Posted on 06/19/2008 12:45:51 PM PDT by rrstar96
LONDON (CNS) -- Pope Benedict XVI would like every Catholic parish in the world to celebrate a regular Tridentine-rite Mass, a Vatican cardinal has said.
Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos also told a June 14 press conference in London that the Vatican was writing to all seminaries to ask that candidates to the priesthood are trained to celebrate Mass according to the extraordinary form of the Latin rite, also known as the Tridentine Mass, restricted from the 1970s until July 2007 when Pope Benedict lifted some of those limits.
The cardinal, who was visiting London at the invitation of the Latin Mass Society, a British Catholic group committed to promoting Mass in the Tridentine rite of the 1962 Roman Missal, said it was "absolute ignorance" to think that the pope was trying to reverse the reforms of the Second Vatican Council by encouraging use of the rite.
"The Holy Father, who is a theologian and who was (involved) in the preparation for the council, is acting exactly in the way of the council, offering with freedom the different kinds of celebration," he said.
"The Holy Father is not returning to the past; he is taking a treasure from the past to offer it alongside the rich celebration of the new rite," the cardinal added.
When asked by a journalist if the pope wanted to see "many ordinary parishes" making provision for the Tridentine Mass, Cardinal Castrillon, a Colombian, said: "All the parishes. Not many, all the parishes, because this is a gift of God.
"He (Pope Benedict) offers these riches, and it is very important for new generations to know the past of the church," said Cardinal Castrillon, president of the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei," which works to help separated traditionalist Catholics return to the church.
"This kind of worship is so noble, so beautiful," he said. "The worship, the music, the architecture, the painting, makes a whole that is a treasure. The Holy Father is willing to offer to all the people this possibility, not only for the few groups who demand it but so that everybody knows this way of celebrating the Eucharist in the Catholic Church."
He also said his commission, which also is responsible for overseeing the application of "Summorum Pontificum," the 2007 papal decree authorizing the universal use of the Tridentine rite, was in the process of writing to seminaries not only to equip seminarians to celebrate Mass in Latin but to understand the theology, the philosophy and the language of such Masses.
The cardinal said parishes could use catechism classes to prepare Catholics to celebrate such Masses every Sunday so they could "appreciate the power of the silence, the power of the sacred way in front of God, the deep theology, to discover how and why the priest represents the person of Christ and to pray with the priest."
In "Summorum Pontificum," Pope Benedict indicated that Tridentine Masses should be made available in every parish where groups of the faithful desire it and where a priest has been trained to celebrate it. He also said the Mass from the Roman Missal in use since 1970 remains the ordinary form of the Mass, while the celebration of the Tridentine Mass is the extraordinary form.
The document did not require all parishes to automatically establish a Tridentine Mass schedule, but it said that where "a group of faithful attached to the previous liturgical tradition exists stably," the pastor should "willingly accede" to their request to make the Mass available.
Cardinal Castrillon told the press conference, however, that a stable group could mean just three or four people who were not necessarily drawn from the same parish.
Later in the day, Cardinal Castrillon celebrated the first pontifical high Mass in the Tridentine rite in London's Westminster Cathedral in 39 years. The event drew a congregation of more than 1,500 people, including young families. None of the English or Welsh bishops attended.
Faith of Our Fathers ping
Good. Probably impossible to fully implement, but the effort alone would be an excellent development.
How about just a nice NO without innovation?
No handholding, no laity doing orans, no made up or added words. Like historically correct?
This is about the sixth article I’ve seen on this..I would expect them to fight it tooth and nail here in Boston.
Despite the fact that you talk to people who haven’t been to a Mass in the Extraordinary form since it was the Ordinary form (40 years) and say how much they miss it.
I think if it was in each Parish, except in hokey pokey land it would quickly become popular in each given parish.
Three teeth?
That sounds great.
I think it would inform people on how to do the NO better.
I pray you’re right, but sadly, I think innovative masses remain that way.
They are huge Broadway productions with a part for everyone. (and I am a lector, btw) Very little concentration on Jesus in the Eucharist. People aren’t going to give up the ego boost of being the “star”. Whether it be the cantor “lifting up” the responses, the laity doing the “and also with you” toss or everyone taking the priestly position of “Hands Extended” during the Our Father, it’s become miles away fromt the TLM. Catholics today won’t recognize much in the TLM. And silence, whoda thunk it?
Just look at how many parishes has the tabernacle squirreled away someplace. Not Christ centered at all. People bow to an altar with a presider’s chair behind. Bad, really bad.
Better they start discouraging the Catholic wave, sprinkle in Latin and Greek and basically take a cue from EWTN. Their NO is what should be in EACH parish, even if the noon mass is innovation central.
I’ve never stopped to analyze it by that “lifting up” of the responses by the cantor has always given me a bit of a queasy feeling. And I’ve gotten to where I don’t even do the bit about crossing forehead, lips, and heart at the Gospel anymore — and ten years ago I thought that was the greatest thing going.
We’ve got the sign of the cross and genuflection. I don’t see why we need anything more.
I will refrain from comment on this.
Pope Benedict, I love you.
Anybody can do this! Anybody! We're enchanting!
(Not to mention Incensed...)
If you need anything in particular, do let me know.
How's the Latin Ordinary of the Mass working out? If you just sing the chant in the rhythm of speech, you'll be fine. Don't worry about the stresses and points in the Solesmes method at first (but I'll bet the Chant Kit says that right up front!)
(Not to mention Incensed...)
**************
LOL! Mrs. Don-o, enchanting you are. :)
Don't think that's an innovation. It's in the GIRM as well.
Not an innovation -- definitely was part of the TLM!
Yes! The “On my mind, on my lips and in my heart” gesture before the gospel is very traditional and is in the GIRM.
Anything that is not in the GIRM, Handholding, Orans for the laity, the “lift up your hearts” toss (I have no idea what to even call that) and the like, should not be done. Let’s work on the NO before we put a TLM into every parish. Every Vicariate, sure thing. A Historic NO, should be first and foremost in EVERY parish so people understand what we are all doing. Clean up the ordinary before pushing the extraordinary.
Last time I was in Cleveland, I went to a parish that replaced the Orans/handholding with a gesture that looked like someone was holding a gun on the entire congregation. Even the priest was in a “stick um up” position.
Until we clean up that stuff, the TLM needs to remain available but not pushed.
It's a lovely custom, I don't know how old. Its purpose:
May the words of the Gospel be in my mind, upon my lips and within my heart.
Miserere Domine, progress has been so-o-o-o slow. But I aim not to be slothful. I aim to stick with it. If you have a bead available on your Rosary, please pray for me.
How are you doing since the op, Mrs. Don-o? I do hope you are well.
And you know, if you're ever in Atlanta on a Sunday, let me know . . . you can come and sing with us.
(don't answer that question!)
We call the toss "Touchdown Jesus" . . . but hardly anybody in our parish even does the handholding thing. You can always tell the visitors . . . unless they're in the front row, they look around, see that nobody else is doing it, and simmer down.
There was even a little article in the weekly bulletin about how you're not supposed to hold hands during the Our Father. Monsignor has instituted a weekly "Why Do Catholics Do That?" column, where you can write in and ask questions and he'll explain. One of the very first questions he answered was the handholding thing.
On the day of his election as pope, Benedict XVI committed his papacy to implementing the true reforms of Vatican Council II. Expect more to follow :-)
Bumpity bump!
I like that idea!
THE TEN MOST COMMON LITURGICAL ABUSES And Why They're Wrong
Chaput isn’t going to like this.
“None of the English or Welsh bishops attended...”
Snippy bunch aren’t they now!!!??
They cannot make you hold hands .... Come to our church, NOBODY does that. There are great, orthodox parishes.
Hmmmm.... I may have to look into this. The child and I have recently joined the Gregorian Chant choir at our TLM parish, and are attempting to come up to speed on Chant. It is difficult, especially since I can't sight-read music, and the child is in elementary school (and as such is too young to know how), so we basicly just sing along as best we can.
Most of the other people in the choir are more experienced than us, but they put up with us (me and the child's preferred method of chant is to read along with the music as best we can, listen to what the others are singing, and then sing the same thing a half-note later!!). The choir only practices one hour to one hour and a half per week (just before and after Mass). That has not been enough for us to become proficient yet (a couple of months into this process).
If I was smart, I would bring some sort of tape recorder along to practice, record the practice, and then attempt to sing along with the recordings during the week - for extra practice. But that would take effort (and an ability to remember to bring the recoding device along) on my part.
I wonder if this "Chant Kit" might help us along?? It would be nice to be able to practice the ordinary and propers during the week, but if there is no one else around whose singing we can follow. Hence, there is no way that can happen.
Does this mean my child and I are "disenchanted"??
: )
REFRAIN
Drop kick me Jesus through the goal posts of life
End over end neither left nor to right
Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights
Drop kick me Jesus through the goal posts of life.
VERSES:
Make me, oh make me, Lord more than I am
Make me a piece in your master game plan
Free from the earthly tempestion below
I’ve got the will, Lord if you’ve got the toe.
Take all the brothers who’ve gone on before
And all of the sisters who’ve knocked on your door
All the departed dear loved ones of mine
Stick’em up front in the offensive line.
(Wow... I never realized it before, but that song sounds awfully.... CATHOLIC???)
GIRM?
From the GIRM:
134. At the ambo, the priest opens the book and, with hands joined, says, Dominus vobiscum (The Lord be with you), and the people respond, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you). Then he says, Lectio sancti Evangelii (A reading from the holy Gospel), making the sign of the cross with his thumb on the book and on his forehead, mouth, and breast, which everyone else does as well.
>>They cannot make you hold hands .... Come to our church, NOBODY does that. There are great, orthodox parishes.<<
And herein lies the problem. There is that unity thing and also the group pressure. The average Pete in the Pew looks to what everyone else is doing. They hold hands, he holds hands. They do the Orans, he does the Orans.
We need to clean up the NO and then move on.
My parish is very historically Catholic. We kneel for communion in our NO mass. But around us, it’s anything goes. One parish even Mimes the Stations on Good Friday!) More Catholics deserve the option to attend a mass like ours and pitifully, it doesn’t happen.
EWTN is the standard and not that hard to dupilcate.
Thanks! Good articles!
I found the best way to forestall this was to put my hands together at chest level, bow my head, and try to look very devout and concentrated. Then they usually didn't try to grab my hand. If they did, I would just smile and shake my head. Nobody ever confronted me about my refusal -- I guess I just look too mean or something.
That’s my dream mass. Add no heretical hymns to a nice NO without innovation and I’ll be happy.
I suppose these masses will be conducted in Latin and therefore not be easily understood be the people.
Since both my parents are musicians, I learned to read music about the same time I learned to read print.
Now, obviously this puts me at a disadvantage in advising you on the best way to learn to read music, but I taught my kids how.
What I would advise is going to a sheet music store that specializes in band and/or choral music for children. Get a little book geared for kids on reading music. The sales people will be able to recommend something. Then the two of you can learn together.
If you have a piano or a little electronic keyboard (the ones at Radio Shack are not expensive at all), that will help a lot in keeping you on pitch.
Another thing you can do is ask the choirmaster for a little extra tuition. Take him out to dinner afterwards!
The most important thing is to want to keep learning. If you are eager to learn and try hard, even the most experienced choir members will be glad to help. The choir members that drive the serious singers stark raving mad are the ones who see choir as a social occasion, and never make any effort to improve their technique (or learn to read music).
That is why an English/Latin Missal is used.
I'll add that - back when I was an Episcopalian - when I was a little kid we travelled a lot throughout the Caribbean. We were often there at Christmas and Easter (because that's when school vacations happened), and if we weren't on a British island then there usually wasn't an Anglican church. So we would attend the Catholic Mass.
We had a little English/Latin missal -- and it didn't matter whether we were in Mexico, or a French island, or a Dutch island, the Mass was always the same!
(To right wrist): "What's a joint like this doing in a nice girl like me?"p> Alleluia anyway!
BTW, listening to others sing and then singing along as best you can, is the way St. Augustine learned to sing at Liturgy. And a good many million others as well, I daresay.
My life motto: "Anything worth doing, is worth doing badly." Chesterton
And PS: I greatly admire that you're going with your young child. This is spiritual formation of the very highest order. Yay! And again I say, Yay!
I stand with my husband on the left (who does NOT hold my hand! Huff!) and (I snatch off my glasses quickly) with my glasses in my right hand. People don’t try to grab that.
We’re pretty decorous at the Kiss of Peace, too.
We don’t get raucous til the parking lot. :o)
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