Posted on 05/27/2008 10:29:23 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
Blessed with a nest egg of nearly $1.5 million, a Woodland Hills parish donated almost all of it, leaving just $1,000 in its savings account. An Encino church offered a $100,000 interest-free loan. And a Boyle Heights parish decided it could spare $500 after ruling out the idea of raising money with tamale sales.
With gifts large and small, parishes across the sprawling Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles are answering an appeal from Cardinal Roger M. Mahony to help the archdiocese dig out of the financial hole resulting from its multimillion-dollar legal settlements with victims of clergy sexual abuse...
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Let's see, "We victimized you, now you pay the bill". I guess the vast wealth of the Catholic church is off limits
It sure looks that way.
Wonder what they're saving it for?
Devout chuch-going Catholics shouldn’t have to bail out expenses for pedophile predsators who should have been exposed to the polie by the Church hierarchy instead of palmed off on other parishes.
It’s interesting how those that did not report the crimes to the police have never paid a price for their complicity. They’ve made lawyers look like heroes because they handled it so badly.
Granted I just read the excerpt (which qualifies me to hold forth on the entire article) but I didn’t read anywhere where it was a mandatory confiscation. The cardinal asked, the parishes delivered. Where’s the beef?
The Vatican could erase this debt with a quick swipe of the pen. Why doesn't it?
Probably the answer is two-fold. If congregants and parishes are going to be led around by the nose in other matters, why not lead them to pay this tab as well?
Also, there may be something about everyone needing to feel and shoulder this "collective" guilt on some kind of creepy, "we're all guilty" level.
That way, the priests aren't really guilty if the members of the church are taking on the responsibility of paying for their despicable actions. It must take a lot for a Catholic to believe that "another Christ" is guilty of anything.
All men are sinners, but NOT all men commit these kinds of terrible crimes.
Watch the recent, award-winning documentary now on DVD, "Deliver Us From Evil." Everything becomes a lot clearer, sadly, after watching it.
Thanks for the ping!
My second reaction was: well, since first the church turned away from biblical command to put the disgusting pedophiles out of fellowship until such time, prayerfully they repented (they didn't). Secondly, also very much against biblical mandate, they just shuffled them elsewhere to protect the vile pedophiles and kept doing that until the word got out publicly. Thirdly, they did not use biblical or Christ centered ways to relief to the victims, but used secular and man's ways (lawsuits and mammon pay-offs, psycho-babble) rather than biblical counseling, etc. Then why are we surprised when they, again, appeal to man, even their own sheep to pay for the sins of their false shepherds in order to keep their earthly riches?
Back to the first reaction.
Ugh, how disgusting and rotten and very unGodly.
Also, the fact that you continue to forward that piece of Hollywood propaganda says that you're willing to partner with left-wingers just as long as they're anti-Catholic.
Why do you make that accusation? What is the foundation you are using? It would seem that you are saying that anyone who realizes that what the RCC did was bibically wrong is a left-winger. Is that what you are saying?
No, specifically, I mean the documentary was produced by Hollywood interests, which are typically left-wing
oops.. I realized my mistake a few minutes after I posted.
But since both of you mentioned it, I have decided to order the DVD myself Then, I can see for myself if it is really left-winged as you accuse or if it you just think it is because it exposes how ungodly and downright evil this whole affair was dealt with - and seems to be continuing. Then I don’t have to take your word, or Doc’s! ;)
((citation needed))
Seriously, what makes you think the Vatican has any more liquid cash to pay for these sorts of cases than any other government or organization? This is the reason the Church is arranged into dioceses: they are manageable but semi-independent subsections. It was one of the ideas we kept from the Romans.
The bulk of the "Wealth of the Vatican" isn't in liquid cash. It's in architecture, art, manuscripts, etc. that, if they could be priced at all, are properly shared with the entire world. There is no guarantee that private owners (if any could actually afford said art/architecture) would do this as well as the Church does.
In addition, the same logic you use here would dictate that the Federal Government should pay for the sexual abuse against children that has taken place in the public schools. They have the money lying around, right?
Any parish that contributes it’s parishoners’ monies to settling child abuse lawsuits, should fold it’s ledgers, shut it’s doors and blow itself to oblivion!
This is key. Just because a documentary is "award-winning" doesn't mean that it isn't somewhere between slanted and downright wrong.
But since both of you mentioned it, I have decided to order the DVD myself Then, I can see for myself if it is really left-winged as you accuse or if it you just think it is because it exposes how ungodly and downright evil this whole affair was dealt with
lupie, I hope you watch it with the same critical eye that you would with "Bowling for Columbine," "Fahrenheit 9/11," "An Inconvenient Truth," or any of those other wonderful "award-winning documentaries." To do otherwise is intellectually dishonest. Liberals are liberals, period. If you are convinced after looking critically, I can't complain.
and seems to be continuing.
This is completely untrue, at least in the US. Dioceses have implemented policies to deal with accusations, candidates are heavily screened (I know because I went through the process recently), and priests have been removed.
//Before you ask, I haven't seen any of the movies mentioned. I won't buy/rent them because I have no desire to pay them and reward their bad behaviour. Maybe I'll rent some from the library someday.
Yes, I WILL look at it critically. I look at most things that way. And when I was talking about the evil continuing, I was not speaking of the abuse continuing. I wouldn’t know about that. I mean the evil way in which the entire thing has been, and is being handled. That is, if it is true that the sheep are being asked to pay for the payoff to other sheep.
It sure looks that way. Wonder what they're saving it for?
To pay #666, of course.
Antichrists aren't cheap, ya know!
Don't tell this to too many people, though. It's meant to be classified.
Not according to Father Baker and his interpretation of the RCC...
"Simply stated, the Catholic priest is another Christ. Through his ordination he has been granted the amazing gift of being a channel of divine grace for the eternal salvation of those he come into contact with -— both in his official ministry and in his personal life..."
"The Catholic priest is another Christ...both in his official ministry and in his personal life."
Can we doubt the fear a child might experience being confronted with the sinful desires of a man who is considered to be "another Christ" by himself, by his church and by his own family?
LOL. Has the Vatican never heard of Ebay?
The Vatican should sell off some of its wealth to pay for the sins of their priestcraft rather than expect faithful congregations to foot the bill for the decades of debauchery Rome was only too happy to ignore.
AMEN, Lupie!
According to the liberty Christ won for you on the cross and the gift of the Holy Spirit of your renewed conscience.
Please let us all know what you think about the documentary after you've seen it.
The Pope’s Italian shoes cost more than most people make in a month. There was a thread last week about the Vatican’s drugstore, maybe some of that pharmacy money can go towards paying the bill.
It’s so nice to have these Prince of Darkness threads here on FR, Why, they themselves oughta be “award winning”! They make us Holy Rollers feel so much better about our own Joe Palookaish interpretations of the Holy Book (”every man a priest!”), the only book you ever need, remember?!
Don’t you get it? The only sexual abuse worth mentioning happens in Catholic parishes. It NEVER, repeat NEVER happens to Protestant denominations. Or in public schools. And they don’t shuffle their employees around to hide it, either.
/extreme dripping sarcasm
Thanks for another point of view.
Excellent. There are too many who don't (both with this and the other topics).
I mean the evil way in which the entire thing has been, and is being handled. That is, if it is true that the sheep are being asked to pay for the payoff to other sheep.
What Cdl. Mahoney has done is far more preferable than the approach other dioceses have taken. The parishes that are being asked to pay are giving willingly instead of the archdiocese choosing to close parishes, sell properties, cut employees, stop programs, and such that ends up hurting a great deal of innocent people in the diocese. The money has to come from somewhere. Do you have any other suggestions (aside from the Vatican "big check" that I argued against earlier in the thread)?
Of course! How dare I come up with such ridiculous ideas!
Yep.
Or maybe they could abolish the official office of the "Vatican Astronomer."
Apparently, when it's inconvenient as we were told last week, he doesn't really even speak for the Vatican. He's just some guy with an expensive telescope and a big bank account.
That’s some extrapolation, Dr., and a disingenuous one at that. The “both in his official ministry and his personal life” is referring to the earlier “channel of divine grace,” not to the earlier portion.
Since his election last year, the pope has been spotted wearing Serengeti-branded sunglasses and brown walking shoes donated by Geox. He owns a specially engraved white Apple iPod, and he recently stirred much publicity with a pair of stylish red loafers that may or may not be from Prada.
The raft of designer labels floating around the new pontiff is one of the odder consequences of last year's long-awaited papal transition. For the marketing world, the change at the helm of the Holy See is presenting an unprecedented opportunity, but also an ethical dilemma over how far to exploit religion for hyping a product
lol. We will know them by their fruit.
"Fruit of the Loom," that is.
And keep in mind, this $720 million is for the Los Angeles diocese alone!
So the "channel of divine grace" flows into a priest's professional AND private life.
What makes this priest "another Christ" if not this "divine channel of grace?"
Read the words. The logic of the RCC's priestcraft is not only unScriptural and self-contradictory, it actually facilitates scandals such as these sex abuse convictions.
No man is "another Christ." The more the RCC teaches that lie, the more the RCC shows itself to be left to its own darkness.
The Doc has spoken!!
An infallible proclamation has been handed down and further discussion is pointless.
We are indeed indebted, Doc!
And many of those links discuss members of the congregation or workers at the church or church officials. Unlike the recent settlement of this thread which confines itself to crimes committed by the priestcraft.
And some of those links are a real stretch...
Unidentified clergyman in Norway...
NORWAY!?!
$720,000,000 against the RCC in Los Angeles alone!
From the link in post 33, just from the page on Evangelicals.
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Lake Wales, FL. The pastor at the Church of the Nazarene has been charged with sexually assaulting a male 17-year-old youth leader three times in 2001. The Rev. Gene Francis, 52, of Lake Wales, was arrested Tuesday and charged with unlawful sexual activity with a minor. (Sarasota Herald-Tribune, June 4, 2003)
Lake Wales minister arrested in sexual assault case
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Tuscon, AZ. The Rev. David Valencia, 47, assistant pastor of a Pentecostal church is expected in court Wednesday on rape charges issued by Pennsylvania authorities. In Pennsylvania, Valencia was an assistant pastor at Christ Church at Grove Farm, an interdenominational church that uses Anglican liturgy. The pastor of Christ Church, the Rev. John Guest, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that Valencia was dismissed in late 2001 because he was found to have pornography on an office computer after he was warned about a similar incident months earlier. (Tucson Citizen, May 31, 2003)
Rev. David Valencia allegedly had sex with a 17-year-old girl he was counseling
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An associate pastor of a San Fernando Valley chapel was sentenced to 32 months in prison on Tuesday for failing to register as a sex offender. Ilger, a former second-grade teacher, was convicted in 1988 of molesting four students in his San Luis Obispo classroom. After being released from jail, Ilger and his family moved to Los Angeles, where he took a position with Hope Chapel of the Valley in Canoga Park. “We’ve lived and learned a painful lesson,” the Rev. Jeff Fischer of Hope Chapel said outside court. Fischer has said he and about 30 church elders knew that Ilger had molested young girls before he was hired.
Sentencing (Associated Press, April 3, 2003)
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Marty A. Hynes, 33, is charged with eight counts of criminal sexual contact of a minor, three counts of criminal sexual penetration of a minor and one count of attempted criminal sexual contact of a minor. Hynes was a youth pastor at the First Assembly of God church when the alleged incidents occurred, between July and December 2001. (Las Cruces Sun-News, March 24, 2003)
Trial of former youth pastor begins
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Dayton, OH. A Trotwood minister, whose lawyer said he has been a “sex addict” since age 10, sought treatment rather than face trial in a Brookville police-run Internet sting that presented a virtual 14-year-old boy in a chat room. But a Montgomery County judge denied his plea for treatment Tuesday. Turner’s attorney, Dwight Brannon, wrote “He had his first sexual experience with another male at the age of 19 while in college. Shortly after he began surfing the Web . . . his addiction slowly began to grow.” Turner had been pastor of Anchor Community Church, 38 S. Fairgreen Drive, for seven years when he was arrested last summer. (Dayton Daily News, 01.29.2003)
Minister arrested in police-run Internet sting
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Marty A. Hynes, 33, is charged with eight counts of criminal sexual contact of a minor, three counts of criminal sexual penetration of a minor and one count of attempted criminal sexual contact of a minor. Hynes was a youth pastor at the First Assembly of God church when the alleged incidents occurred, between July and December 2001. (Las Cruces Sun-News, March 24, 2003)
Trial of former youth pastor begins
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Dayton, OH. A Trotwood minister, whose lawyer said he has been a “sex addict” since age 10, sought treatment rather than face trial in a Brookville police-run Internet sting that presented a virtual 14-year-old boy in a chat room. But a Montgomery County judge denied his plea for treatment Tuesday. Turner’s attorney, Dwight Brannon, wrote “He had his first sexual experience with another male at the age of 19 while in college. Shortly after he began surfing the Web . . . his addiction slowly began to grow.” Turner had been pastor of Anchor Community Church, 38 S. Fairgreen Drive, for seven years when he was arrested last summer. (Dayton Daily News, 01.29.2003)
Minister arrested in police-run Internet sting
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Riviera Beach, FL. A prominent minister, his church and deacon have reached a $600,000 settlement with a mentally disabled man who accused the minister of rape. The Rev. Thomas Masters, pastor of the New Macedonia Church of Riviera Beach, and Church Mutual, insurer for the church, negotiated the settlement with the man, according to his attorneys and court papers filed Monday. The man, who has the mental capacity of a 7-year-old, attended New Macedonia and accused Masters of coercing him to smoke crack cocaine and then raping him twice on church property over Thanksgiving weekend in 1991. (The Palm Beach Post, January 14, 2003)
West Palm Beach minister, church pay $600,000
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Anaheim, CA. Anaheim pastor admitted Monday he fondled two teen-age girls 18 years ago while working as a part-time counselor at a Colorado church a decade before he was assigned to an Orange County church. “I was acting like an irresponsible teen-ager. There’s no excuse for what I did,” the Rev. Greg Tucker of Anaheim First Church of the Nazarene told The Orange County Register. The church settled lawsuits by two women, who said Tucker, then 22, molested them when they were 16. A Colorado jury sided with the women in a civil trial, ordering Tucker to pay the two $70,000. Tucker said he never told church leaders about the indiscretions before his ordination in Southern California seven years ago. In Colorado, sexual relations with a teen-ager were not considered criminal then, which led the women to sue for civil damages. The former youth pastor is now a senior pastor in a Nazarene Church in Anaheim, CA. The Nazarene General Superintendent’s remarks about the case were very telling, i.e. “This happened a long time ago. . .the man has ‘grown’ since then. . . isn’t the Christian faith all about forgiveness. . .”(North County Times, April 17, 2002)
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A Christian pastor in Indonesia was sentenced to four years imprisonment for sexually abusing seven refugee children under his care, officials said Tuesday. Saderah Sudiro, a Protestant clergyman with the Foundation For the Village Bible Society, was found guilty Monday of molesting refugee children ages 14 and 15 in his house in Solo in Central Java, said prosecutor Ika Ria Wati. “For more than a year he abused the minors who sought refuge in his foundation,” said Wati. (Associated Press, April 30, 2002)
pastor gets four years for molesting refugee children _____________
CHELSEA, VT. Pastor faces trial or stiffer sentence for child molestation. A judge on Tuesday denied a plea agreement for a former Newbury pastor accused of child molestation. The decision means Rev. Joseph A. Rinaldi may go to trial or receive a stiffer sentence on charges of molesting children while he was pastor of the Newbury Bible Church and principal of the Newbury Christian School between 1993 and 1998. ``The crimes you committed are heinous crimes,’’ said Vermont District Court Judge Amy Davenport. ``They are crimes that have left long lasting scars on their victims. And it is because of that, in the court’s view, the court cannot accept the plea agreement.’’ Rinaldi had pleaded guilty to five counts of lewd and lascivious conduct with a child in exchange for a prison sentence of two years. He admitted fondling three boys in his care. (The Associated Press, December 03, 2002)
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/beec6c67c
Newbury Pastor Pleads Innocent To Molestation
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South Kingstown, New Zealand. 53-year-old Bruce C. DiMaria,the pastor of the Church of the Nazarene in Wakefield who also served as a teaching assistant in the South Kingstown School District’s Farm School for learning-disabled students was arrested Friday by North Kingstown police and charged with three counts of second-degree sexual assault for alleged incidents involving a 17-year-old female student who has autism and cerebral palsy. (NKStandard Times, Nov. 17, 2002)
Youth Paster charged
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Denver, CO. Denver police arrested a 26-year-old youth minister with St. John’s Church of God in Christ after a 15-year-old member accused him of sexual assault. (November 15, 2002, Rocky Moutain News)
Youth Paster arrested
News Report
Tulsa, OK. Son Minh Rockstroh, 48, was arrested Saturday on three counts of rape by instrumentation and one count of lewd molestation of a child. He was jailed about 2 a.m. Saturday and is being held in lieu of $200,000 bail. The allegations have no apparent link to his work as a schoolteacher but to his leadership of a small religious group called Church Life, Tulsa police said. The victim and her mother met Rockstroh through Church Life, whose members meet in each others’ homes, Detective Chuck Haywood said. “There is not a pastor of the church, but everyone considered him to be the guy in charge,” Haywood said of Rockstroh. During an interview with police, Rockstroh admitted that he had molested the girl on three occasions, jail records show. (Tulsa World, 11/12/2002)
Church Leader Arrested
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TISHOMINGO, OK. Kentucky pastor accused of raping a 12-year-old Oklahoma girl has surrendered to Johnston County officials. The Rev. Chadwick L. Keathley, associate pastor of Ark of Mercy Church of God in Winchester, Ky., responded Tuesday to an arrest warrant issued Aug. 26. Prosecutors charged Keathley, 27, with lewd molestation, first-degree rape and rape by instrumentation. He was released after posting a $25,000 cash bond and an Oct. 22 preliminary hearing was scheduled. The alleged incident occurred during summer 2000 at a Church of God gathering at Camp Bond Youth Camp near Tishomingo. (The Winchester Sun, Sept. 2002)
Pastor surrenders to Oklahoma officials
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Concord, NH. Charles Gravenhorst, the self-described pastor who once preached his fringe Christian ministry on Concord Community TV, was arrested again yesterday, this time by federal agents for allegedly sending obscene material over the Internet and for using the Internet to induce teenage girls to engage in sex acts. Gravenhorst, 45, was charged earlier this year with sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl in her Windham, Maine, home. The police said that he had met the girl over the Internet. (August 13, 2002, Concord Monitor)
Pastor arrested again on sex charges
http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/crime/2002/new%5Fgravenhorst%5Farrest%5F2002.shtml
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I’ve barely scratched the surface, there are literally hundreds and hundreds more. Shall I go on? I haven’t even looked up public school incidents yet.
Mahoney had to sell off plenty of property. Read the article.
A few more:
Cape Coral, Florida. The FBI has issued an arrest warrant for a former minister and radio evangelist after seizing child pornography, weapons and other items from his home, records show. Troy Cecil Snowden, 59, was indicted last week by a federal grand jury on charges of possessing child pornography, wire fraud, transporting a child for illegal purposes and possession of a shotgun. (August 11, 2002), AP.
Evangelist on child abuse charges
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Baton Rouge, LA. A Baton Rouge minister is of jail on a $15,000 bond Wednesday following his arrest on molestation charges. Danny W. Johnson, Jr. was a youth pastor at an unknown church here in Baton Rouge where he molested a juvenile girl from 1997 to 1999, according to police. (July 9, 2002, WBRZ)
Minisiter arrested on molestation charges
WBRZ report
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Charlotte, NC. A worker at a Charlotte church after school program has pleaded guilty to four counts of taking indecent liberties with a minor. Investigators said Larry McCrae, 38, fondled three boys, 10 to 14 years old during the after school program at the Chapel of Christ the King Church on East 17th Street in Charlotte. (July 2, 2002, NBC6-TV)
http://www.nbc6.com/news/local/nbc6-070202-ag-mccrae.3f88315a.html
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Fort Waye, IN. A 65-year-old former church elder of Calvery Temple was arrested Friday and charged with molesting a teen-age boy he had taken to movies and ballgames in 2000, police said. (July 1, 2002, The Journal Gazette)
Ex-church elder charged with molesting
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/fortwayne/2002/06/30/news/3579693.htm
Had enough? Or shall I go find some more?
Thank God for reading skills and posted links. Father Baker’s ludicrous (although obviously Roman Catholic) understanding of its priestcraft is unScriptural.
I guess protestants go to jail because most of them are broke. Nothing worth suing for.
NEW PORT RICHEY, FL — The mother of a 5-year-old girl has filed a lawsuit against the Gospel Outreach Church of New Port Richey, alleging that her daughter was molested because church officials failed to screen the background of a church volunteer. Alfonso Morales, 54, pleaded guilty last month to molesting the girl on a church bus in May 2001. He also pleaded guilty to molesting a second 5-year-old girl in the church parking lot in November 2000. He was sentenced to 25 years in prison. Morales was previously convicted in New York of sexual battery on a child. He was released from prison in 1992 after serving five years. (June 25, 2002, St. Petersburg Times)
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Lake Wales, FL. William Benjamin Wells, 36, pastor of Christian Harvest Ministries, was arrested on June 6 and charged with two counts of molestation on a victim less than 12 years old, two counts of sexual assault on a victim under 18 years of age, and one count of sexual battery on a victim under 12 years old. (June 20, 2002; Lake Wales News)
Paster Wells arrested
News Report
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Kansas City, KS. Reginald G. Robinson, 24, a resident of Kansas City, was charged by the Jackson County Prosecutor on Monday, May 20, with one count of statutory rape, three counts of statutory sodomy and one count of child molestation.According to the police report, most of the incidents of molestation occurred in the basement of the Beth Judah Ministries Church of God In Christ. (The Call, June 14, 2002)
Church Youth Leader Charged In Molestation Of 13 Year Old
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Baker, LA. A Baker minister accused of molesting four children is being sought after failing to surrender to East Baton Rouge sheriff’s officials Thursday. An East Baton Rouge Parish grand jury indicted McFarland on Wednesday on four counts of sexual battery, two counts of oral sexual battery, four counts of molestation of a juvenile, four counts of aggravated crime against nature and two counts of second-degree kidnapping. The indictment accuses McFarland of performing sex acts with four children from 1990 through 1998. The children ranged in age from 8 to 16. Prosecutor Kim Brooks said McFarland initially met the children while working as a minister at Hightime Evangelistic Center in Baker. (June, 14, 2002, The Advocate)
Rev. McFarland arrested on multiple counts
Newspaper Report
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Go find more
That doesn't mean you understand, obviously. Let me get back to Fr. Baker. He wrote:
Through his ordination he has been granted the amazing gift of being a channel of divine grace
The saints, through their intercession, are also "channels of divine grace," according to Catholic belief. That doesn't make them all priests.
$720,000,000 in one city.
That's the excerpt the Catholic should be focusing on and asking "why?"
Those pesky Evangelicals and their scriptural lives....Would you like some interesting stories about other denominations? I could probably dig some up. Then we could see who the hypocrites are!
Okay. I'll stick to the USA. How many more would you like? There are literally hundreds and hundreds. :D
Wow, it’s a veritable anti-Catholic Hate-apalooza.
Pity about the research showing the problem is worse among Protestants.
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