Posted on 05/27/2008 8:26:20 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
Can Mormon women wear pants when visiting a temple? Can men wear cummerbunds during a marriage ceremony? Are vasectomies an appropriate birth control option? The answers to these (no, no, and not really) and similar questions about Mormon practice and leadership might not seem to be especially secret, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't pleased about secret church documents hitting the Internet.
In this case, the cause of the displeasure is the confidential Church Handbook of Instructions, published by Wikileaks on April 16. The church is currently trying to get the information pulled down using copyright infringement notices, but Wikileaks doesn't respond to such requests. The church has turned instead to targeting other sites that host or link the handbook.
Scribd, a sort of "YouTube for documents," has already taken down a copy of the material after receiving a copyright infringement notice from the Intellectual Property Division of the Church (who knew churches had such divisions?). The church has also gone after the Wikimedia Foundation, the group that oversees Wikipedia and Wikinews (it has no connection to Wikileaks). What's interesting about the takedown request is that the Wikimedia Foundation did not actually host or even cite the material in question; a Wikinews article published on April 19 simply mentioned the existence of the handbooks at Wikileaks and provided a link to it. In response, Wikimedia also received a copyright infringement notice from Intellectual Reserve, the church's IP division. The link was subsequently removed.
(Excerpt) Read more at arstechnica.com ...
“The Mormons clearly “get” the Internet in some sense (you can chat online with a missionary, for instance), but they appear determined to follow in the footsteps of groups like Bank Julius Baer that have managed to draw widespread attention to confidential documents without managing to have them removed from Wikileaks. Given that any such removal will be tough going, it seems strange to highlight the issue by going after a Wikinews post, for instance.”
It seems easier to get pee out of a pool than to get something “off the internet”.
The mormon church is simply drawing attention to its more bizarre beliefs.
Read the Mormon Handbook for yourself at WikiLeaks...
http://www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Mormon_Church_Handbook_of_Instructions_(1999)
We report, you decide.
Yeah, I already downloaded it and posted it to a bunch of usenet and web newsgroups. No getting that baby off the web.
Here is the pdf link...
http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/mormon-handbook-of-instructions-1999.pdf
We Mormons are used to these attacks but the poor Scientologists.
I bet you are. And the laughter, don't for get the laughter.
“We Mormons are used to these attacks but the poor Scientologists.”
I don’t think posting a handbook of your real practices,
from your church, is an attack. It is simply a public
showing of what you practice. Seems reasonable for people
to know what your religion teaches.
Both cults do have similarities.
Some of the female students I've seen at the University of Utah wear pants VERY well...
So secret that relevant sections are handed out to everyone that needs em...
I'm LDS but I gotta go with Wikileaks on this one, they aren't making money on them (are they?) so I don't feel it violates copyrights. Now if Wikileaks was charging to view them or selling them for their own profit then yea I got a problem.
As a former member of that, ummm, organization, I can assure you that scientology is quite accustomed to attacks (and vicious in its replies).
CTR, FReeper. Actually, I think this is kinda funny but then I’m a little punchy tonight. I don’t think there’s anything in the Handbook that would be harmful to anyone, just the opposite. The Church probably doesn’t want people making fun of us. That’s all.
Check this out. It is my favorite video of all time on YouTube and I crack up every time I watch it. They are so cute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCP_4xNfn04
I can kinda understand the prohibition of woman and pants in the temple, even the vasectomy as birth control but what is the deal with cummerbunds at weddings (besides they are stupid looking)?
Both cults do have similarities.
I have a friend who left scientology and ended up back in LDS.
As far as faith goes there isn’t really all that much in common. There are some cultural and ‘look and feel’ similarities.
Funny one I caught the other day at Costco was this guy wearing a t-shirt I had never seen before. Think only LDS would understand. "Stripling Warriors: Mamma's Boys"
Had to google it to find out where to get one.
Why is publishing this book an attack?
I Lol'd!!!
I have no desire to snoop in the secret/sacred rituals of the Mormons, any more than I would want to stick my head in a Catholic confessional.
Still, that line was funny. Thanks.
Please do not use potty language on the Religion Forum.
Aw, come on, that was as good as the saying that someone is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
It was funny. But I must be even-handed. I can’t say that’s ok because it is funny and that one is not ok because it isn’t funny.
The wikileak link was missing.
Praise my God for Sola Scriptura as that is one heck of a document. I scrolled through......wouldn’t want to read it!
It’s not there now. (1:00 am 5/29) Anybody got a link?
Can any of the Mormon Freepers tell me why all the emphasis on being “endowed?” I mean, doesn’t that leave out a lot of folks? LOL
On first reading, I missed the first "get." It works that way too, and it creates much better imagery. <}B^)
It reads like a case of “He’s not behind this door!”
What it does not contain: Spirit baptisms, any policies and procedures for or against sealing the dead except children and spouses, any secret rituals or procedures, etc.
But NOT to the Temple! Not allowed. Nor are they worn to regular Sunday Service which is called Sacrament Meeting.
ROTFL. There you go reinforcing stereotypes. (Yes, I am only kidding.)
Maybe someone will leak the financial reports from my Methodist church. I have yet to see them and I am on the Church Council. In the Presbyterian Church, they are posted in the bulletin.
>> I can kinda understand the prohibition of woman and pants in the temple, even the vasectomy as birth control but what is the deal with cummerbunds at weddings (besides they are stupid looking)? <<
Simplicity, right? Cummerbunds are just show-offy. The same passage also forbids wedding trains, boutineers (sp?), etc. It’s a little alien, but I respect that.
The old school Pentacostal churches around here do not allow the women to wear pants. They also have to keep their hair long. But they won’t stop you at the door if you get a haircut.
Lol. I missed the “get” also. I didn’t even look a second time. I’m getting too used to weird colloquialisms being spread over the internet.
Not there any more
so a multi billion dollar oempire is concerned that people will laugh
A Christian would welcome the scorn - its a blessing
Peer pressure. That’s how they keep you uniform.
I doubt if any of the old school Penatcostals would go against the congregation and cut their hair. That act would be too rebellious.
Everything we do, what we wear, what we drink is earthly and won’t save us one whit. But as Paul says, don’t let your freedom cause anyone to stumble (I’m paraphrasing, obviously)
Shhhhh....don’t tell Saundra, but they are already laughing.
Ping
Religious systems are based around our desire to bribe God with our goodness. We never bother to think about the insult to God that results.
Our behavior is a natural result of the work of the Holy Spirit. If you have to work at it, that’s a symptom of a bigger problem.
I taught Romans 10:1-3 this Sunday. Ironically, only two students showed up.
Rom 10:1-3 MKJV
(1) Brothers, truly my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is for it to be saved.
(2) For I bear record to them that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
(3) For they, being ignorant of God’s righteousness and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:1-3 MSG
(1) Believe me, friends, all I want for Israel is what’s best for Israel: salvation, nothing less. I want it with all my heart and pray to God for it all the time.
(2) I readily admit that the Jews are impressively energetic regarding God—but they are doing everything exactly backwards.
(3) They don’t seem to realize that this comprehensive setting-things-right that is salvation is God’s business, and a most flourishing business it is. Right across the street they set up their own salvation shops and noisily hawk their wares. After all these years of refusing to really deal with God on his terms, insisting instead on making their own deals, they have nothing to show for it.
Murder
As used here, murder refers to the deliberate and unjustified taking of human life. It requires excommunication. Abortion is not defined as murder for this purpose. If death was caused by carelessness or by defense of self or others, or if mitigating circumstances prevail (such as deficient mental capacity or wartime conditions), the taking of a human life might not be defined as murder. Bishops refer questions on specific cases to the stake president. He may direct questions to the Office of the First Presidency if necessary
(Emphasis added, is mine)
Good point.
It often comes back to “works” and people who think they must “earn” their reward.
It is all in God’s hands. God saves us and places us in our circumstances to use as He sees fit. It is not our works that are necessary, but His.
More cognitive dissonance. Since members are commanded to provide earthly bodies for the trillions of spirit babies waiting in the premortal life, and that leads to such large mormon families, you would think abortion would be the gravest of sins.
This was a handy factoid for the Romney campaign in Massachusetts though.
Religion Moderator,
I point you toward THE BIBLE, where it says... [and I quote
word for word]...
1 Samuel 25:34 (King James Version)
“For in very deed, as the LORD God of Israel liveth, which hath kept me back from hurting thee, except thou hadst hasted and come to meet me, surely there had not been left unto Nabal by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall.”
I substituted a more common word, used by every Mom and
dog owner, and pool owner in America - which no one
considers offensive, to my knowledge - but, if I have
offended you, I take full responsibility and apologize.
best,
ampu
Paul take a harder stance and says that “self righteousness” is a sin. We attempt to take control from God. We create a salvation that doesn’t need God.
Jesus tried to teach this to His Disciples. “Unless you let me wash your feet, you can have no part in me”. Our religious systems are designed around the principle that we wash our own feet.
That was a funny YouTube video.
Here’s one I like a lot about secret mormon magic underwear...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsXzHLiHTOU&feature=related
fascinating!
One of my favorites is the YouTube of the Yeshiva boys singing.
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