INHABITANTS OF THE MOON

Young Women's Journal Vol 3 ^ | February 6, 1892 | D. B Huntington

[Godzilla]

is The Holy Spirit an equal to The Father and The Word? What do the scriptures actually say about this? This can be our only guide.

OK, I’ll comment on your scripture selection then look deeper at the equality issue.

[Genesis 1:1-2] …. The Spirit of God was moving over the waters. Was this "The Holy Spirit"?

I would say yes.

[Genesis 1:26] Was the image man made in....the image of God....or was it made in the image of an invisible spirit?

First, this image and likeness of God in man is expounded in Eph 4:24 where it is written that man was created after God in righteousness and true holiness meaning by these two words, all perfection, as wisdom, truth, innocence, power, etc. So that being a physical creation, we have an eternal spirit.

[John 1:1-3] Both The Father and The Son are here referred to as God. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned.

This is the prologue to the Gospel of Christ, the Holy Spirit is present in the Gospel, but for the readers John emphasizes the Godhood of Jesus.

[John 15:10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Here Our Lord is indicating He is not a co-equal with God.....and The Holy Spirit is not mentioned.

Two misinterpretations on your part here. 1. As the God-Man, Jesus as man was made “a little lower than the angels” and as such He submitted himself to the commandments (law of Moses). It is this context that must be kept in mind. 2. Although the Three Persons of the Trinity are equally God, there is an organization and order to how they work as a unified God. Paul would say that this is still much of a mystery, but from Jesus’ teachings Jesus proceed from the Father and the Spirit from the Father and Son. What you may have missed are Jesus’ words that any sin against himself (Jesus) would be forgiven, however blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not. So there is a special relationship given to the Spirit not given to Jesus.

[Matthew 10:19-20] But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. .....but The Spirit of your Father....The Holy Spirit.

You only cite the verse here, but from your last lines – yes the term Spirit of your Father is another name/title for the Holy Spirit just as the Son of Man another title for Jesus.

[Romans 8:9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. The Spirit of God and The Spirit of Christ.....The Holy Spirit!

See my previous answer – another equivalent title for the Holy Spirit. There is, apparently, subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence. We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16)..

Now regarding you general question on whether the Spirit is equal to the Father and the Son. The Spirit has the same attributes and the other two – Eternal (Heb 9:14), Omnipotent (Lk 1:35), Omnipresent (Ps 139:7-10), has Will (1 Cor 12:11), Loves ((rom 15:30), and Speaks (Acts 8:29; 13:2), just to name a few. Subordination should not be equated with being ‘lesser’ or equal.

From The Encyclopedia Britannica (1976) Page 241: "Biblical Basis-neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine as such appears at any one place in the Bible. The ecclesiastical dogma (man made law) is an effort to unite in one confession all the several strains of the Biblical description of God".

You are not telling me anything new. First of all, it is illogical to claim that since the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible that its concept is not taught therein. This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Instead, the person should look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.
 Second, there are many biblical concepts that people believe in that don't have a specific word describing them used in the Bible. For example, the word "bible" is not found in the Bible, but we use it anyway to describe the Bible. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God. We don't have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true.

The Trinity must be read into the sacred text and is not substantiated by any scripture. This is one of the reasons we find the "Johannine Comma" in [1 John 5:7-8].....the sequence of extra words in eight later manuscripts (marginal notes in four of these later manuscripts)....attempting to legitimize this concept. The idea of a Trinity is not scriptural but had been made dogma by Nicaea....therefore putting the might of Imperial Rome behind the enforcement of this theology.

Your repetition of the Johannine comma citation was already dealt with, and with the number of verses supporting the Divinity of the Holy Spirit as well as the Trinity in this as well as the last post is being redundant – argument by repetition. We have been looking at a lot of scripture that substantiates the Trinity. This was taught as truth in the church from the first century on. Your are repeating your self (argument by repetition), and Johannie Comma has not been necessary for me for any of them. A creed was formulated at Nicea that wrapped up the historic teaching of the church through the ages. Your phraseology is sounding canned, so I will post SOME of the historical teachings from the first century on to indicate that the Trinity was taught from very early on in addition to those I have/will present from the scriptures.:

Ignatius of Antioch (AD 107) There is then one God and Father, and not two or three; One who is; and there is no other besides Him, the only true [God[. For the "Lord thy God," saith [the Scripture], "is one Lord." And again, "Hath not one God created us? Have we not all one Father?" And the is also one Son, God the Word. 
Letter to the Philippians, Ch II
There are not then either three Fathers, or three Sons, or three Paracletes, but one Father, and one Son, and one Paraclete. Wherefore also the Lord, when He sent forth the apostles to make disciples of all nations, commanded them to "baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," not unto one [person] having three names, nor into three [persons] who became incarnate, but into three possessed of equal honor. Letter to the Philippians, Ch II

Ignatius shows from the first generation after the apostles, the teaching of the Trinity was established. And I have plenty more where this come from to also show that the Trinity was used to describe God nearly 200 years before Nicaea. Did they use that exact term at the time? That is uncertain, but there was no need to at the time. As challenges to the doctrine of the church pressed in, the creedal and doctrinal statements were formalized as seen in Nicaea.

BTW, incase you didn’t know it, Constantine later became an Arian – the teaching that was shown from scriptures to be heretical at Nicaea. So don’t hold too tightly to Constantine and the might of Rome’s enforcement.

[John 14:16-18]

I address this passage later on.

Have both God and The Word [John 1:1] existed for all time? [Psalm 90:2][Psalm 102:25-27][1 Timothy 1:17] Yes!

In your excitement you have begun to shot gun, so I’ll just take it a little slower and state what you are trying to show a little more clearly, I hate having to waste time second guessing. John 1 tells us that Jesus is eternal and IS God (Trinity) – that definition includes the Holy Spirit. Same too with Psalms and 1 Tim – God is a reference to the Trinity as a whole. Where it speaks of God – it is within the context of the Trinity. Where the reference is to separate Persons, it would and has been done elsewhere.

Did Christ indicate that His image and that of The Lord God are the same? [John 14:9] Yes!

Lets look at context shall we. First, the setting is the last supper, Jesus is giving His last teaching before being arrested and crucified. Jesus is telling them He will soon depart from the earth. Thomas doesn’t understand where Jesus is going and the way (vs 5). Jesus tells him He is the Way, Truth and Life. He then tell them if they knew (ginosko - learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel; to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of; in an intimate way), they would know the Father. Vs 8 Philip wanted a literal sight of God with the natural eyes, when God incarnate had been present with him for three years, manifesting the mind, the purity, the saving power, the fatherly tenderness, the unutterable love of the Father. Vs 9 Jesus rebukes Phillip for failing to learn. Vs 10-11 Jesus states His oneness as God the Son with the Father. So in this verse is Jesus telling the disciples the Father looks like him? No, His image reflects the spiritual characteristics of the Father, not physical resemblance as the rebuke in Vs 9 makes clear.

Were we created in this image or were we patterned after an invisible spirit? [Genesis 1:26] Does the Spirit of the Lord permeate the entire universe? [Psalm 139:7][Jeremiah 27:5]

I answered above regarding Gen 1 earlier, an additional reply is that the image man is created in is that of a religious/spiritual being like the angels that is we have an eternal spirit and that spirit is neither losable or reducible, but its ethical direction can be changed (free will). (The New Bible Commentary:Revised). Since you say following verses:

....almost like a broadcast signal and God is the transmitter of His Spirit.....His Spirit....not a different member of a Triune Godhead. [John 4:24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

You are not making any sense. God is a spirit - that is has no flesh, blood or body parts – non corporeal. Again when God is referenced in this fashion it is the Triune God, not separate individuals, being referred to. Now it seems that you are trying to build a argument that there is no God the Holy Spirit, only God the Father and God the Son. Then you need to backtrack a little back to John 14 again. Following Jesus’ teaching in verse 16 Jesus says:

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Here Jesus is making very clear that it is not the Father or Himself, but the third – the Comforter, another title of the Holy Spirit. Here it is very clear that this is a third Person since it is not of the Father or the Son. Please note the personal pronoun he in reference to the Spirit. If you look, you will see the personal pronoun him is used in association with the Spirit too. And so you don’t get too excited:

18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Jesus’ words I will come to you is the future tense of erchomai in the sense of returning in the future. Same word found in Verse 3. Further evidence that the Holy Spirit is neither the Father or the Son but the Third Person of the Trinity is found in Matthew:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19

. This is BTW also a strong Trinitarian Formula noting the name is a singular, and three Persons with the common name that of God. Thus the Holy Spirit is not a divine force or influence but is a Person in His own right.

Now if you are trying to say that the Father or the Son becomes the Spirit, you are playing with modalism, which is something that is without support in scripture.

Now with the above answers, I think it is reasonably clear, from them that your overarching question of is The Holy Spirit an equal to The Father and The Word? is relatively well covered. In addition to holding all the characteristics of God, the Holy Spirit is referred to using personal pronouns setting Him apart and separate from the Father and the Son, yet remaining one in unity within the Godhead of the Triune God. The Holy Spirit also has privileges the Father and Son do not have, but that there is a separation of work within the Trinity that does not make any of the Persons subordinate or inferior to the others. Now it seems to me that you are uncertain of what other points you are trying to make. The clearer your questions are, the better I can try to provide an answer to them.

[DelphiUser]

This again? ...sigh.

Well Said, I have lost track of how many times this sloppy un-sourcable story has been refuted, Anyone who actually does research can find this charge is baseless, so of course it keeps being brought up by those who don't research what they say, but just post talking points from some anti site.

Again, well done and your patience seems to know no bounds...

[Elsie]

After all, he was inspired and spoke “truth.”

Except when he spoke as a mere, sinful man. (Which was a LOT!)

--MormonDude(When would be a good time for a couple of our fine young folks [highly trained; I might add] to stop by your home and more fully explain the Restored Gospel?)

[Elsie]

Close examination reveals that Huntington was only ten years old when he was given this blessing and that his recollections were made over fifty years later.

The record shows (one of them, anyway) that Joseph Smith was merely a bible ignorant 14 yo, when he was deceived by two PERSONAGES, hovering in the air in a very bright light.

When he 'recalled' this event much later, there were many versions of it.

[Elsie]

Even if it turned out that the prophet held these views, nowhere does scripture suggest that a prophet is not allowed to speculate about things that haven't been revealed.

It appears that JS's followers ARE allowed to SPECULATE about whether certain veiws are held or not.

[Elsie]

Others have Seen the hole, and that is good enogh for me!

—MormonDude(I believe it is there.)

[Elsie]

That's what I get for relying on someone else's statements ...

Hold this concept.

[Elsie]

The tone is mocking, sarcastic and sometimes just plain mean.

As it SHOULD be!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19   17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!   18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.   19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”   20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

 

 

[Elsie]

Now I don't except myself from this because I'm not perfect but it seems like threads like this would serve to illustrate one thing about Christians: That they love to belittle and mock others.

Now I don't except myself from this because I'm not perfect but it seems like threads like this would serve to illustrate one thing about MORMONS: That they love to go door-to-door telling 'christians' that THEIR church is wrong and invite them to the Truth and Light of the LDS Organization®.

[Elsie]

 

The tone is mocking, sarcastic and sometimes just plain mean. None of these attitudes and behaviors can be remotely considered Christian.

 

 

 

Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23

 

 1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
 2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
 3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
 4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
 5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
 6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
 7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
 8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
 9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

 

[Puddleglum]

It is hollow and, yes, inhabited. We each have a doppleganger there.

[Elsie]

I can't tell you how you should respond, but I can tell you how I would.

I would begin by looking at my own motivations.

Am I interested in responding because I want to be right?

Am I interested in responding because I've got a grudge?

Am I interested in responding for any selfish, prideful reasons?

 

An example of #18

 

 

 

 

                       Standard LDS responses to data put to them:

 

Shorthand	Reference:
1. How you interpret it is wrong...	(Need a source)
2. You are too ignorant to really understand it because you are not a member....	(Need a source)
3. You're not qualified to judge because you're no LONGER a member...	(Need a source)
4. You are just a bigot for bringing the whole ugly truth to light ...	(Need a source)
5. So’s yer Mama!	(Need a source)
6. Laugh it all off and post some silly image.	(Need a source)
7. Jump down the rabbit hole; Alice!	http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1982682/posts?page=683#683
8. Bait & Switch	(Need a source)
9. The OTHER 'half' of the truth is what we are avoiding.	(Need a source)
10. "I Know It When I See It"	(Need a source)
11. Hand waving...	(Need a source)
12. YOU play defense for a while.	http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1982682/posts?page=944#944
13. HEE Hee hee... let's get the Calvinists and the Armenians fighting!	http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1994515/posts?page=15#15
14. GREAT FUN! Let's get the Catholics and the Protestants fighting!	(Need a source)
15. Huh? Did you say something?	(Need a source)
16. If I repeat this enough times some folks will be fooled into thinking it's true.	http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1997522/posts?page=2252#2252
17. Playing dumb.	(Need a source)
18. Refusing to answer because your ATTITUDE offends them.	(Need a source)
19. (Let's see if they'll fall for the 'Defend a freak' ploy.)	(Need a source)
20. And the MOST used...  IGNORE what they posted and answer the question that SHOULD have been asked.	http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=UMJvqBq_Qa8
21. Threatening other FReepers with legal action because they annoy you with facts. (E-Danite-ism)	http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2008967/posts?page=335#335

 

 

 

 

 

" The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success

unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly -

- it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

[Elsie]

If you think that the LDS church teaches false doctrine, then give true doctrine.

 

 

I'm waiting for an answer to THIS question first:

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19   17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!   18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.   19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”   20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

 

 

"Just what did Joseph Smith 'learn' to be UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANISM?"

 

 

 

There are no MORMONS on these threads that have an answer!!

 

Yet; their very LIVES & SOULS depend on it being true!

[Elsie]

Rebuke by showing how certain things run contrary to God's word.

Ok...

---

 

Galatians 1:7-10
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:14-15
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

 Revelation 13:13-15
 13.  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
 14.  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”  

 

It appears that EXPERIENCES can be deceiving...

 

 

If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.

 

 

If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH GOT IT WRONG, NOT THR PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH.

Indeed!

JS got enough stuff wrong on his own!

[Gamecock]

There is a genuine FR Mormon who I gladly provided numerous answers to on the topic of Reformed Theology.

One day this individual read something and totally twisted it into some question that didn't even resemble the cited text, and then expected me to answer their question. When I asked for the exact place in the cited source that cause our dear Mormon friend some consternation, which interestingly originated from a Presbyterian web site, this person accused me of evading the question.

[Elsie]

Just because a lust-fulled guy wants to set up a harem of one night stands, he thinks he can say God told him to do so ???

 

Did someone say LUSTFILLED???

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2 Nephi 3:12     Wherefore, the fruit of thy loins write; and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together,

2 Nephi 3:18      And the Lord said unto me also: I will raise up unto the fruit of thy loins; and I will make for him a spokesman. And I, behold, I will give unto him that he shall write the writing of the fruit of thy loins, unto the fruit of thy loins; and the spokesman of thy loins shall declare it.

 

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 27   Thus saith the Lord God of my fathers unto me, A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins, and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins; and unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren.

Joseph Smith Translation Gen. 50: 31    Wherefore the fruit of thy loins shall write, and the fruit of thy loins of Judah shall write; and that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins, and also that which shall be written by the fruit of thy loins of Judah, shall grow together

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She's BACk and she's BAD!

[Elsie]

"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the prophets, seers, revelators' of the church, is cultivating the spirit of apostacy. One cannot speak evil of the lord's annointed... and retain the holy spirit in his heart. This sort of game is Satan's favorite pastime, and he has practiced it to believing souls since Adam. He {Satan} wins a great victory when he can get members of the church to speak against their leaders and to do their own thinking."

 

 

WE sure don't see much of THIS!

[Elsie]

 

WOW old third party story teller and you are trying to pitch it here!

 

 

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 Galatians 1:6-9
 6.  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--
 7.  which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
 9.  As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (niv)

 

 

 

ANYBODY???

 

Like this fine looking fellow???

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
 12.  And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
 13.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
 15.  It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. (niv)

Like THESE guys??

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

 

 

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Ephesians 2:1-2

   As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,  in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

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KJV 1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

KJV 1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

 

 KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

KJV 2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

 

KJV 2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.