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Bible Bill Passes (TN) House
WRCB Chattanooga ^ | May 14, 2008 | Rachel Withers

Posted on 05/14/2008 8:53:00 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana

Nashville, TN (WRCB-TV/Associated Press) A controversial bill requiring Tennessee's public schools to offer an elective bible course is making its way to Gov. Phil Bredesen.

The legislation unanimously passed the Senate last week and was approved overwhelmingly in the House Tuesday. If Gov. Bredesen signs the legislation, public schools will soon be required to offer bible as an elective course taught with an approved textbook. The Tennessee Department of Education would create a uniform bible curriculum.

This legislation does come with some safeguards. It prohibits the use of any religious test when assigning teachers to the bible class.

For many Tennessee school districts, this idea is nothing new. In Hamilton county, schools have offered an elective bible class for the last 87 years.

Stay with Eyewitness News and wrcbtv.com for the latest updates on what Gov. Bredesen decides.


TOPICS: Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bible; curriculum; education; tennessee
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What will Gov Bredesen decide ???

How long will it take for the ACLU to scream ????

1 posted on 05/14/2008 8:53:01 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: bert; cva66snipe; DannyTN; don-o; fieldmarshaldj; girlangler; Grammy; hometoroost; Ingtar; ...

TN PING


2 posted on 05/14/2008 8:55:32 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana; Diogenesis

Are there bitter folks clinging to guns and religion there?

(need that cartoon)


3 posted on 05/14/2008 8:56:03 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: F15Eagle

Are there bitter folks clinging to guns and religion there?
__________________________________________________

Yep, that there is we’uns

Except we’uns is sweet..

:)


4 posted on 05/14/2008 8:58:53 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

lol


5 posted on 05/14/2008 9:02:09 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, John 11:25, 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13, John 6:69)
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To: Tennessee Nana

atheists, liberals, ACLU, dimoRATS -— the enemies of God are already lining up


6 posted on 05/14/2008 9:04:08 AM PDT by kingattax (99 % of liberals give the rest a bad name)
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To: Tennessee Nana

great, all we will need then is creationism science taught alongside all evolution teachings and we will see a big drop in juvenile crime and alot happier kids. I would rather work 25 hours a day than send my kids to a public school nowadays...that is when I have kids.


7 posted on 05/14/2008 9:05:29 AM PDT by fabian
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To: F15Eagle; Tennessee Nana; CrappieLuck; Grammy

Yep, another gun totin’, Bible thumpin’ Tennessean checking in!!!!

Bredesen won’t sign this bill.

F15 Eagle, I wish I knew how to post the pics of the legendary moonshiner busted here recently (for the fifth, sixth time), Popcorn Sutton. I posted a thread on “Popcorn” when they busted him, and other freepers posted lots of pics of him. They are hilarious/classics!!!


8 posted on 05/14/2008 9:07:21 AM PDT by girlangler (Fish Fear Me)
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To: Tennessee Nana

keep us posted and good luck!


9 posted on 05/14/2008 9:08:25 AM PDT by AprilfromTexas
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To: Tennessee Nana

A “Controversial” “Elective” Bible course.

Controversial & Elective?

The leftist scum sure hates the idea of choice when it’s not involving the murder of innocent unborn babies, don’t they?


10 posted on 05/14/2008 9:08:30 AM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg ("Shut the hell up, New York Times, you sanctimonious whining jerks!" - Craig Ferguson)
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To: Tennessee Nana; girlangler

Thanks for the ping Nana. You are right girl.... Bredesen won’t sign it. He is not from around here (I don’t care how long he has lived here... he isn’t a southerner at heart...) so he won’t sign it.


11 posted on 05/14/2008 9:17:28 AM PDT by Grammy
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To: Tennessee Nana

its not the governments business to educate religious doctrine.

like sex education in the schools. It has no business there. It should (or should not if you feel that way) be taught at home.


12 posted on 05/14/2008 9:22:05 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: Grammy

3 years ago he vetoed 2 good Bills about the illegal aliens...

One of them had much off the same words as GA..

At about the same time he threw thousands of senior citizens off TennCare so that he could balance our state budget (required by the TN Constitution..) Many of the seniors were dying of cancer etc and needed medicine...They either died or their children are still paying their medical bills..

He and Jimmy Naifeh stopped some good Bills this year...

One of them would have required proof of American citizenship before the applicant received bennies and TennCare...

The Bill would have saved us millions but was considered unfair to illegal aliens...

Now Gov Bredesen is crying again that he has to cut $500 million from the budgect...

Which American citizens will suffer this time ????

The illegal aliens in TN are a protected group, but it’s always open season on the American citizens ..


13 posted on 05/14/2008 9:27:56 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

We had an elective Bible class in our high school 25 years ago.


14 posted on 05/14/2008 9:33:04 AM PDT by Abigail Adams
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To: Tennessee Nana

I don’t care if it’s elective. If I am Jewish, will some part of my tax dollars go to pay for this Bible class for others? How is that fair??

If those taking the class want to pay for it, that’s fine. But keep your hands out of my wallet! I’ll teach my own kids religion, thanks very much.


15 posted on 05/14/2008 9:33:04 AM PDT by FRForever (http://www.constitutionparty.com)
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To: FRForever

That is a good point, but half of the Bible is the Old Testament...

The words of Moses, David, Isaiah and the other prophets who are part of the Torah, etc...

In Israel, the New Testament of The Bible is taught in the public schools because it contains a history of the Jews...


16 posted on 05/14/2008 9:42:38 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

> That is a good point, but half of the Bible is the Old Testament...

Well, let’s see... why don’t we teach Christian Science then? Since the Bible is one of their holy books, and the other is by some potty old Boston lady. It’s half of what you want. Is that good enough for you?


17 posted on 05/14/2008 9:46:40 AM PDT by FRForever (http://www.constitutionparty.com)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Sounds like a generally good idea, but it could have been done better, and more resistant to the ACLU. How about authorizing elective religion courses in general? Courses would be developed and taught based on parent and student interest. The first one out the gate of course would be one on the Bible because that would have the most interest. After a while you’d probably end up with courses on the the Tanakh and Talmud for Jews, and maybe the Koran for Muslims.

As long as it’s educational and not proselytizing I don’t see how any reasonable person can have a problem with such a system. I know, I know, we’re not dealing with reasonable leftists here.


18 posted on 05/14/2008 9:58:04 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Tennessee Nana

Which bible?


19 posted on 05/14/2008 10:09:28 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore
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To: antiRepublicrat

Comparative Religions ???


20 posted on 05/14/2008 10:13:16 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
A separate elective course is completely unnecessary. Given the Bible's massive importance to English literature and the Western canon, it should be a key component to higher-level high school English courses.

This shouldn't be a church/state issue at all. It shouldn't be Bible Study or a theological look. I think even the most fervently religious agree. Do you really want a schoolteacher supercedeing your priest or pastor for religious teachings? I thought not.

21 posted on 05/14/2008 10:52:00 AM PDT by Reaganomical
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To: Tennessee Nana

I’ll be screaming right along with the ACLU. Just as I don’t want the school system to teach my kids about sex, I don’t want them to teach my kids about religion either.

Besides, how would it sit with you if you lived in a Muslim district of America and the only religious class your kid’s school offered was studying the Koran? That would bother me. To be fair about religion, you almost have to teach them all. That assures two things: it would be very expensive and very incompetent.


22 posted on 05/14/2008 11:01:47 AM PDT by onguard
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To: Tennessee Nana
Comparative Religions ???

That would be another good idea for a course, but not necessarily. Had what I mentioned been available in high school. I would have taken all three.

I am an atheist, and I believe in the separation of church and state, and strongly oppose any form of religious indoctrination in public schools. But religion, comparatively and individually, is perfectly valid as an academic subject. Only the students lose when it is banished from schools.

Of the pitfalls though, I would be worried that the teacher chosen to teach about a religion is a hater of that religion. I wouldn't want Dawkins teaching the Bible, Robertson teaching the Koran or David Duke teaching the Tanakh. I'd also be afraid of having an anti-Catholic teaching the Bible.

23 posted on 05/14/2008 11:13:28 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Tennessee Nana

Associated Press Style (the standard for rules for spelling, punctuation, etc. for publications) requires that “Bible” be capitalized. The author (or editor) intentionally lower-cased “Bible,” likely in an effort to diminish it.


24 posted on 05/14/2008 11:55:21 AM PDT by Theo (Global warming "scientists." Pro-evolution "scientists." They're both wrong.)
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To: onguard

if you lived in a Muslim district of America and the only religious class your kid’s school offered was studying the Koran?
___________________________________________________

That is already hasppening in the public schools...


25 posted on 05/14/2008 12:20:03 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Theo
Associated Press Style (the standard for rules for spelling, punctuation, etc. for publications) requires that “Bible” be capitalized. The author (or editor) intentionally lower-cased “Bible,” likely in an effort to diminish it.

Good catch. In this context, "Bible" is the title of a book and should thus always be capitalized. I don't believe and I still capitalize "God" when referring to the Christian one when its usage is as a proper noun. I still don't capitalize "him" or "his" in referring to God though. It is grammatically incorrect, but an exception made by the believers.

26 posted on 05/14/2008 1:18:15 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Tennessee Nana
Have you ever noticed terrible things happen when the goyim read the Bible?

The Spanish Inquisition

The Salem Witch Trials

The Yearning for a pork chop ranch in Texas??? (they have nothing to do with Zion!)

Gee, what's next?

27 posted on 05/14/2008 1:28:14 PM PDT by Jeremiah Jr (What would John Lennon do?)
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To: Tennessee Nana

“In Hamilton county, schools have offered an elective bible class for the last 87 years.”

I’ve only seen a few comments here that make any sense. Teaching the bible, be it as history or as a comparative class,or as literature, isn’t indoctrinating children with “religion”.

I get the feeling that some are seriously afraid that the kids might actually LEARN morals and standards from reading the Bible!

Oh and for the few, there is no such a thing as “separation of church and state”, at least in the guise of keeping religion out of state business. It is and has always been the intent to keep the STATE out of religion.


28 posted on 05/14/2008 2:33:55 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
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To: Jeremiah Jr

This goyim loves the God that is in the midst of Israel...

And His Word...

And His land of Israel...

And His people, Israel..

If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning. If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy. Psalm 137:5, 6


29 posted on 05/14/2008 3:01:00 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Dr.Zoidberg

Leftist scum are quite capable of butchering the Bible.


30 posted on 05/14/2008 5:44:27 PM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: Vaquero

Many schools teach it as literature.


31 posted on 05/14/2008 6:12:38 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: FRForever

Hey, more than half of it is the Jewish covenant. Your money pays for a lot more crap than the Bible would and it IS elective, FR.


32 posted on 05/14/2008 6:14:14 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: FRForever

No, because Judaism and Christianity are the main religions in America.


33 posted on 05/14/2008 6:15:09 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: antiRepublicrat

Robertson is certainly not a Jew hater. He supports the Jews and Israel all the time. Cheez.


34 posted on 05/14/2008 6:16:41 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: swmobuffalo

That’s right, swmobuffalo. People have believed that lie long enough.


35 posted on 05/14/2008 6:17:54 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Vaquero
its not the governments business to educate religious doctrine. like sex education in the schools. It has no business there. It should (or should not if you feel that way) be taught at home.

Actually it's not the governments place to educate our children period. That was meant for the church and private enterprises to build and support. The system worked well for our nation till Washington politicians took it over in 1953 UNDER THE GOP's WATCH.

The Department of Education formerly the Department of Education, Health, and Welfare, was created under Ike's term as a Cabinet level position. The churches also did a fine job of running {oversite of} our hospitals as well as our welfare system till government took that over as well in one act. This IIRC is an elective course not a requirement. The founders were not against religious teachings in school but rather the prohibition of such. The Bible in our nations early years often doubled as the school primer in reading.

36 posted on 05/14/2008 6:35:02 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Three Blind Rats. Three Blind Rats, See How They Run. See How They Run. Hillbomacain)
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To: Tennessee Nana
I'm 50 years old from a rural Knoxville area county. Up through grade school we had the morning Devotion, The Lord's Prayer, and Pledge of Allegiance. Actually up till 7th grade we had a preacher who came to the school and read a Bible Story to the entire school. NOBODY protested it.

School was a safe place to be then. The worse thing to happen was getting hurt on the play ground. Even in my high school the principal a preacher himself actually knew all the students by first name and often enough spent his summers at his seniors weddings officiating them.

Then came MEGA school. Sense of community was gone as two schools were combined. A Principal and two assistants couldn't maintain order in that school. Today MEGA school has a high pregnancy rate. Guess where the girls get pregnant at the most there? Not at hope, not in their cars on a date, but at school.

As a nation we tossed GOD out of the classrooms of our schools and yet we expect his Divine watch and protection over our children in an institution we forbid the mention of Him or His Son's name much less a prayer? This will only mean that the void is filled by an opposing force as even nature itself arbores a vacuum. GOD's presence will not be where we do not welcome it.

Absence of GOD in the spiritual realm means the devil himself dwells. This was by no means the Founders and Framers intent to keep GOD out of school or public gatherings even state functions for that matter. They were open and vocal about their beliefs both public and private. The hand on the Bible for swearing in was established by George Washington himself. One POTUS in U.S. history refused to take his oath of office because it fell on the Sabbath Day.

37 posted on 05/14/2008 6:58:30 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Three Blind Rats. Three Blind Rats, See How They Run. See How They Run. Hillbomacain)
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To: cva66snipe

Wonderful post. Thank you!


38 posted on 05/14/2008 7:00:39 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: cva66snipe

Thanks cva

:)


39 posted on 05/14/2008 7:05:12 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana; Marysecretary

My pleasure. Almost two generations have come of age since my youth. My grandchildren will not know nor enjoy the United States I grew up in. Sadly enough many fail to realize what damage ones like Madalyn Murray actually did to our nation and future generations. Many persons living and voting today never saw what it was like before those court cases. GOD help you if your raising a child in todays school system even in the rural areas. They are a war zone in many ways and we as a nation are losing that battle and our children because of it. I hope the governor signs this one into law.


40 posted on 05/14/2008 7:15:18 PM PDT by cva66snipe (Three Blind Rats. Three Blind Rats, See How They Run. See How They Run. Hillbomacain)
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To: Marysecretary
Robertson is certainly not a Jew hater. He supports the Jews and Israel all the time. Cheez.

Duke is the anti-Semite.

41 posted on 05/14/2008 7:34:53 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: Tennessee Nana; All
Nashville, TN (WRCB-TV/Associated Press) A controversial bill requiring Tennessee's public schools to offer an elective bible course is making its way to Gov. Phil Bredesen.

The only thing controversial about this bill, in my opinion, is that, as a consequence of widespread ignorance of the Constitution and its history, the people were impotent to peacefully overthrow the USSC when it invented the bogus constitutional principal of separation of church and state to stop free religious speech in pubic schools.

From a thread concerning prayer in school...

Regardless that Justice Black wanted everybody to think that Jefferson's "wall of separation" somehow meant that the establishment clause was meant to be applied to the states, Jefferson had acknowledged that the Founders had written the 1st and 10th Amendments in part to reserve government power to address religious issues uniquely to the states. In fact, Jefferson had done so on at least three occasions. See for yourself.

"3. Resolved that it is true as a general principle and is also expressly declared by one of the amendments to the constitution that ‘the powers not delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively or to the people’: and that no power over the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or freedom of the press being delegated to the US. by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, all lawful powers respecting the same did of right remain, & were reserved, to the states or the people..." --Thomas Jefferson, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798. http://tinyurl.com/oozoo

"In matters of religion, I have considered that its free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of the general government. I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it; but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of State or Church authorities acknowledged by the several religious societies." --Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural Address, 1805. ME 3:378 http://tinyurl.com/jmpm3

"I consider the government of the United States as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the United States. Certainly, no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the General Government. It must then rest with the states, as far as it can be in any human authority." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Miller, 1808. http://tinyurl.com/nkdu7

1st Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

So by quoting Jefferson to help justify his special-interest interpretation of the establishment clause, Justice Black actually quoted probably the worst person that he could have quoted to help justify his dirty work.

Regarding Black's special-interest shenanigans, note that "former" Klansman Justice Black was not only a Roman Catholic-despising Baptist, but also consider that certain Baptists regard Matthew 22:21 as God's call for absolute c&s separation. So Black was possibly happy to twist the meaning of the establishment clause to stop Catholic religious exercises in public schools even if it meant stopping Protestant religious exercises from being practiced too. If this was the case, then Black wrongly put his personal beliefs ahead of his oath to defend the Constitution as evidenced by his misrepresentation of Jefferson's ideas concerning c&s separation.

So regardless what Justice Black wanted everybody to believe about the establishment clause, the states have the constitutional power (10th A.) to authorize public schools to lead non-mandatory (14th A.) classroom discussions on the pros and cons of evolution, creationism and ID, as examples, but also including praying in public schools, regardless that atheists, separatists, secular judges and the MSM from misleading the people to think that doing such things in public schools is unconstitutional.

As a side note about prayer in public schools, keep in mind that even if there is nothing unconstitutional about Christian prayer in public schools, Matthew 6:5-8 shows that Jesus taught his followers to be discreet about praying, not making a public spectacle out of it. So even if the honest interpretation of our 1st A. rights puts no restrictions on things like public school prayer (14th A. protections respected), Jesus essentially did.

Getting back to justices who are able put personal agendas ahead of their oaths to defend the Constitution because the people don't know their own Constitution, Lincoln put it this way.

"We the People are the rightful master of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." --Abraham Lincoln, Political debates between Lincoln and Douglas, 1858.
The bottom line is that, just like the pro-concealed gun laws now being passed, I'm glad to see that people are at least starting to stand up for their constitutional rights, their religion-related rights in this example, regardless that they've been duped by constitutional flunky judges into not exercising these rights for the past several decades.
42 posted on 05/14/2008 8:09:35 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: Marysecretary

> it IS elective, FR.

You’ve missed my point. If I don’t want my kids to take it, I still end up paying for it. No thanks.


43 posted on 05/15/2008 2:02:02 AM PDT by FRForever (http://www.constitutionparty.com)
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To: Marysecretary

> Judaism and Christianity are the main religions in America.

You’ll have to enlighten me — I don’t remember where the Pledge of Allegiance says “Freedom and Justice for the Majority.”

And another thing: Does this Bible they’re going to teach from include the books of the Maccabees? Psalm 151? The Prayer of Manasseh? These are parts of some Christian Bibles but not others.

Thanks but no thanks. Like sex ed, religious education should be controlled by the parents.


44 posted on 05/15/2008 2:10:10 AM PDT by FRForever (http://www.constitutionparty.com)
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To: FRForever

I am a property owner, but we home school. I still must contribute through my property taxes to the county’s schools.

Shall we begin a list of all the things with which we disagree and to which we are opposed that we still must pay for in the public schools through taxation?

A better bill for me would be one that states, if we don’t use the public schools and must pay for our own children’s education out of pocket, we will be exempted from the public schools portion of our tax bill. That would be better than a voucher system, as far as I am concerned.

I’m sick and tires of contributing to the LACK of REAL education I see represented in the bumbed-out students who get off the big yellow socialist education wagon that stops at our corner every afternnon at 3 pm.

Bible principles would help some of these students, for sure.


45 posted on 05/15/2008 2:19:20 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: antiRepublicrat

Yes, I know, but Robertson was also mentioned in that list.


46 posted on 05/15/2008 7:02:03 AM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: cva66snipe

You are so right. I find it increasingly sad to see what’s happening to our great nation. Take God out, and guess who comes in? The enemy of our souls and he is more than happy to take over the position. I hate liberal thinking and the socialist/communist takeover of our country.


47 posted on 05/15/2008 7:04:04 AM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: John Leland 1789

> A better bill for me would be one that states, if we don’t use the public schools and must pay for our own children’s education out of pocket, we will be exempted from the public schools portion of our tax bill.

Sounds like an excellent plan.


48 posted on 05/15/2008 7:17:26 AM PDT by FRForever (http://www.constitutionparty.com)
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To: Marysecretary
Yes, I know, but Robertson was also mentioned in that list.

As being against Muslims. I gave one example for each religion.

49 posted on 05/15/2008 7:25:11 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

OK, thanks for the clarification. Love, M


50 posted on 05/15/2008 7:27:16 AM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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