, the Holy Father applauded the progress made over the last five years of ecumenical dialogue with the Armenian Church, saying, “important progress has been made in clarifying the doctrinal controversies that have traditionally divided us.”
Pope Benedict finished his address on a note of hope, praying that ecumenical dialogue “will bring us closer to full and visible communion, and that the day will come when our unity in faith makes possible a common celebration of the Eucharist. (...) Only when sustained by prayer and supported by effective cooperation, can theological dialogue lead to the unity that the Lord wishes for his disciples."
I’m not sure the kind of unity he’s talking about IS God’s will.
If God’s the boss, then unity is fine. If the Pope is the boss, sorry, no sale.
Not on the Popes life or mine will I unite.
See Jn. 17
I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
Sorry, but if I remember correctly from Bible School, the path is narrow, not open.
I buy that. Peace brother.
Amen. Thanks for the reply. And peace to you as well.
Had to go look up you screen name and I...........
“Sorry, but if I remember correctly from Bible School, the path is narrow, not open.”
That's a non sequitur.
The path may be narrow, but that isn't to what the Holy Father was speaking. Here is what he said:
“The Holy Spirit, the Pope encouraged in his remarks to the group, can work miracles to bring about unity between Christians if we are open to Him.”
He is encouraging openness to the Holy Spirit.
Are you saying that Christians aren't supposed to be open to the Holy Spirit?
sitetest
You wrote:
“Sorry, but if I remember correctly from Bible School, the path is narrow, not open.”
WE have to be open. You don’t believe that saves men against their will do you? Neither will men unite unless they are open to it.
That shoul be “You don’t believe that God saves men against their will do you?”
ROF....... :-)
The Florida outpouring will bring unity. www.freshfire.ca
Let's do it in time to stand by our brothers in Israel!
Jesus prayed that His followers might be one; but we are not to sacrifice the truth in order to secure this union, for we are to be sanctified through the truth. Here is the foundation of all true peace. Human wisdom would change all this, pronouncing this basis too narrow. Men would try to effect unity through concession to popular opinion, through compromise with the world, a sacrifice of vital godliness. But truth is God’s basis for the unity of His people.
Let’s not forget that the Palestinians are our brothers too.
Dr. Stephen Sizer discusses Christian Zionism, Part 1
Dr. Stephen Sizer discusses Christian Zionism, Part 2
Don’t be discouraged by all of the negative posts. The good news is that the negative posters are reading this material, and some of them will eventually have their hearts and minds opened by the grace of God.
I hope that you regard my reminder that truth is God’s basis for Christian unity as a positive thought.
No, I was referring to earlier posts. One of the hazards of FReeping from a blackberry is that it is more difficult to read every post.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9
I have read all about his type of "unity". The Catholic Church's earlier decrees declaring that there is no salvation outside submission to the Catholic Church have never been rescinded. The "Pope" in 2007 even reinforced that and said other Christian denominations were defective and not true churches only because they fail to recognize the primacy of the pope. Therefore it is very clear that he wants one church united UNDER HIS RULE. No thanks.
You wrote:
“Ummm, first of all...that mortal in the fancy robes ain’t my Holy Father. I only have one Holy Father and he is in Heaven. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Matthew 23:9”
So what do you call your dad? I guess you never actually call him dad or father, right?
“I have read all about his type of “unity”. The Catholic Church’s earlier decrees declaring that there is no salvation outside submission to the Catholic Church have never been rescinded.”
Uh, are you so sure there are such decrees? You are apparently collapsing submission to the pope into submission to the Church as necessary for salvation. This is yet another example of why I can’t take anti-Catholics seriously. They don’t know what they’re talking about.
“The “Pope” in 2007 even reinforced that and said other Christian denominations were defective and not true churches only because they fail to recognize the primacy of the pope.”
No. Sects are sects. It’s just that simple. To have a Church instead of a sect you need apostolic succession.
“Therefore it is very clear that he wants one church united UNDER HIS RULE. No thanks.”
He wants one Church. You don’t want a Church at all.
And as usual, you sure threw out the anti-Catholic card wildly. Maybe you can explain to me just what is anti-Catholic about me not submitting to the Pope, does that in itself denigrate your religion in some way? Is any disagreement with the way you do things considered anti-Catholic? That seems to be the norm around here. My argument is simply that the Pope wants unity, but only on his terms. That is not unity and for me to point out that fact is not anti-Catholic.
I'll tell you what...you can choose your way to salvation and if for you that is submitting to the Pope, great. As for me, I follow the path the Lord has provided in the Bible and it does not include allegiance to any single mortal man nor a physical church. We'll just let the Lord sort it out in the end, okay? But don't you dare tell me that I am not part of the Lord's church because I don't follow lockstep with the Pope.
you wrote:
“Anti-Catholic? I don’t want a church? Wow...you sure put alot of words into my mouth and you apparently even think you speak for the Lord.”
I said anti-Catholic because you used the same old, already refuted anti-Catholic ruse of distorting call no man father. And you prove this by not even attempting to answer my question as to what you call your own father! And you are clearly not interested in a Church or else you wouldn’t be in a sect. If you aren’t in a Church, then you’re either not a Christian at all or you are in a sect. Period.
“I don’t need to submit to a mortal man, aka a Pope, to be part of the Lord’s church. And you talk about other churches as if they are somehow unclean because they don’t follow your lead.”
No, I talk about sects being sects. Sects are what they are.
“It is the arrogant attitude of the Catholic Church in this respect that creates anti-Catholic sentiment.”
No. Protestants become Anti-Catholic because that is what they are taught. It is Protestant aarogance to believe that the source or cause of anti-Catholicism is Catholics rather than anti-Catholics themselves. Would you say it was the arrogance of Jews that created anti-semitic sentiment. No, you wouldn’t say that because it would make you look like a nut. But you feel perfectly comfortable blaming Catholics for hated of Catholics. Next you might suggest that if a Catholic whistles at a Protestant woman he deserves the lynching he gets, right?
“And as usual, you sure threw out the anti-Catholic card wildly. Maybe you can explain to me just what is anti-Catholic about me not submitting to the Pope, does that in itself denigrate your religion in some way?”
No, but your comments are the usual anti-Catholic nonsense.
“Is any disagreement with the way you do things considered anti-Catholic?”
No, but typical anti-Catholic comments - about which you apparently won’t answer simple questions - are a good indication of what you believe...unless you don’t even believe what you write.
“That seems to be the norm around here. My argument is simply that the Pope wants unity, but only on his terms. That is not unity and for me to point out that fact is not anti-Catholic.”
And again you are pretending you never posted that whole call no man father ruse. Remember that? You know, the thing that led me to write this to you: “So what do you call your dad? I guess you never actually call him dad or father, right?” Two questions that you can’t or won’t answer.
“I’ll tell you what...you can choose your way to salvation and if for you that is submitting to the Pope, great. As for me, I follow the path the Lord has provided in the Bible and it does not include allegiance to any single mortal man nor a physical church.”
You forget that Christ sent a Church. That’s in your Bible. You do realize that right? You can’y seperate Christ and His Body. Christ founded the Church, not your sect.
“We’ll just let the Lord sort it out in the end, okay?”
No. It’s already settled. Christ already sent the Church. This is unbelievable. First, you essentially attack the Church because you don’t like her views and then you say it doesn’t matter.
“But don’t you dare tell me that I am not part of the Lord’s church because I don’t follow lockstep with the Pope.”
You’re not part of the Church. Period. Don’t like me saying me that? Too bad. I don’t know why it bothers you? Why so sensitive about something you never cared about? Again, you’re in a sect, not a Church. Please don’t claim to be in the Church when you’re not and don’t get phony sensitive when someone points out the obvious. Your sect was founded yesterday, or last week, or last year, or a century ago, or two centuries ago or maybe just less than five centuries ago...but it was not founded by Christ, is not a Church, has no teaching authority, and might not even be remembered a century or two from now.
Those are the facts. And none of this is arrogance either. Your sect will come and go. The Church will remain. Oh, and I bet you call your father “Father” or “Dad” too. So much for your proof texting. Maybe you’ll get courageous enough to answer those questions, but I doubt it.
Your so-called facts are plain garbage, just more of the offensive arrogance indoctrinated into Catholic Church members that only serves to divide Christians. You have admitted that the Catholic Church doesn't want unity, they want control. So much for religious tolerance and constructive dialogue.
Thank you very much, you have just proved my point for me. Don't bother responding, it is pointless.
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