Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

How Much Time Does the U.S. Have?
Catholic Exchange ^ | June 19th, 2008 | Charles S. LiMandri

Posted on 06/20/2008 5:34:05 AM PDT by samiam1972

A friend recently asked: “How long do we have left as a society?” In answer to that question I informed her about an interesting and comprehensive study that a renowned British anthropologist, Joseph Unwin, PhD., presented to the British Psychological Society in 1935. Unwin sought to prove that the traditional monogamous model for marriage was not essential to the maintenance of a healthy society. After studying 86 different cultures, across time and continents –and much to his surprise — he came to the inescapable conclusion that the traditional male-female monogamous model for marriage was indeed the best foundation for a healthy and productive society. Unwin found that societies that adopted this model typically took about three generations to reach their peak of productivity and progress. After that, frequently, a gradual development of complacency and licentiousness would take place and what he described as an ”outburst of homosexuality” would sometimes occur. When that happened, and the society started to move away from the traditional model of male-female monogamous marriage as its foundation, it would begin to unravel. It would then take another three generations of deterioration from that point for the society to collapse. It is my opinion that between the end of the American Civil War and the Reconstruction of the South, proceeding through the Industrial Revolution, and continuing up until about the end of World War II in 1945, the U.S. reached its zenith. Then came the U.S. Supreme Court’s Everson decision in 1947 which imposed an unconstitutional “Wall of Separation” between Church and State. This directly contradicted the vision of the founding fathers. Upon his farewell address to the nation, George Washington tried to impress upon his fellow countrymen that it was “Religion and Morality” that served as the foundation for our young nation.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicexchange.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; homosexuality; marriage; moralabsolutes
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-88 last
To: wagglebee

I have three sons. Yes, it’s true boys don’t talk about feelings, and they need to be very physical - horsing around, jumping, running, racing, etc.

But, while it’s important to learn how to fight, boys should be taught not to start a fight. I hope we’re all in agreement on that here. There’s a difference between roughhousing and fighting.

With sports, homeschool groups, etc., we’ve spent a lot of time with different families with sons. It always irked me to no end how many mothers would just sit and smile when their sons were taking the fighting too far. (By “too far,” I mean ganging up on one kid, or punching someone in the head unprovoked, or using moves that they may not know are dangerous like a headlock.) I began to wonder, Why don’t these mothers ever step in? I finally realized they were afraid to. When their kids were little and harmless, they didn’t discipline them. Now that they’re bigger, they can’t. So they’ll sit and say, “Boys will be boys.” But, the reality is, too many parents are chickens. ;-)


51 posted on 06/20/2008 12:10:48 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

I graduated in 1980 and we hadn’t heard that tripe either. We also prayed in school every morning.


52 posted on 06/20/2008 12:12:12 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

You’d be surprised. I went across the street this morning to invite my neighbor to come to dinner tomorrow, and we ended up spending ten minutes talking about laundry.


53 posted on 06/20/2008 12:39:57 PM PDT by Tax-chick (The dragons aren't as hungry as they were yesterday. Has anyone seen James?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: samiam1972
Freeman Dyson claims,

Since the modern nation-state was invented around the year 1500, a succession of countries have taken turns at being top nation, first Spain, then France, Britain, America. Each turn lasted about 150 years. Ours began in 1920, so it should end about 2070. The reason why each top nation’s turn comes to an end is that the top nation becomes over-extended, militarily, economically and politically. Greater and greater efforts are required to maintain the number one position. Finally the over-extension becomes so extreme that the structure collapses. Already we can see in the American posture today some clear symptoms of over-extension. Who will be the next top nation? China is the obvious candidate. After that it might be India or Brazil. We should be asking ourselves, not how to live in an America-dominated world, but how to prepare for a world that is not America-dominated. That may be the most important problem for the next generation of Americans to solve. How does a people that thinks of itself as number one yield gracefully to become number two?

54 posted on 06/20/2008 2:07:13 PM PDT by onedoug
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I believe it is our intellect which makes us most like God, not our maleness and femaleness. Nonetheless, He made us male and female to complement each other.

“Finally, since it is only in our maleness and femaleness that we are made in the image and likeness of God, the destruction of the concept of gender is perhaps Satan’s greatest accomplishment.”

This is a reason to start some serious fasting and praying:

“Moreover, since the sacramental marriage of a husband and wife is used to image the relationship of Christ and His Church, even the idea of same-sex ”marriage” is a sacrilege.”

It does not seem God has tolerated, for long, open society-wide endorsement of disordered living in the past.


55 posted on 06/20/2008 3:47:13 PM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: onedoug; samiam1972
Ours began in 1920, so it should end about 2070.

How did he arrive at 1920?

The reason why each top nation’s turn comes to an end is that the top nation becomes over-extended, militarily, economically and politically.

Again, looking back at the past, a major contributor to the extermination of these great societies was litigation. Essentially, they collapsed under the weight of so many laws. We, as a nation, have already arrived there.

56 posted on 06/20/2008 4:09:51 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Rutles4Ever; samiam1972; Savage Beast; Tax-chick; wagglebee
When will this happen? eh... it’s like boiling a frog. It’s been happening since the laxity of Western Civilization towards contraception...then abortion...then divorce...then co-habitation...then homosexual lifestyles...homosexual adoptions...and now homosexual marriages... next step is acceptance of polygamy...and then acceptance of pederasty...bestiality...whatever.

Massachussets, FWIU, is already considering legislation to reduce the penalty for bestiality. Discussion began shortly after they legalized homosexual marriage, speaking of which, here is what happened on that fateful day when Massachusettes legalized homosexual marriage.

October 23, 2004 / NEWTON, Mass. — L. George Chedid wants his eldest son to learn about math and science and all the rest of the academic subjects that children learn in elementary school. But he draws the line at his boy learning about same-sex “marriage” — especially at the impressionable age of 7.

Chedid’s son was in first grade at Burr Elementary School in Newton, Mass., last spring when the principal announced over the intercom that the state was officially recognizing same-sex “marriages.” The school then sent several of its homosexual teachers to various classrooms — from kindergarten through fifth grade — to explain what this meant and to herald the law as a wonderful civil-rights advancement, said Chedid, an engineering professor at Wentworth Institute of Technology in Boston.

“A kid at that age looks at anything the teacher says as absolute truth,” he said. “The teacher comes in and tells that 7-year-old, ‘It’s okay for Johnny to wear a skirt. It’s fine for Peter to marry Paul.’… It’s indoctrination of these kids that flies in the face of the principles and morals that I’d like to institute in my child.”

The resulting uproar in the town pitted parent against parent, with a generous use of epithets such as “bigots” and “homophobes,” Chedid said.

Chedid and his wife, both practicing Maronite Catholics, decided over the summer to put their eldest son in a nearby Catholic school. They also placed their next-youngest child, who was entering kindergarten, in Catholic school, where Chedid said they are “a lot safer from gay propaganda.”

Chedid said homosexual activists are making marriage a civil-rights matter and completely taking the religious aspect out of it.

In mid-May, forced by a Massachusetts high court, the Bay State became the first in the union to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Earlier this year, legislators passed an amendment that would ban same-sex “marriages” while legalizing civil unions. Before it can become part of the Massachusetts Constitution, however, the amendment has to pass another session of the Legislature before voters can decide the fate of the issue, which should occur in 2006.

In the meantime, same-sex “marriage” and homosexual lifestyles are coming into discussions in school settings and classrooms, parents and teachers said.

Just before the official date that same-sex couples could obtain marriage licenses, the superintendent of the Boston public school system sent a memo to his staff, urging respect for the new law and reiterating a “zero-tolerance” policy regarding any acts that could create an “intolerant” climate in the schools.

“It behooves us, whatever our position may be on this issue, to use this opportunity to help our students understand it as a vital manifestation of some of the principles that have shaped our system of government … as well as another step in our continuing efforts to create a more just society for all of our citizens,” wrote superintendent Thomas Payzant.

Opt-In, Not Opt-Out

As director of Project PARENT — Parents Advocating Responsible Education Not Turmoil — R.T. Neary has been leading the fight in Massachusetts to pass a bill that would give what he believes is justice to parents. The bill would require parents to give written consent before their child attended human sexuality classes. Current state law allows parents to “opt-out” their children: If a parent doesn’t contact school officials and ask that the child not participate, the child attends the classes. Neary’s group advocates giving parents the power to review course materials; if they object, the child is not required to take the class.

The bill stalled earlier this year, but Neary plans to bring it back to legislators in December so that it can possibly be up for a vote next year, he said.

“It’s the civil right of parents to be the prime determinants of the moral values of their youngsters,” said Neary, a public high-school teacher for more than 30 years. “And it’s been usurped by the schools.”

Neary’s statement is consistent with Catholic doctrine and principles, especially that of subsidiarity, a Catechism principle that, applied to families, requires that “larger communities should take care not to usurp the family’s prerogatives or interfere in its life.”

In his 1981 apostolic exhortation, Familiaris Consortio (on the family in the Modern World), Pope John Paul II talked about the importance of the parents’ role in educating their children about sexual matters.

“Sex education,” wrote the Holy Father, “which is a basic right and duty of parents, must always be carried out under their attentive guidance, whether at home or in educational centers chosen and controlled by them.”

One organization that doesn’t support the “opt-in” legislation — the Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts, which offers sex-education curriculum materials to schools — believes it’s important for sex to be discussed in the classroom.

“We believe that sexuality education is an important part of health education in general,” said Erin Rowland, the league’s spokeswoman, who added that the legalization of same-sex “marriages” in the state has not led Planned Parenthood to change its sex-education curriculum.

“And so a bill that would put a barrier and make it harder for schools to provide comprehensive sexuality education, from our point of view, is a negative. It doesn’t help public health. It doesn’t help get accurate information out there. It doesn’t help young people learn how to protect themselves (and) how to build self-esteem and have positive relationships.”

Planned Parenthood Federation of America made more than $90 million from abortion in 2002, according to STOPP International, a division of American Life League.

Schools in Massachusetts don’t need a classroom to present views on homosexual relationships. A substitute teacher in the Medfield school district, who wanted to remain anonymous for fear of reprisal, described an assembly last spring at Medfield High School, in which freshmen and sophomores were invited to listen to a female comedian.

The comedian, a lesbian who spoke for about a half-hour, talked about how she had to hide her homosexuality during her high-school years in Massachusetts, but was pleased that the climate had changed so much that now homosexual couples could marry — and she cited her upcoming marriage as an example, the teacher recalled.

He said her talk — which, in his estimation, was “advocacy” of her lifestyle — was “disappointing” to him as a “taxpayer, as a Catholic, as a Christian.”

Providing Alternatives

Catholic teachers who may have to deal with a curriculum that leads to discussions about homosexual topics have to walk a fine line in their jobs — while also living their faith, said Peter Cataldo, research director at the National Catholic Bioethics Center in Boston. If, for example, a Catholic teacher has to discuss a book that deals with homosexual “marriage,” he should also present materials in opposition or that offer critiques from the standpoint of natural-law ethics, he said. That would allow the teacher to avoid cooperating in providing “immoral ideas and values to the children and, at the same time, it should also avoid using specifically religious ideas in the classroom,” he said.

Meanwhile, the Massachusetts bishops are formulating an “across-the-board” response to issues that have come up surrounding the same-sex “marriage” law, said Daniel Avila, associate director for policy and research at the Massachusetts Catholic Conference.

“We think that the claim that same-sex ‘marriage’ is no different than traditional marriage and this is a constitutional right is an untruth,” Avila said. “And it will be an untruth that, when promulgated by official institutions like public schools, will do great harm to people who are seeking the truth and especially to families and parents concerned about the well-being of their children.

“They will be confronted with the claims that same-sex ‘marriage’ is a constitutional right and is a good thing,” he continued. “It will force them to come to grips with what their faith and their values mean. It will be a difficult process. Because kids will come home and say, ‘Gee, this is what everyone in school is saying, and how come we’re different?’ It will be a challenge and an opportunity, I think.”
What They’re Teaching Johnny

See Savage Beast's post #27 for an excellent description of how we arrived at this moment in time.
57 posted on 06/20/2008 4:39:06 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Homeschool, anyone?


58 posted on 06/20/2008 5:22:04 PM PDT by Tax-chick (The dragons aren't as hungry as they were yesterday. Has anyone seen James?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee

“They [boys] should be out with boys their own age getting dirty and having fun.”

You are so right. When I was a kid, boys played marbles, jack-knife, baseball, football, tag, hide and seek, wrestled, and climbed trees, the higher the better. They built forts, and rode their bikes; playeed cowboys and Indians, cops and robbers and ran around with BB guns. In Minnesota the fun thing to do was catch gophers.

Girls did mostly girl things. Jacks, hide-and seek [about the only thing that was intramural], dolls (ugh!). For some reason many girls prefer passive actrivities. Not me. I always wanted to play with my brother because he had more fun, but I never did when there were other boys around as he natuarlly played with them. Still, I liked to climb trees and run too. If my brother had no one else to play with I’d play basketball with him. He always beat me. He beat me at Monopoly too. I think it was in his genes. He became a banker!

Boys and girls are different for a reason. They grow up to be men/dads and women/moms. That’s the way Mother Nature made us. It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature!


59 posted on 06/20/2008 6:47:04 PM PDT by Gumdrop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: samiam1972; All
Isaiah 24

1 Behold the Lord shall lay waste the earth, and shall strip it, and shall afflict the face thereof, and scatter abroad the inhabitants thereof.

2 And it shall be as with the people, so with the priest: and as with the servant so with his master: as with the handmaid, so with her mistress: as with the buyer, so with the seller: as with the lender, so with the borrower: as with him that calleth for his money, so with him thatoweth.

3 With desolation shall the earth be laid waste, and it shall be utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

4 The earth mourned, and faded away, and is weakened: the world faded away, the height of the people of the earth is weakened.

5 And the earth is infected by the inhabitants thereof: because they have transgressed the laws, they have changed the ordinance, they have broken the everlasting covenant.

6 Therefore shall a curse devour the earth, and the inhabitants thereof shall sin: and therefore they that dwell therein shall be mad, and few men shall be left.

7 The vintage hath mourned, the vine hath languished away, all the merry have sighed.

8 The mirth of timbrels hath ceased, the noise of them that rejoice is ended, the melody of the harp is silent.

9 They shall not drink wine with a song: the drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.

10 The city of vanity is broken down, every house is shut up, no man cometh in.

11 There shall be a crying for wine in the streets: all mirth is forsaken: the joy of the earth is gone away.

12 Desolation is left in the city, and calamity shall oppress the gates. 13 For it shall be thus in the midst of the earth, in the midst of the people, as if a few olives, that remain, should be shaken out of the olive tree: or grapes, when the vintage is ended.

Sound at all familiar to our situation?

60 posted on 06/20/2008 7:04:07 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sandyeggo

I am dreading November, also. I don’t want Bad or Worse in the Oval Office and I’m helpless to do anything about it. Pray. A lot!


61 posted on 06/20/2008 9:23:55 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: onedoug

According to Mr. Dyson, I’ll probably be dead before America reaches the number 2 position. However, just recently my husband and I think we are being called to get out of town and on to some land. I feel like it is important for my kids to learn that milk doesn’t come from the grocery store and strawberries aren’t grown in plastic containers.


62 posted on 06/20/2008 9:37:13 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

I think this is an excellent reason to homeschool. Of course, being homeschoolers, I have a million and one reasons for choosing this route. My kids are progressing at their own pace, they are beautifully ignorant of anything sexual at the moment and are developing a deep love for God. I pray there are many more like them out there!


63 posted on 06/20/2008 9:40:56 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; Rutles4Ever; samiam1972; Savage Beast; wagglebee; Mrs. Don-o
Channel surfing last night, I stumbled upon a most disturbing program and what must be the penultimate example of in-vitro fertilization done for the wrong reasons. This is a true story.

Phase 1 - began with the typical couple who could not have children. They opted for IVF rather than adopt. Over the span of several years, eggs were harvested from the wife and combined with sperm from the husband but no fertilization took place.

Phase 2 - introduced three new donors - eggs harvested from another woman, sperm from another man and a surrogate to carry the fertilized ovum to term. One month before the birth of the child, the husband filed for a divorce stating that he wanted nothing to do with the child. At her birth, the father was listed as unknown and the mother as the woman who originally contracted for this child.

Phase 3 - the "mother" has filed papers seeking child support from her ex-husband. He has no biological or legal connection to the child and the courts agree that he has no financial obligation to the child. In fact, the courts have also determined that the "mother" is only a legal guardian and given her the right to adopt the child as a single parent.

Phase 4 - the surrogate who carried the child for 9 months, has returned to the picture, accusing the "mother" of lies and offering to adopt the child if the "mother" chooses not to. The "mother" refuses to adopt because that would negate her legal claim to child support. Essentially, this child has no legal parents!

The little girl is about 4 years old. Neither her egg nor sperm donors feel any connection to her. She is totally dependent upon her legal guardian for her emotional well being. At this young age, she is not cognizant of the processes that resulted in her birth. That will change when she reaches the teen years and begins to ask questions. I vividly recall a segment on GMA several years ago where a young teenaged girl set out to find her sperm donor "father". It is perfectly normal and natural for all of us to want to know from whom we inherited our nose, eyes, etc. More importantly, we also need to know if we inherited any medical conditions, some of which sit resident in our bodies, like ticking time bombs. GMA arranged for her and her mom to come on the program and they had a camera crew at the home of her sperm donor father. He came on the monitor, accompanied by his wife and 2 young boys. The young girl's face glowed with the excitement of finally meeting her "father" - she even called him "dad". The girl asked several questions and blushed when she discovered that she had inherited her big feet from her "dad". It was now the GMA host's turn to ask questions. "Do you know how many children you have fathered"?, she inquired. The man proudly elevated his shoulders as he announced: "From what I understand, 1,000 children, and I hope they don't all come looking for me." That brought a laugh from the GMA host. The sweet expression on that young girl's face immediately melted. Her shoulders fell as she cast her gaze down to the carpeted floor in the GMA studio, as she realized that she was no more special in her "dad's" eyes.

There was another scientific breakthrough several years back when scientists in England began harvesting unfertilized eggs from aborted fetuses. Mercifully, psychologists determined that while these would resolve one aspect of infertility for women who could not conceive, society was not yet ready to emotionally grapple with children whose mothers had never been born.

As an adoptee and adoptive parent, I personally know how emotionally vital it is for young adults to identify with their biological heritage. At the doctor's office, we are often asked if there is a history of such and such in our family, to which only 1/2 or no response may be given. When one steps out of God's plan for natural reproduction, we enter a world filled with unknowns.

Pope Paul VI's encyclical Humanae Vitae was truly prophetic.

Neither is it valid to argue, as a justification for sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive, that a lesser evil is to be preferred to a greater one, or that such intercourse would merge with procreative acts of past and future to form a single entity, and so be qualified by exactly the same moral goodness as these. Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (18)—in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general. Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.
HUMANAE VITAE

Thanks to the advances of modern science, somewhere in the US this morning, a young child is waking up to a new day - with no parents. And, just in case you may be wondering, the medical expenses to produce this child amounted to $250,000.

64 posted on 06/21/2008 4:18:15 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: NYer
The article you posted (#57) is interesting and disturbing.

Can you imagine the public reaction at the time of the Normandy Invasion to public school officials who openly advocated homosexuality, homosexual marriage, and homosexual sex education for grammar school children?

I was about to offer an anecdote that might encourage people like George Chedid...

To wit:

In the 3d grade I had a teacher whom I didn't like (unusual for me). She was from a distant state. She was a Republican and praised Abraham Lincoln. I went home and told my mother, who was a staunch Democrat and hated Lincoln. She said to me: "You are a DEMOCRAT," and she followed with a diatribe against Lincoln. I didn't tell my teacher about this, but I accepted my mother's dogma over my teachers and resented the attempts of my teacher to indoctrinate me.

I thought this might demonstrate the power of parental authority over that of schools and teachers.

However--upon reflection--I am now a Republican and an admirer of Lincoln...

Maybe this anecdote demonstrates an ability to think for oneself beyond indoctrination. I hope so. But I'm not sure.

My parents were also staunch Protestants. I am seriously considering sending my grandchildren to Catholic schools--because of the indoctrination of the Leftist madrassas mentioned in the article. I'm not convinced that non-parochial private schools are better than public schools in this respect.

I'm an Episcopalian, but it seems to me that the Catholic Church is emerging as a solid resistance to the decadence. On the other hand, the Catholic Church is under heavy fire from the decadence, especially in Europe.

Thank you for your words of encouragement, NY, concerning my rant (post #27). It's hard to be sure we're not full of baloney when we launch one. ~S

65 posted on 06/21/2008 5:23:45 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Vote Republican = Vote NO to the Radical Left!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee; NYer; sam I am
"Finally, since it is only in our maleness and femaleness that we are made in the image and likeness of God.. (My emphasis added)

This is one powerful and men and women impels usto unity which is life-giving and love-giving, the begetting of children giving us a tiny and yet awesome share in God's utimate procreative power.

However, it is not correct to say that maleness and femaleness, in their procreative aspect, are the only aspect of our God-likeness. For one thing, the Trinity is not sexed: the Godhead is not Father, Mother, and Child. For another thing, our intellect and free will, which give us the capacity to "know, love, and serve" freely, are another important aspect of our likeness to God.

Some unfortunate people are born with severely defective sex, for chromosomal and other reasons. And for that matter, some people are born with severely defective intellectual capacity. Does this utterly deprive them of their being images and likeness of God? I don't think so. There are other, more hidden and mysterious aspects, which God will some day show us.

Remember that Christ said it is His will that we should all be one, as He and the Father are One. In this great consummation, all are equal because all are One.

66 posted on 06/21/2008 5:32:46 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Beauty demands as much courage and decision as do truth and goodness." Hans Urs von Balthasar)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: sam I am; samiam1972

Oops! The previous post was supposed to go to samiam1972. Sorry!


67 posted on 06/21/2008 5:34:08 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Beauty demands as much courage and decision as do truth and goodness." Hans Urs von Balthasar)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: samiam1972

Not much. Worst case April 21, 2011, best case December 21, 2012.


68 posted on 06/21/2008 5:39:47 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Will this thread be jacked by a Mormon?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: OpusatFR
Boys need action damsels to rescue and quests. Girls want security and harmony. Girls worry about the future until they get a husband, boys do not worry about the future until they get a wife.
69 posted on 06/21/2008 5:42:43 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Will this thread be jacked by a Mormon?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: samiam1972
Interesting article.

I don't think we have much time left at all. As the article states, our society is breaking down.

When the germanic tribes over ran the Western Roman empire, many citizens were happy about it. Taxes were lower, order was better, and in general they felt no loyalty to the Roman state.

When Islam devoured the Eastern Empire, for many it was the same. The common people were released from most taxes, and the new masters were not as cruel as the old. Again, most felt no loyalty to the Empire.

Now look at the US today. Look out the Democrat candidate.

We are Rome, and are waiting for either the first Emperor or the last breaking. Either way, the Republic is dead.

70 posted on 06/21/2008 5:49:12 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
There is one thing I am very thankful for.

Here, the rising culture is from Latin South. In Europe, it is from the islamic south.

71 posted on 06/21/2008 5:51:08 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; NYer
Homeschooling is a great option, but the state will not let large numbers of kids opt out of the indoctrination centers. Even parochial schools teach versions of the global warming religion now.

Look at what happened in Germany to the home schoolers.

72 posted on 06/21/2008 5:57:54 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: NYer
There was another scientific breakthrough several years back when scientists in England began harvesting unfertilized eggs from aborted fetuses. Mercifully, psychologists determined that while these would resolve one aspect of infertility for women who could not conceive, society was not yet ready to emotionally grapple with children whose mothers had never been born.

We are having trouble having kids, but we have NEVER wanted to do IVF. Things like this just confirm my feelings about it.

It is sick that someone would think of doing such things.

73 posted on 06/21/2008 6:01:30 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: redgolum
That's an important consideration. I am opposed to illegal immigration and the open-border policy, but my biggest objection is that it will likely strengthen the Democrat Party, the Political Machine of the decadent Left.

However, in my experience, most illegal immigrants are fine people--merely insufficiently congnizant of the dangers that the Democrat Party presents.

If I could believe that all these illegal immigrants would vote the decadent, self-serving, anti-American Democrats out of office, I would personally place a welcome mat on the Mexican Border.

74 posted on 06/21/2008 6:04:39 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Vote Republican = Vote NO to the Radical Left!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: redgolum
It is sick that someone would think of doing such things.

Desperation and greed can lead people totally astray. The child knows love from the woman who planned her but no sense of belonging to a family.

Adoption is always the better solution. Have you considered it?

75 posted on 06/21/2008 6:38:24 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

Comment #76 Removed by Moderator

To: redgolum
Even parochial schools teach versions of the global warming religion now.

Yes, I see it in the Diocesan newspaper, and my kids tell me what their friends at church say. We get our "climate change" information from Human Events; they had a piece from Vaclav Klaus, that great man, in the last issue.

77 posted on 06/21/2008 8:18:33 AM PDT by Tax-chick (The dragons aren't as hungry as they were yesterday. Has anyone seen James?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: redgolum

Germans are disarmed, and have no tradition of the kind of citizen activism that has characterized the United States since its founding. I do not think that the government will go to the mat over public schools, IF sufficient of the citizenry leave them to make a real difference.

And if I’m wrong, we’ve bred our own private army, and they’re all quite militant.


78 posted on 06/21/2008 8:21:48 AM PDT by Tax-chick (The dragons aren't as hungry as they were yesterday. Has anyone seen James?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: NYer

We have, but aren’t quite ready to go that route yet. She has some plumbing problems, but her doc here and at Creighton think that they can be sorted out.

Of course my neighbor says we will adopt, and then get triplets!


79 posted on 06/21/2008 9:43:52 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: redgolum
We have, but aren’t quite ready to go that route yet. She has some plumbing problems, but her doc here and at Creighton think that they can be sorted out.

Excellent! I recall those years like a never ending ride on an emotional rollercoaster. Just hang on tight to each other and remember to smile :-)

You may want to consider a novena to St. Gerard. I'll keep you both in my prayers. God's will be done.

80 posted on 06/21/2008 1:40:14 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: Savage Beast
I thought this might demonstrate the power of parental authority over that of schools and teachers. However--upon reflection--I am now a Republican and an admirer of Lincoln...

There is some truth to that first statement followed immediately by another that demonstrates the wisdom that comes with age. My mother is only 16 years older than I but still appeals to her childhood memories of the Good Works programs and how the Democrats jump started the economy back then. She and my father both watch the msm news and tv morning shows and buy into whatever hogwash they are fed. My mother's ignorance is frightening; she still believes that Terri Schiave was on life support and that her husband did the right thing by pulling the plug. My father is more open minded but lacks friends and has isolated himself from discussions with others.

I used to be a news junkie and would flip back and forth each night from CNN to MSNBC to FOX. Since television is a one way form of communication, I often found myself shouting at the program host and going to bed bitter, angry and frustrated. 3 years ago, I gave up watching the news for Lent and peace entered my life. I have never gone back. I catch all the news at Drudge or right here on FR, where we can discuss issues and challenge the msm reporting.

I'm an Episcopalian, but it seems to me that the Catholic Church is emerging as a solid resistance to the decadence. On the other hand, the Catholic Church is under heavy fire from the decadence, especially in Europe.

The Catholic Church holds the deposit of faith entrusted to it by Jesus Christ through the Apostle Peter. There are some progressivist bishops who have tried unsuccessfully to move the Church is a different direction. They apparently failed to factor in the work of the Holy Spirit. Only last night, Geoge Weigel, a Catholic theologian and one of America's leading public intellectuals, appeared as a guest on EWTN's Friday night program The World Over Live. He spoke about Pope Paul VI's Encyclical HUMANAE VITAE . This Encyclical was intended to be the Catholic Church's response to the use of artificial birth control by catholics. Many religious within the church, anticipating the Vatican's approval, had paved the way by assuring their congregations to be patient. Some had already told penitent's to go ahead and use the pill. I still recall my parent's watching the news during dinner that night when the encyclical was released. The msm were surprised that the Catholic Church had decided to remain in the "middle ages". It shocked many of the catholic religious who did not expect this outcome. But once again, the Holy Spirit spoke through Christ's representative. In the Encyclical, Pope Paul VI writes:

Neither is it valid to argue, as a justification for sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive, that a lesser evil is to be preferred to a greater one, or that such intercourse would merge with procreative acts of past and future to form a single entity, and so be qualified by exactly the same moral goodness as these. Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (18)—in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general. Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.

IVF was unknown in the 60s yet this encyclical providentially anticipated the 'slippery slope' down which we would all travel with the approval of a simple birth control pill. (See my post #64)

As for the situation in Europe, the issues are relativism and secularism. With increased education, people tend to think they no longer need God in their lives. They have the intelligence to resolve all their problems. My parents are classic examples of this as well. They have formulated so many legal documents to ensure they "will not be a burden on society". Actually, I had looked forward to the day when I could give back to my parents some modicum of the love and dignity they had inbued in me. On the contrary, they feel they are the masters of their own destiny. All I can do for them now, is offer up prayers and remain as a sentry anticipating the day when they not only need but want me.

Thank you for your words of encouragement, NY, concerning my rant (post #27). It's hard to be sure we're not full of baloney when we launch one. ~S

You are absolutely correct and that is why I pointed the others to your post. If you scroll back towards the top, you will find a similar post from me.

For a period of 11 years, my life was reduced to living from one paycheck to the next. It was a very rocky road to traverse and along the way, in utter desperation, I opened the Bible one night in hopes of finding some redress. I just happened to open to the Book of Ecclesiastes.

Ecclesiastes
Chapter 1
1
1 The words of David's son, Qoheleth, king in Jerusalem:
2
2 Vanity of vanities, says Qoheleth, vanity of vanities! All things are vanity!
3
3 What profit has man from all the labor which he toils at under the sun?
4
One generation passes and another comes, but the world forever stays.
5
The sun rises and the sun goes down; then it presses on to the place where it rises.
6
Blowing now toward the south, then toward the north, the wind turns again and again, resuming its rounds.
7
All rivers go to the sea, yet never does the sea become full. To the place where they go, the rivers keep on going.
8
4 All speech is labored; there is nothing man can say. The eye is not satisfied with seeing nor is the ear filled with hearing.
9
What has been, that will be; what has been done, that will be done. Nothing is new under the sun.
10
Even the thing of which we say, "See, this is new!" has already existed in the ages that preceded us.
11
5 There is no remembrance of the men of old; nor of those to come will there be any remembrance among those who come after them.

Nothing is new under the sun! Here is the wisdom so lacking in today's society. I have heard it and I'm sure you have too that "we need to get with the times!" We're living in the 21st century. Each time I hear those words, I recall those of Qoheleth, written about three centuries before Christ.

God bless you!

81 posted on 06/21/2008 2:40:45 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o

I would truly value your comments on my post #64. Thank you!


82 posted on 06/21/2008 2:43:55 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Tired of Taxes; wagglebee
I have three sons. Yes, it’s true boys don’t talk about feelings, and they need to be very physical - horsing around, jumping, running, racing, etc.

But, while it’s important to learn how to fight, boys should be taught not to start a fight. I hope we’re all in agreement on that here. There’s a difference between roughhousing and fighting.

When I was growing up and attending Catholic school back in the late 50s, boys took their issues to the school yard where they fought it out. Today, boys are expected to remain quietly in their seats, like the good little girls, and refrain from any physical (i.e. - natural) reaction to their frustration. When they 'act up' in class, they are sent to the psychologist who usually assesses them as having ADHD and recommends the parents put their boys on ritalin.

You are right - it is good form to train our boys not to start fights but, consider the alternative! My daughter was finally diagnosed with dyslexia in 8th grade. She had been in private catholic school which lacks the resources to provide for these children. Over the course of several years, I met several parents on the internet whose children suffered from some form of learning disability. One mother related how her visually impaired son was knocked over and physically abused by an 'out of control' youth in their local high school. The youth, it turns out, was on ritalin, a psychotic drug, and had been for many years.

Be grateful for the legal ability to still homeschool your children in this country. Count your blessings!

83 posted on 06/21/2008 3:00:28 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: NYer
The whole callous business of procreating human beings via laboratory methods out of wedlock, ought to be shut down.

That's as much as I can comment for now. I am dealing with a rheumatoid arthritis fare-up in my hands. When confronted by hideous social deformities such as those you describe (the child desired as a "thing," reproduced as a "thing," and abandoned as a "thing") leaves me sitting here thinking --- shall we say, "prophetic" --- thoughts along the lines of Jeremiah.

84 posted on 06/21/2008 3:36:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (God bless the child who's got his own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: Mrs. Don-o
Thank you for taking the time to post your sage comments. That program left me in a state of shock and despair for this poor child. It was difficult to sleep last night.

I am sorry to hear about your rheumatoid arthritis. if it is any consolation to you at all, 2 weeks ago, while walking down one of the corridors in the hallowed halls of the state Capitol, I suddenly could not put any weight on my left foot. When the problem did not clear itself within a few hours, I drove to the outpatient clinic at the hospital where I had surgery last year. They x-rayed the ankle and assured me it was nothing more than a 'flare up' of arthritis. I did not know I had arthritis. My sympathies and prayers for you.

85 posted on 06/21/2008 4:17:10 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Offer it up!

Good to know that God's a genius at finding a use for everything that we bumblers offer with love, like my father who so many years ago was delighted--- "Everything has a use!"--- to scatter rabbit-poopies around the roses.

I don't know how God works out this whole Rube Goldberg prayers-works-joys-and-sufferings, everything-working-together-for-the-good, communion-of-saints stuff, but really, what else can you do? Offer it up.

86 posted on 06/21/2008 4:49:28 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (God bless the child who's got his own.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Be grateful for the legal ability to still homeschool your children in this country.

I am grateful. Whenever I hear stories like the one you shared, I am so glad we decided not to send them to school. We know so many kids (including some homeschoolers) labeled with ADHD and taking Ritalin (or having taken it at one point).

87 posted on 06/23/2008 8:55:48 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes (Dad, I will always think of you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: samiam1972

bookmark for later


88 posted on 06/24/2008 10:50:52 AM PDT by nanetteclaret ("I will sing praise to my God while I have my being." Psalm 104:33b)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-88 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson