Skip to comments.Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]
Posted on 06/17/2008 7:55:24 AM PDT by NYer
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Once Saved Always Saved?
We must persevere "to the end" (Mt. 10:22; 24:13) "in the kindness of God" (Rom. 11:22) in order to reign with Christ (2 Tim. 2:12).
Scripture mentions several cases of Christians who have fallen away through sin (e.g., 1 Tim. 5:8; Heb. 6:4-6; Jas. 5:19-20; 2 Pet. 2:20-21).
Saint Paul, who had one of the most dramatic and profound conversions in 2,000 years of Christianity, writes, "I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).
Saint Paul further advises those who are already Christians to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12).
Christians are called to cultivate the theological virtue of hope, which is the confident expectation of divine blessing and eternal life with God (Catechism, no. 2090).
Hope is not based on our own strength or ability to resist temptations, but on the mercy and goodness of God poured out upon us by the Holy Spirit (Catechism, no. 1817; cf. Rom. 5:5).
Here is the key clarification. "Assurance is of the essence of believing in Jesus for everlasting life. That is, as long as a person believes in Jesus for everlasting life, he knows he has everlasting life (John 5:24; 6:35, 47; 11:27; 1 John 5:9-13)."
In other words until a person believes that what he has received from the Lord Jesus is permanent and cannot be lost, whether he understands that as eternal life, salvation or living forever with Him in His kingdom, he is not yet born again. A person cannot believe in Christ alone for his eternal destiny and also believe that he can do something to keep it since he didn't earn it in the first place.
Let's say you are witnessing to someone and he indicates that he has come to faith in Christ as a result of what you said. To make sure he really got it, you ask him a diagnostic question: "What if you leave here and you fail to live your life for Christ; you don't join and attend a church; you don't read the bible; and instead you become an alcoholic and a womanizer and then next year you commit suicide? What would your eternal destiny be then?" If the person sad, "Oh well, then I'd go to hell," you would know that the person didn't understand. By his death on the cross the Lord Jesus took away the sins of the world (John 1:29; 1 John 2:2).
Sin is no longer an issue. Works is no longer the issue. Life and death is the issue. Once a person believes in Jesus for eternal life (John 3:16; 1Tim 1:16), they know they have eternal life.
They know falsely. It depends what one does with his belief (Matthew 25, Apoc. 22:12, Romans 2:6-9, 1 Cor. 3:9-17, James 2:17-26, 2 Peter 1:2-1).
Huh? Sin is very much an issue. Heb. 9:12 tells us that Christ's sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God's doing), salvation is not a certainty.
I understand that they have pride in their particular belief system, but they need to remember that Jesus looked upon pride as a sin as it produces a persecuting and contentious spirit, just like what we are seeing coming out of the Catholics lately. Geez..why can't we all take charge of our own individual souls (Catholics can hand theirs over to the Pope if they choose), just agree to disagree and let God sort it out in the end?
True believers hang in there. Period. No exceptions.
As an example, Do YOU intend to stop believing?
For this Christ left us with the Sacrament of Penance (John 20:22).
That is a rather nebulous statement; can you be more specific by citing an example of Catholic tradition?
Even true believers can stumble and fall, like Judas. As Paul reminds us in Romans 5:2, we rejoice in the "hope" (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?
1 John 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
There are many differences in the belief systems, some on the Catholic side are not considered Biblical by non-Catholics, myself included. However, lest I be accused of Catholic bashing, which is certainly not my intent, I agree with the following statement in the article...
Differences aside, Protestants and Catholics do share several core beliefs including the Trinity, the deity of Jesus, and the fact that he was sinless, that he died on the cross for mans sin and rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.In light of that, I just don't understand the recent vitriol coming from the Catholic side of the fence, it seems to be increasing.
I have taken charge of my own soul and whether or not I am saved isn't up to interpretation by the Catholic authorities or any other Church for that matter. I have a personal relationship between myself and Jesus Christ and no one, especially a mere mortal (of which the Pope is included), can tell me that won't get me to my heavenly reward.
Anyone up for a round of Kumbaya? ; )
...What a wonderful consolation to know that we can be assured of salvation by giving just fifteen minutes a day to praying the Rosary....
Are you referring to a specific verse? What document are you quoting from?
The is the first general epistle of St John.
Of course, -- but they do so not merely because they have an intellectual assent to the Gospel but because having believed in the Gospel, they also make a conscious free-will effort to obey it in their works, and seek absolution from the Church when they fall. We are not saved by faith alone, the Holy Scripture teaches.
That’s your idea of the process. The point is that they come out the other end having persevered.
If we had a continuum that at one end says 100% God and the other end says 0% God, then you have them on the continuum somewhere in the middle.
I’d have them closer to the God end. But that’s just us talking process. Some have it 100% God and 0% human.
The bottom line remains that they come out the other end on the good side.
The Scripture wouldn’t give us lesson after lesson of forgiveness of sin and perseverance if nothing were required of us but to say “Lord, Lord” once, so these 0% percenters haven’t read the Scripture very closely, if at all.
Just because a person believes in imputation does not mean they don’t also believe in obedience.
They are not mutually exclusive concepts.