Posted on 05/13/2008 6:25:09 AM PDT by Terriergal
Beijing - The son of American evangelist Billy Graham said Friday he is opposed to missionary work at this summer's Beijing Olympic Games.
Franklin Graham, also an evangelist, was speaking to reporters Friday during a visit to Beijing for meetings with the Communist Party-controlled Protestant church movement. He said he wanted to encourage authorities to resolve conflicts with the church, but would not criticize policies that critics say limit the church's independence and religious rights.
While some Christian groups have said they plan to proselytize during the August games, Graham said he was against that because Chinese law does not permit such actions. "I would not support any illegal activity at all," Graham said.
While the Protestant church has grown rapidly in China in recent years, the party maintains strict control over the official church, seminaries and individual congregations. Christians who meet in independent, unauthorized congregations — often private homes — are frequently subject to harassment and arrest.
In the most recent such report, police raided a gathering of about 40 members of the Chengdu Qiuyu Blessings Church at a resort near the southwestern city of Chengdu on May 2, New York-based Human Rights Watch reported. Officers joined by officials of the local religious affairs bureau told the participants they were "suspected of being involved in illegal religious practices," the group said. Members were detained for hours and photographed, and Bibles, hymnals and Bible study materials were confiscated.
Separately, three leaders of unauthorized churches in the eastern province of Shandong were detained during a Bible study group last Thursday morning, the Texas-based monitoring group, China Aid Association reported. Among them, one pastor from Taiwan was expelled and banned from returning to China for five years as part of China's ban on missionary work of all types.
Graham, whose mother was born in China where her father worked as a physician, said he had seen improvements in religious freedoms in the 20 years since he had been coming to the country, but said Christians in China must obey the law as they work with authorities to "resolve these areas of misunderstanding or where there is tension."
"I think the government of China is recognizing that more and more and are seeing the value of a personal faith that people can have and so I'm here to encourage that," Graham said. "I'm not here to condemn, I'm here to work with them and help to build better bridges of understanding between Christians and government," he said.
Except during the Olympics or when in hostile territory, I guess.
I guess that rules out ALL of the muslim world...
Legality and correctness are often wrongly equated. Graham, like his dad, is a point scorer with the Chicoms; that’s all.
The "patriotic" Reformed churches and the "patriotic" Catholic Church in China are informers and spies for the regime against the real Catholics and evangelicals who risk imprisonment and expropriation every day for the faith.
While the Graham family gives speeches at the "patriotic" churches and seminaries of China and meets with the government functionaries who are charged with keeping a lid on evangelism there are brother and sister believers in nearby prisons suffering like St. Paul.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
If we apply that verse to these types of evangelical leaders, we wont be deceived by them. Rick Warren, Billy/Franky Graham.
Now we know what he will do when public evangelism is outlawed in the US under the guise of ‘hate speech’ laws.
James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
James 4:4
My blueletterbible.com was faster than yours by 3 seconds.
This looks like a hit piece on Graham.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach AdonaiHere is another view of Graham and China:
Then they [the Sanhedrin] called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard." ~ Acts 4:18-20
I’m amazed we came up with the same verse and they ended up back to back on this post.
How do you read Paul to the Colossians:shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach AdonaiNAsbU Colossians 3:22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your
masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely
please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.
I always heard that her father was a foreign missionary but didn't know he was a doctor. She grew up in China.
Dr. L. Nelson Bell was both, a Presbyterian missionary and an MD.
Col 3:22 must be interpreted by Scripture. Might I suggest Acts 3 & 4, summed up by chapter 4:17 - 21:
17 But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.
18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.
21 So when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding nothing how they might punish them, because of the people: for all men glorified God for that which was done.
They cannot stop us from praying for their conversion, safety and strength for the fight. I hope there are many teams of prayer warriors during the Olympics doing just that.
Amen and I agree with you. Nor can they stop the Christians in communist China from doing like wise.
This book http://epm.org/safelyhome.html tells a powerful tale of the true church in commy China. They do not pray for an end to the persecution. Many Chinese Christians have seen the western churches in free countries and see the persecution from the Chinese government as God’s hand on the church to keep her from becoming friends with the world. They do ask us who are wealthy to send Bibles to them, for His Words are life.
I encourage people to give to http://bibleleague.org/ They print sound versions of Scripture in many languages, plant churches, train pastors, in countries that hate the Lord. It only costs $4 to send a Bible to China. How many Bibles can we send if we gave up one good meal a week?
Didn’t his dad Billy give the same consideration to the Soviets? The Soviet authorities more or less tolerated the state Russian Orthodox Church, but persecuted Baptists, Pentecostals, Jews, and others.
Because to do so would be fearing the Lord?
Because to do so would be fearing the Lord?
What Paul is saying is: We are not of this world; we belong to Yah'shua. Why do you seek to twist and pervert the Word of Elohim?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
You don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Franklin Graham and his father are Chinese communist sympathizers? What planet are you living on? They have laid down their very lives and souls for spreading the gospel of Jesus all around this globe. Just because he is choosing to not disrespect the Chinese govt when he wisely knows he will make much more effective headway by keeping clear of action that will cause unnecessary attention on them by their government, doesn’t make them Communist bedmates.
Get a grip. How many of YOU Christians are laying your lives on the line for your faith these days? You all don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Are YOU going into all the world to preach the gospel, or can you not even get away from your computer screen long enough to talk to a live person about the precious gift of salvation in Christ?
Put down the remote — shut down your computer — and GO INTO ALL THE WORLD yourselves. Stop criticizing the Apostle Paul’s of the planet who are living, breathing examples of Jesus to a lost and dying world.
I don’t do chinese.
Billy Graham is no modern-day Apostle Paul - not by a long shot. You should study Billy’s universalist views sometime; they are no secret. Google is your friend.
A very ironic comment.
The Grahams, by discouraging evangelization and speaking up against it, are not doing what they are supposed to do.
Your justification for their behavior is that Paul counseled Christian slaves to sincerely obey their masters.
That bit of prooftexting implies that the Grahams are slaves, presumably of the Chinese government, and that they do well to follow their masters' bidding by discouraging evangelization in China.
In reality, the Grahams are not slaves, but free men - so the prooftext doesn't apply at all. However, even if they were slaves, discouraging evangelization would still be wrong.
Unless one is prepared to argue that Paul intended to teach that slaves are bound by divine law to do wrong, then it is clear that this prooftext has nothing to do with the matter at hand and that the Grahams' behavior is not justifiable.
And it is consequently a twisting and perversion of the Word of God to cite Paul to defend such behavior.
Especially since Paul was, as the Grahams claim to be, a missionary of Christ in foreign lands - and Paul never ceased preaching the Gospel.
What Paul is saying is: We are not of this world; we belong to Yah'shua.
In this specific passage Paul is advising slaves to serve their masters in a spirit of humility and Christian charity, knowing that the master they are truly serving is the Lord.
Paul is not giving free men a ready excuse to collaborate with the enemies of the Gospel in suppressing the Gospel.
The Grahams maintain the purity and simplicity of the gospel for these last generations in a way that no one else has or can. God help us when they are no longer here to provide the mature and powerful leadership our world so desparately needs.
Then I eagerly await your breathtakingly profound instruction.
Franklin Graham and his father are Chinese communist sympathizers?
I said nothing of the kind. They are collborators with the Chinese regime. Collaborators don't necessarily sympathize with their cohorts.
What planet are you living on?
The same planet on which the Grahams have appeared in smiling photo ops with Chinese state functionaries whose job is to suppress the Gospel.
They have laid down their very lives and souls for spreading the gospel of Jesus all around this globe.
They are indeed jet-setting celebrity evangelists. They may well be laying down their souls - I can't speculate.
But the people who are actually laying down their lives are the underground Chinese Christians whose sworn enemies the Grahams pal around with.
The Grahams, honored guests of the Chinese state, are not laying down their lives in China. They're tourists.
Just because he is choosing to not disrespect the Chinese govt when he wisely knows he will make much more effective headway by keeping clear of action that will cause unnecessary attention on them by their government, doesn’t make them Communist bedmates.
I agree that the Grahams definitely have far more respect for the Chinese government than they do for the suffering Chinese believers - I would not suggest that they have shown any disrespect for the government of China at all.
Does the government of China deserve respect? I digress, that's a separate question.
So we have on the one hand the impoverished, oppressed Chinese Christians who have spent three generations now bravely resisting the government's orders to join the official state church. They have suffered execution, imprisonment, torture, expropriation and ostracism for years rather than worship in a "church" where Jesus is portrayed as a precursor to Mao.
On the other hand, we have the wealthy, freedom-enjoying American evangelists who are the honored guests of the official state "church" and who ignore the real Christians of China and their sufferings while paying elaborate obeisance to their oppressors.
What example does this set? You speak of "unnecessary attention" - the Christians of China are under constant surveillance already. Their every move is watched and documented and filed away for a future show trial. If only their supposed brother from America - a man completely safe from the violence of the Chinese regime - would say a word on behalf of the oppressed and imprisoned Christians of China!
But no, that would be disrespectful.
Get a grip. How many of YOU Christians are laying your lives on the line for your faith these days?
Flying in a jet plane to a state dinner in Beijing is "laying your life on the line?" Fascinating.
You all don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
Oh, you've already told us how little we know. We all are basking in your incredible wisdom and encyclopaedic knowledge as I write.
Are YOU going into all the world to preach the gospel, or can you not even get away from your computer screen long enough to talk to a live person about the precious gift of salvation in Christ?
Another ironically self-referential comment. If anyone on this thread gets it into their head to witness to another person about Christ remember: do not do it in China. The Grahams have spoken: sharing Christ with Chinese people would be disrespectful to the Chinese government. And if the Bible teaches us anything, it is apparently that it is the duty of every Christian to help the Chinese government to suppress the Gospel.
Put down the remote — shut down your computer — and GO INTO ALL THE WORLD yourselves.
What if we don't have a chartered jet?
Stop criticizing the Apostle Paul’s of the planet who are living, breathing examples of Jesus to a lost and dying world.
The Apostle Paul was not in the habit of collaborating with the government in suppressing the Gospel. Saul the Pharisee was - the Apostle Paul not so much.
Perhaps the Grahams have not yet had their Damascus moment.
But thanks for enlightening all of us who didn't know what we were talking about. Before you set me straight I thought that the "living, breathing examples of Jesus to a lost and dying world" were the brave Chinese underground believers suffering in Chinese prisons for their uncompromising belief in Christ.
Now I know that it is the wealthy American preacher smiling and shaking hands with the guy who is imprisoning them.
all I can say is — WOW! Are you a very bitter person or WHAT???? You sure spent a big hunk of your life today coming back to me to prove that the Grahams don’t live authentic lives of service before God because of a “photograph” or what method of transportation they use in modeling the life of Jesus to the world.
You think because they’re not beaten or shipwrecked for the cause of Christ that it makes their message and ministry less effective? Hhhmmm....interesting. And to actually say about someone who preaches the gospel so eloquently and effectively and passionately, that you question whether they’ve had a “Damascus” experience? Wow.
You should be careful, if you are a professing Christian, my friend. The manner you judge these other brothers in the Lord, is the identical manner in which you yourself will be judged. I didn’t say it, by the way. Someone much Greater than I said it first. You really want to establish that standard with God? I hope not.
Be careful, my friend. He’s watching and listening to everything.
You must be right. As you stated above, no one except you knows what they are talking about.
You sure spent a big hunk of your life today coming back to me to prove that the Grahams don’t live authentic lives of service before God because of a “photograph” or what method of transportation they use in modeling the life of Jesus to the world.
The precise matter at issue is whether jetsetting around the world to hobnob with dictators is modeling the life of Christ or not.
You think because they’re not beaten or shipwrecked for the cause of Christ that it makes their message and ministry less effective? Hhhmmm....interesting.
Not at all.
What I think is that you claimed that they were like Paul and that they lay down their lives.
In reality, they are not really like Paul in key respects and they do not lay down their lives.
One does not need to be able to make such extravagant claims to have an effective ministry - but you were indeed making such extravagant claims for their ministry.
And to actually say about someone who preaches the gospel so eloquently and effectively and passionately, that you question whether they’ve had a “Damascus” experience? Wow.
I do not claim the authority to instruct football stadiums full of people in theology, but I am pretty sure that agreeing to help officially discourage the spread of the Gospel in an entire country is not really consistent with the Gospel.
As an aside, neither eloquence or passion are necessary for an effective ministry.
The most effective ministries I've observed are ministries of example. And helping suppress the Gospel in China is a very bad example.
You should be careful, if you are a professing Christian, my friend. The manner you judge these other brothers in the Lord, is the identical manner in which you yourself will be judged.
Indeed. The Judge will settle once and for all whether the right course of action is to help the underground Christians of China or to help their government oppress them.
My conscience tells me that the former is the right course, and that the latter course is wrong.
I didn’t say it, by the way. Someone much Greater than I said it first. You really want to establish that standard with God? I hope not. Be careful, my friend. He’s watching and listening to everything.
He certainly is.
He is watching the Christian mother in China crammed into a jail cell with thieves and murderers as she is denied visits from her children and her husband all because she witnessed to Christ.
And He is watching as an eloquent and passionate American preacher is eloquently and passionately defending the policies of the men who keep that woman in prison.
He is also watching the people who defend the actions of the latter.
During WWII many good Christians kept their mouth shut but did God's work underground. Right now can there be any doubt that there are Christians in the Middle East, China, and elsewhere that are hunker down but quietly doing God's work? At the same time, like Elijah, there are some that boldfully proclaim the word in these countries. How can we say what is right or wrong?
Personally, I don't believe Frank Graham should say one way or another. People have to decide for themselves how they feel God wants them to react under this situation.
Praise God for the Graham family.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.