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(Cardinal) George Temporarily Removes Pfleger From St. Sabina
CBS2 Chicago ^ | 6/3/2008 | n/a

Posted on 06/03/2008 1:44:07 PM PDT by Pyro7480

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To: Enchante

Odds are the Father will find himself doing administrative paper work at the Diocesan offices right down the hallway from Cardinal George.


151 posted on 06/04/2008 1:51:48 AM PDT by defconw (Pray for Snow!)
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To: netmilsmom; joebuck; A.Hun
joebuck: I’m sure the Church can find a nice parish for him in Outer Mongolia.

A.Hun: Hopefully, they will reassign him to a needy parish in Zimbabwe.

netmilsmom: Not if he is removed to a remote parish somewhere in the boonies.

What in the world have the Catholics in Outer Mongolia, Zimbabwe, and out in the boonies done to merit this guy?

Answer: NOTHING!!!

As for me, I would hope that His Eminence would have the good Reverend Father take an extended retreat to contemplate his vocation. I would suggest the Carthusian Monastery in Vermont.

A typical Carthusian cell:

In that way, being able to devote himself to prayer and reflection without any distractions for an extended period (say, until this time next year) the good Reverend Father might be able to see if he is truly called to be a diocesan priest or if he is actually called to a different vocation.

But PLEASE don't suggest that he be sent to someplace else, ANYPLACE else. Why should he be given the chance to screw other people up?

152 posted on 06/04/2008 2:11:29 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Boagenes
Really? I didn’t realize the Catholic Church took this position with priests.

The theology is that the Sacrament of Orders imparts an "indelible mark" on the recipient. That is the reason that you never hear of one being defrocked. (The technical term is laicized, by the way -- even though the Church has removed their right to function as a priest, they are still technically and sacramentally priests). In fact, that is the reason why an ordinand (an ordained deacon, priest, or bishop), even if married at the time of his ordination, may never be married after ordination (that applies to both the Latin and Eastern rites -- to include the Orthodox Churches).

So, in theory, they could suspend him from ministry. They could laicize him (prohibit him permanently from exercising any ministry, wearing clerical clothing, and identifying himself as a priest), but he will always and forever be, at least technically, a priest.

153 posted on 06/04/2008 2:24:15 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: baa39
He could also be allowed to remain a priest, but banned from performing the sacraments (he could not say mass, baptize, etc).

Point of information: Any person above the age of reason can peform a baptism.

Even a person of different faith or even no faith. As long as they intend to do as the Church does. Also in extreme cases a priest that has been laicized can give last rites and hear a final confession. The penetitnt must be in grave danger of death and there must be no other priest to give recourse, but it can legally be done.

154 posted on 06/04/2008 3:22:00 AM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: markomalley

Apparently you’ve never been a priest taken to a new parish. I have Uncles that are priests, one is a Bishop. If this man is set to his own wills and basically fired, he starts the speaking tour and makes tons of money.

In a new, set parish, where the parishioners rule the roost (and don’t think they don’t) his life becomes one of bowing to everyone around him. Basically, smacked down and at that point all he can do is leave the priesthood so as to leave his vow of obedience.

He would not be sent to a monestary, he is a different kind of priest. The best thing is IMO, a good ethnic parish where the laity takes no crap.


155 posted on 06/04/2008 3:25:31 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: netmilsmom

Could you imagine if they sent him to some whitebread church in say, northern North Dakota? haha


156 posted on 06/04/2008 3:28:49 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (This election is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if McCain wins, were still retarded.)
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To: netmilsmom

I hear they’re looking for a priest to take over in Greenland.... ; )


157 posted on 06/04/2008 3:31:47 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: JZelle

I think he’ll quit the church and go into comedy. That guy was funny!


158 posted on 06/04/2008 3:33:06 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: ovrtaxt

>>Every last person of the 700+ I helped facilitate with left the mountain in a much better place emotionally, psychodynamically, relationally and in terms of self-confidence and self-respect.<<

I’m thinking more Lincoln, Nebraska


159 posted on 06/04/2008 3:39:26 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: netmilsmom

maybe even Ruby Ridge, Idaho? Is there a Catholic church there?


160 posted on 06/04/2008 3:52:10 AM PDT by ovrtaxt (This election is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if McCain wins, were still retarded.)
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To: Pyro7480

Let’s hope he gets a PERMANENT relocation out of the USA.


161 posted on 06/04/2008 4:12:27 AM PDT by newzjunkey (NObama in NOV. (SD Congrats: Carl DeMaio, Duncan D Hunter, Jan Goldsmith, Jerry Sanders.))
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To: ovrtaxt

Seriously, I want him under Bishop Bruskewitz!

He’d learn what a strong Bishop is!!!!!


162 posted on 06/04/2008 4:37:53 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: Antoninus
You are correct that not ever Bishop engaged in the coverup.

However, we still have many Cardinals and Bishops unwilling to follow directives from the Vatican regarding communion for abortion supporting politicians -- like Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry. Even the Pope's own representative.

Examples:

"At the installation Mass of the new Archbishop of Washington, Donald W. Wuerl, Thursday, Archbishop Pietro Sambi, the representative of Pope Benedict XVI, was seen giving Holy Communion to pro-abortion Senator and former Presidential candidate John Kerry."

My question is if these leaders show constant disobedience to simple directives, why do they still have a job?



"In the summer of 2003, Archbishop O’Malley of Boston said, “A Catholic politician who holds a public, pro-choice position should not be receiving Communion and should refrain from doing so.” O’Malley also said that “It is not our policy to deny Communion. It is up to the individual.”"

Bishops involved directly in the scandal.

* Archbishop Robert Sanchez of Santa Fe, New Mexico, resigned in March 1993 following accusations that he had abused five teenage girls (p. 176).

* Bishop J. Keith Symons of Palm Beach, Florida, resigned in 1998 after having admitted he had molested five altar boys decades earlier (p. 182).

* Bishop Patrick Ziemann of Santa Rosa, California, resigned in 1999 after he was sued for abusing an altar boy for over 20 years and a priest for two years (p. 101).

* Bishop Anthony O’Connell of Palm Beach, Florida, resigned in March 2002, after he confessed to having abused a boy (p. 195).

* Bishop J. Kendrick Williams of Lexington, Kentucky, resigned in June 2002, facing allegations he had abused minors and an 18-year-old man (p. 215).

* In August 2002, it came to light that late Bishop James Rausch of Phoenix, Arizona, had abused a minor (p. 218-219).

# Bishop Daniel Ryan of Springfield, Illinois, resigned in October 1999 as a consequence of revelations of two male prostitutes, of whom he was a client (pp. 183-184).

# Archbishop Rembert Weakland of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, resigned in May 2002 after indisputable public evidence was released to the media by his homosexual partner (pp. 102, 107-109).

Card. Roger Mahony who paid $660 million to more than 500 victims to settle their complaints out of court in order to prevent his conduct as Archbishop of Los Angeles from becoming public.

Thomas Daily, the Palm Beach Diocese's first bishop, acknowledged in depositions last year that he urged seven sexual abuse victims in Boston to keep quiet two decades ago, rather than subject the church to scandal.



Cardinal Bernard Law covered up for the sexual abuse of Fr. John Geoghan and Fr. Paul Shanley. http://www.vachss.com/help_text/archive/law_admits.html
163 posted on 06/04/2008 4:57:28 AM PDT by ktime
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To: baa39

Thanks for the clarification. As a recent convert, I sometimes miss the fine points.


164 posted on 06/04/2008 4:57:37 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: netmilsmom
Apparently you’ve never been a priest taken to a new parish.

No kidding. ;-)

He would not be sent to a monestary, he is a different kind of priest. The best thing is IMO, a good ethnic parish where the laity takes no crap.

I have to disagree. I know of diocesan priests who have been dispatched to monasteries for reflection (a "spiritual retreat"). You are right that he can't be assigned to a monastery permanently; however, a retreat is a different issue.

And yes, an ethnic parish that will take no crap would be a good thing...as an "in residence" priest or a parochial vicar, not as a pastor.

165 posted on 06/04/2008 5:45:05 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

>>And yes, an ethnic parish that will take no crap would be a good thing...as an “in residence” priest or a parochial vicar, not as a pastor. <<

I’d go with that!!!!


166 posted on 06/04/2008 6:13:54 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am Iron Mom. (but really made from Gold plated titanium))
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To: ktime
My question is if these leaders show constant disobedience to simple directives, why do they still have a job?

If you have to ask that, you don't understand the depth of the problem. Removing a bishop has always been a major problem for the Church from time immemorial. Imagine removing 20 bishops. Or 50 bishops. Or 100 bishops. All of whom will support each other. And the press will portray it as if the Vatican was persecuting these poor souls.

Many of these bishops (Mahoney, in particular but others like Clark and Hubbard as well) have strong ties to local media and politicans in both parties. They are effectively protected. For some of them, I'm convinced that their goal is to do as much damage to the Church as possible.

Someone at the Vatican has determined that the best solution to the problem is to wait these guys out and replace them with bishops who are better. I'm not in a position to say that this isn't the best strategy, frankly.
167 posted on 06/04/2008 7:01:17 AM PDT by Antoninus (John 6:54)
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To: Pyro7480
I recall Pfleger calling for the murder (you read that right) of a gun shop owner a year or two back. If that isn't enough for a Catholic priest to get himself disciplined, what is? Now, apparently, he's really crossed the line with his Clinton comments.

We'll take it anyway we can get it, but it's hard to escape the cynical view that the political storm around this is what forced the Cardinal's hand in the end, rather than a pastoral concern for souls.

168 posted on 06/04/2008 7:33:43 AM PDT by marshmallow (An infallible Bible is useless without an infallible interpreter)
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To: joebuck; netmilsmom

Send him to a new parish in Upper East Slobobia Heights.


169 posted on 06/04/2008 7:36:57 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: baa39
Sounds like this is something that the Church should do with Pfleger. This guy is obviously filled with racial hatred toward whites, and the vile, venomous filth coming out of his mouth in that "pulpit" shows nothing Christ like, or the love of Christ. He seems nearly demonically possessed, in that video - the hate and venom is dripping from his tongue.

The Church should retire this guy to Siberia.

170 posted on 06/04/2008 8:10:51 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: ktime

Where’s the list of Baptist preachers who sexually abused kids or covered it up? We got at least one here in Dallas.

Can we stop the anti-Catholic bigotry please? This is a thread about Phleger.


171 posted on 06/04/2008 8:19:06 AM PDT by Texas Federalist (Fred Thompson 08)
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To: Antoninus

Good post! It’s enjoyable to see well balanced and reasonable writing here.


172 posted on 06/04/2008 9:34:49 AM PDT by ktime
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To: Pyro7480

Pfleger should take a long sabbatical to Iceland or New Zealand or the Bermuda Triangle to think long and hard about his calling to the priesthood and if he is fit material.


173 posted on 06/04/2008 11:15:09 AM PDT by conservative blonde
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To: wardaddy

This is called the Ratzinger effect. The pope’s visit to the USA was a triumph, and he revealed himself to the public as the opposite of the Panzenkardinal , that the cardinals are doing what they declined to do: Listen to Josef Ratzinger, the anti-liberal.

Do note that the pope does not just snap his fingers and the clergy jumps. It has taken him years to make clear what he wants, what he will tolerate and what he will not. The liberals hated the fact of his election; they hoped that he would died, since he has a history of ill-health. But, God be praised. Benedict XVI is spryer than Ratzinger was ten years ago. He is a gentle, soft-spoken, retiring scholar, and he asked several times to leave Rome so he could write books. But he saw how his friend John Paul II was struggling and decided that he could not desert him. He was positively inspited by John Paul. I was amazed how fiery he was at John Paul’s funeral. The man we saw on TV was that man. He likes being pope, and I think that if you had asked him ten years ago if he wanted the job, he would have said no,no,no,never. Thank God for men who do not want power but yield to God’s call. Amen.


174 posted on 06/04/2008 12:24:02 PM PDT by RobbyS (Ecce homo)
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To: Antoninus

Until the French Revolution, the Catholic Church was a kind of federation of national churches. The French Church had been virtually a royal institution since 1516. The Hapsburg emperor had a kind of Veto over the choice of pope. That changed during the 19th century. The loss of the papal states have the efect of liberating the popes from the control of Catholic princes. The popes gained much more power over the local churches. One result of Vatican II was to shift power back to the national hierarchies. So we get the bishop’sconferance which is political, not relgious in character. Paul VI was helpless to stop the process. John Paul counter-attacked by taking his case to the people. Bennie XVI is now in a position to take on pols like Mahoney.
Too bad Mahoney is so young. I understand that the Cardinal is not in great health, and he has had to deal with the Bernardin types all during his tenure. But he has the advantage of being able to rely on B16’s prestige and the threat that if he goes, the pope will install someone who will really shake things up.


175 posted on 06/04/2008 12:41:37 PM PDT by RobbyS (Ecce homo)
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To: Texas Federalist
Where’s the list of Baptist preachers who sexually abused kids or covered it up? We got at least one here in Dallas.

http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

176 posted on 06/04/2008 1:02:38 PM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: vietvet67
We’re gonna need a bigger chicken coop.

Too good to just let your quip pass. Thank you.

177 posted on 06/04/2008 1:15:41 PM PDT by proud2beconservativeinNJ ("In God We Trust")
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To: verga

Yes, I know all that, and you’re right it’s good to clarify these details. As for baptism, it’s not enough for a person to “intend” to do it as the Church does, it must be performed correctly. For example, look at all the people who have had to get “re-baptized,” or bring back their children, because a trendy priest (ironic that a layperson probably would not take this liberty) said the wrong formula “I baptize thee in the name of the Creator, the Redeemer and the Sanctifier” instead of “Father, Son and Holy Ghost.” Not a valid sacrament.

A laicized priest is not to perform any sacraments, even baptism, except in the cases you mention, which makes sense, so a dying person is not deprived in an emergency. Then he would be allowed to do those sacraments because he is always a priest in the sense Holy Orders cannot be “erased”. That’s why the term is “laicized priest” and the common expression “defrocked” confuses folks.


178 posted on 06/04/2008 2:58:11 PM PDT by baa39
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To: verga

Thanks!


179 posted on 06/05/2008 7:37:07 AM PDT by Texas Federalist (Fred Thompson 08)
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To: Pyro7480

I have to admit that I laughed out loud when I heard Pflegers excuse of ‘i thought the live feed wasn’t working’. As if this screed would have been acceptable if it was only heard by the black people in the building.

And then this queen complains about critics assaulting his ‘free speech’??? Boy, that’s some chutzpah. Somebody condemns you for racism and you still try to work out being a victim? There ought to be an award for that. Maybe one given out by the NAACP.


180 posted on 06/06/2008 2:03:49 AM PDT by bpjam (Drill For Oil or Lose Your Job!! Vote Nov 3, 2008)
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To: pogo101
but why isn’t it Bell, Book And Candle time on this guy?

Aright, you can't just leave it like that, you know. I have a vivid imagination, and while some of the skits running through my mind are quite comical, I dare say they are probably incorrect. I assume you refer to some punishment or expulsion ritual, but please do explain...

181 posted on 06/06/2008 2:20:14 AM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

I’m referring to excommunication — more specifically one accompanied a formal, in-your-face, want-the-whole-world-to-know-it ritual. I’m a non-Catholic, so I have no idea how often this is done anymore, if ever.


182 posted on 06/06/2008 5:29:40 AM PDT by pogo101
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To: markomalley
Why should he be given the chance to screw other people up?

Your point is well taken!

183 posted on 06/06/2008 2:15:34 PM PDT by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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