Posted on 06/24/2008 6:46:32 AM PDT by NYer
A Roman Catholic Church decision to prohibit a Minneapolis gay pride prayer service has many in the gay community up in arms, leading activists to call the action a troubling and telling sign from the Twin Cities' new archbishop.
The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis recently told staff members at St. Joan of Arc Church they could not hold their annual gay pride prayer service planned for Wednesday — an event held for several years in conjunction with the annual Twin Cities Pride Celebration, parishioners said.
Instead, the archdiocese suggested a "peace" service with no mention of rights for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.
"That descriptor (LGBT) was not possible on church property. We suggested they shift it, change the nature of it a little bit, and they did," said archdiocese spokesman Dennis McGrath.
"The reason is quite simply because it was a LGBT pride prayer service, and that is really inimical to the teachings of the Catholic Church."
Officials with the Minneapolis-based Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities, a grass-roots coalition promoting acceptance of gays in the Catholic Church, see the action as an attack by Archbishop John Nienstedt, who took the helm of the archdiocese in May.
In an e-mail to supporters, committee co-founder David McCaffrey called the move "yet another volley of dehumanizing spiritual violence directed at LGBT persons and their families under Archbishop Nienstedt's reign of
McGrath said such assertions were untrue. He said the services had not been canceled in previous years because the archdiocese was not aware of them.
"It was not something that happened because there's a new regime," McGrath said. "If (previous Archbishop Harry Flynn) had known of it, the same thing would have happened."
This year, he said "several people" came to the archdiocese to inform church officials of the event at St. Joan of Arc.
Michael Bayly, executive director of the pastoral committee, was skeptical.
"I find it hard to believe that they didn't know about it. St. Joan of Arc had been very upfront in advertising it in their Web site and on their bulletin. That was always their style — they took pride in welcoming and affirming gay people," Bayly said.
St. John's regular pastor, the Rev. Jim DeBruycker, is on leave until July. His replacement, the Rev. Jim Cassidy, who was faced with the decision of altering the service, did not return a call for comment Monday.
Bayly said he saw signs of an ongoing "chilling effect." Usually, gay-friendly parishes advertise in the "pride guide" in advance of the Twin Cities Pride festival; this year, none did. The 2008 festival is this weekend.
"I think most of the parishes are in a terrible bind," Bayly said.
McGrath said Nienstedt is simply following Catholic doctrine, like previous archbishops.
He said "the church welcomes people with same-sex attractions among its worshippers."
"The distinction is people who fully adapt to the GLBT lifestyle are not permitted to receive the sacraments or be the subject of a prayer service that endorses that lifestyle," McGrath said.
Some in the St. Joan of Arc congregation are troubled.
"I'm sort of split down the middle between being really sad and really angry," said Gerry Sell, who has been a parishioner at the South Minneapolis church since 1965. Sell, married and the mother of six, chaired the 1989 Minnesota task force on lesbian and gay Minnesotans.
"I think that the move is going to resonate with some people, who will say, 'If this is the church, then I'm out.' Not another parish — a different church," said Sell. "Not me. Not at 75 years."
Nienstedt has said homosexuality is a disorder, and he is a leader in the campaign to persuade the Legislature to prohibit same-sex unions.
"Those who actively encourage or promote homosexual acts or such activity within a homosexual lifestyle formally cooperate in a grave evil and, if they do so knowingly and willingly, are guilty of mortal sin," he wrote in a November article in the archdiocese's paper, the Catholic Spirit.
Controversy over LGBT issues also had been an issue with Flynn, Nienstedt's predecessor.
Last year, the then-archbishop prohibited Mass at a symposium exploring the conflict between homosexuality and Catholicism, saying to allow it might mislead archdiocese members into believing the speakers' views had the church's sanction.
In October, authors Robert and Carol Curoe, a lesbian and her Catholic father, were scheduled to speak at the Church of St. Francis Cabrini in Minneapolis, but they were told they could not do so.
And in 2006, Flynn supported a proposed state constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. The year before, Flynn ruled that gay rights supporters could not receive Communion while wearing rainbow-colored sashes because the practice was seen as a protest of Catholic teaching.
One could be justified saying “It’s about time,” but it is more telling to ask why this was ever allowed in the first place.
If only!!
Ditto for all the other gay activists in the Church. If they'd just get the message that the Church won't change its teaching and either repent or failing that, move on, we'd all be better off.
Shot the parish down. Deestroy the building. Sell the land.
Okay...let me try that again:
Shut the parish down. Destroy the building. Sell the land.
“called the move “yet another volley of dehumanizing spiritual violence directed at LGBT persons and their families under Archbishop Nienstedt’s reign “
New term in the gay agenda: “spiritual violence”. I guess the churches can look forward to being accused of violence now whenever they speak up against this immoral practice. When a group can define the language, the battle is largely won.
So let it be said, so let it be done...
All of us, especially churches, had better assert the right to believe in and follow Bibical precepts before that right is taken away = as it already has been in the UK and Canada.
If the obamama gets in - Free Speech and Christianity will be silenced...
Dodson"Dobson slammed Obama for his cherry-picking criticism of biblical texts stating, “I think he's deliberately distorting the traditional understanding of the Bible to fit his own worldview, his own confused theology…He is dragging biblical understanding through the gutter”
Obama: "Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; ,,,"
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/dobson-to-attac.html
You probably know that is precisely what the Orthodox Church did to a chapel in Russia after a renegade clergyman officiated at a same-sex “marriage”! There is precedent.
It's natural that they will scream and squeal when they are finally (if belatedly) called to account.
Like it or not, the church has rules. If you don't like the rules, leave the church. The Metropolitan Community Church or the Episcopalians would I'm sure be happy to welcome the malcontents at St. Joan (she is no doubt appalled at the misuse of her name -- I'm sure all the homosexuals tell themselves and anybody who'll listen that because she wore men's attire she was really a lesbian!)
I don’t understand why the queers, socialists and other ‘dissenters’ don’t just start up their own queer, socialist, female priestess church and leave Catholicism to the Catholics?
It’s not like it’s some new and brilliant idea. Didn’t that Martin Luther dude do it in 1400 when he had a deal-breaker kinda conflict with the Church? And he did okay.
But these misfits and quasi-faithful types want to change the Church to fit THEIR beliefs instead of believing what it is that the Church stands for (and pretty much HAS stood for since before they were born).
There aren’t enough of them to actually start a nationwide movement but they ought to be allowed to and should be encouraged to either find a faith which allows for the various perversions, ‘social justice’ and hatred for other religions who disagree with them or simply start up a new religion on their own. Lots of people have done it in America. America is the land of opportunity. Many worldwide religions have sprung up from America (and America has bastardized many worldwide religions - look at the Angelicans).
But I get sick of all this whining about what the Church does and doesn’t accept about them. Move On Already! And the Priests should stop trying to keep them in the flock at the risk of infecting the entire parish. Just tell them that if you don’t like the rules then you aren’t a Catholic anyways so you should start showing up somewhere else on Sunday (or whatever day wiccans show up).
(btw, I’m not Catholic. Just respectful of it)
You wrote:
“You probably know that is precisely what the Orthodox Church did to a chapel in Russia after a renegade clergyman officiated at a same-sex “marriage”! There is precedent.”
Oh, yeah, that’s right! St. Joan’s has been a constant problem for decades. It needs to be shut down at the very least.
I’m ready to come back on a regular basis myself - Mass every Sunday if I can have it in Latin. I’d be more than willing to spend $$ on gas for it in my area. This Pope may very well bring everyone back that left when the Mass got too modern.
And from what I’ve gathered in other places, the younger Catholics are enthusiastic about the return to traditional Mass.
“One could be justified saying “It’s about time,” but it is more telling to ask why this was ever allowed in the first place.”
He was trying to get the gays to come to church?
Okay...let me try that again:
Shut the parish down. Destroy the building. Sell the land.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No need to go to that extreme. Just get a Father in there that is willing to give the place a good overhaul!
Catholic schools in the Diocese of Rochester had the sixth-highest loss of students in the nation over the past decade.
Enrollment in Catholic schools in the 12-county diocese dropped by 39 percent — from 17,710 to 10,739 — from the 1997-98 school year to 2007-08, according to a Gannett News Service analysis of figures compiled by National Catholic Educational Association.
During the same period, the number of Catholic schools in this region dropped from 63 to 48. As with the decline in enrollment, the figures include Catholic schools that are not operated by the diocese, but the drop was especially steep for diocesan schools.
Catholic Schools are essential in passing on the Faith from one generation to the next. Where does the Diocese spend $11 million while our schools are closing??? On the unnecessary renovation of Sacred Heart Cathedral!!!
We had a gay Mass in Rochester too, back in 1998. Here's a thread right here on Free Republic about the strange and disturbing going's on in the Diocese of Rochester, NY
Rainbow Sashers and "Bizarre" Baptism in Rochester (here's the rest of that story)
It's almost as if these things are being done on purpose, in and effort to destroy our faith. Please, pray for us.
“I don’t understand why the queers, socialists and other ‘dissenters’ don’t just start up their own queer, socialist, female priestess church and leave Catholicism to the Catholics?”
Satan knows who to attack. He’s relentless, always has been. He knows he’s lost and rages all the more for that.
You wrote:
“No need to go to that extreme. Just get a Father in there that is willing to give the place a good overhaul!”
Nope. Won’t work. 1) No priest could make that parish orthodox because the parishoners would fight him every step of the way. 2) that would be the waste of a good priest because he would either be murdered or die of stress. 3) we don’t send Catholic priests to tend NON-CATHOLIC flocks, and these people aren’t really Catholic. 4) the abominations need to be cleaned out of that place and destroying the building is the only legal way to do it. 5) inquisition trials and auto-de-fe are not legal remedies in this country (sadly).
Nope. The parish needs to be shut down, the parishoners broken into small groups and re-assigned to orthodox parishes, and the building razed to the ground.
The sad collapse of an apostate church
We've had so many negative thins happen over the years, it boggles the mind!
**The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis recently told staff members at St. Joan of Arc Church they could not hold their annual gay pride prayer service planned for Wednesday — an event held for several years in conjunction with the annual Twin Cities Pride Celebration, parishioners said.**
Things are a-changin’
We welcome you back.
**Archbishop Nienstedt is doing what all Bishops should be doing, upholding church teachings.**
It will happen. Pope Benedict is replacing many bishops with orthodox bishops as they retire.
Wait until they elevate it to "spiritual terrorism".
If these homosexuals weren’t just doing this for show, they could have their own prayer service. They don’t have to meet in a church and have priest there. But of course, meeting quietly in someone’s home wouldn’t advance their agenda.
Right. That is the direction it’s going. Violence and terrorism are losing their meaning already.
w00t!
“It’s almost as if these things are being done on purpose, in an effort to destroy our faith.”
Almost?
See, that sounds like a perfect new venue for those disaffected types. The Church of Satan!
Interesting he said this:
“Those who actively encourage or promote homosexual acts or such activity within a homosexual lifestyle formally cooperate in a grave evil and, if they do so knowingly and willingly, are guilty of mortal sin,” he wrote in a November article in the archdiocese’s paper, the Catholic Spirit.
Does that mean that there is no Dan Schutte sung in Twin Cities?
“...has many in the gay community up in arms, leading activists to call the action a troubling and telling sign from the Twin Cities’ new archbishop.”
Lord bless your servant who fights so zealously to protect your Word and your Church. Give him the wisdom, courage, faith and hope to battle the demons who will assail him for his love of You. Protect him against all malice. Shield him against all enemies. Cleanse him of all sin, so that his work may continue to glorify You forever.
PS. St. Joan of Arc parish, 815 is calling you.
There are two different levels though that we needed to group them into (from an operational standpoint): the people who wanted to be part of the Church but were radicals and wanted their radical views included, and, the people were trying to force the Church into doing things they knew were poison pills and would drive out real Catholics.
The latter group was the crowd that I got hired to deal with. And they were almost unfailingly atheists or agnostics with personal perversions or outright crimes in their closets and they attacked anything and anyone who either stood a chance of exposing their crimes or disapproving of their aberrant behavior. And most of them hadn't been in a pew in years before they started suddenly demanding that ‘their’ Church conform to their agenda. Oh, and they almost always were unemployed or underemployed types whose lives were a total mess. I have to admit that it was fun to go after those hippie freaks. And it probably wouldn't surprise you to find that parishes were I got the least backup from the local priest happened to be those where the priest ended up disappearing in the housecleaning by JPII. The whole 'those without sin throwing stones' thing pretty much separated out those who were truly honest and those who weren't. The priests who refused to throw down against the interlopers were the ones with the most sins. And while I never ran into Fleger in Chicago, I would bet that he has plenty in his closet.
I am not a Roman Catholic, but I would say this is an encouraging and telling sign.
I think it is all about ego, they think that if they want it or they believe it then it must be Godly.
Everyone at some time justifies their sin but if they are spiritually mature they eventually own up to it and ask for forgiveness and try not to sin again.
These people know they are not going to try to stop doing what they are doing so they NEED to try to prove that their behavior is somehow Godly. And I believe they really know that they are wrong.
Has any of these folks ever considered the Catholic teaching regarding “Pride”? It seems the promotion of Pride, which is correctly understood as vice is inmical to the Catholic Faith.
Pride is the root of all vice/sin and the strongest influence propelling us to sin. Gregory the Great charaterizes it as the sovereign of vices: “Pride, the sovereign of vices, when it has captured and vanquished the heart, forthwith delivers it into the hands of its lieutenants, the seven capital vices, that they may despoil it and produce vices of all kinds.” Pride is rebellion — the rejection of God’s authority and plan, and the refusal to submit to God and accept his truth. In this sense pride is the root of all sin.
As a particular vice pride is an inordinate desire or love of one’s own excellence. Through pride a person either thinks of himself or herself better than he is, or he thinks he can do things beyond his capability. Pride springs from an exaggerated self-centeredness. In pride a person makes self absolute and central, isolating self from God and others, or using others for the achievement of selfish purposes. Pride leads a person to sin in the pursuit of his own good. Excessive pride may move a person to steal in order to keep up his appearance, or to lie or cheat to better his own reputation. Pride can lead to all sorts of vices, notably presumption, ambition, vainglory, boasting, hypocrisy, strife, and disobedience. The proud person rebels against God and resists God’s efforts to lead him back to virtue.
Humility, which is a person’s recognition of his dependence on God and of his absolute need for submitting himself to God, is the only remedy for pride. Humility is true self-knowledge — regarding oneself as God sees him. It is truth in self-understanding and truth in action. The humble person does not trust in his own strength, but in the power and love of God. True humility is a servant-like quality which enables one to place his life at the service of God and others. The modern notion of humility as feeling inadequate, inferior, incompetent, bad about yourself, or unneeded is unscriptural. True humility involves the readiness to place oneself at the disposal of others, to be a servant for others.
Must we continue to one wonder why Holy Mother Church can never promote “Pride” or any other vice twisted to be virtue?
Has any of these folks ever considered the Catholic teaching regarding “Pride”? It seems the promotion of Pride, which is correctly understood as vice is inmical to the Catholic Faith.
You're absolutely right! Those who are pushing this agenda on us are those who are guilty of this, "the root of all vice/sin and the strongest influence propelling us to sin".
You in Rochester and us in Albany. BTW, Clark and Hubbard are great friends and fellow seminarians. Both will be retiring in 2013, just a few months apart.
The destruction of Sacred Heart borders on criminal. I followed most of it on this web site - DOMUS DEI . Both bishops were appointed at the recommendation of Archbishop Jean Jadot. He concocted a master plan to install young bishops that would eventually be made Cardinals and vote in a future pope who would 'complete' the reform of the Catholic Church. If you have not done so previously, I encourage you to read - Still Proud Of Bishops He Gave U.S.. It has clarified for me why my bishop has taken certain stances. Part of Hubbard's plan is to turn parishes over to Lay Ecclesial Ministers. With a shrinking number of priests, he views them as Sacramental Ministers who move from one parish to another strictly to administer the sacraments. The end result is twofold - demoralized priesthood and no applicants for the seminary. Another freeper was gracious enough to give me this.
This is the same diocese where they were just told to stop “lay preaching” during the masses. Various “lay preachers” promptly howled to the press that now the “voices of women, gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people” would never be heard. So I guess this shows us what that “lay preaching” was all about.
While Apb Harry Flynn was the one who sent out the message ending “lay preaching,” he was also the one who tolerated and probably even encouraged all of this stuff for years and years. Apb Nienstadt, his successor, is going to have his hands very full.
It is sad because so many of them don’t recognize that they are working for Satan. Some do though.
Thanks for the links, NYer! Could you put me on your ping list as well?
I’ve read the article about Jadot and how he attempted to stack the deck... it’s funny how God wins in the end!
The Diocese of Rochester also has a shrinking number of priests. Every Catholic school that I attended are now closed. Several parishes that I attended are now closed. My parish and my Dad’s and Brother’s parish had pederasts priests as pastors. I’ve seen enough over the years...
So what did you do, or is it a trade secret? And were you successful?
The Diocese of Rochester also has a shrinking number of priests.
No surprise there. If you were a young man contemplating the priesthood, would you want to serve under a bishop who believes lay people should run parishes? Of course not. But these bishops have convinced the flock that there is a crisis in vocations. Archbishop Burke in Saint Louis had to double the size of his seminary to accomodate the seminarians and even ask some to hold off another year. Bottom line - there is no crisis. Commitment to the priesthood entails a vow of obedience to the bishop. Need I say more?
Every Catholic school that I attended are now closed. Several parishes that I attended are now closed. My parish and my Dad’s and Brother’s parish had pederasts priests as pastors. I’ve seen enough over the years...
To a certain extent, there is a need to close some parishes. We've seen the migration to the south but I also predict that with the rising cost of gasoline, more folks will consider leaving suburbia and relocating back to the cities. What will they find? Closed churches. Here in Albany, Our Lady of the Angels, an architectural masterpiece, was sold to the evangelicals who want to rip out the beautiful stained glass windows. I could go on and on ... and so could you. This was the headline in last Sunday's paper.
Nostalgia, pain for parishes - Recommendations for closures to hit Troy hard. This on top of the closures in Schenectady, Albany, Watervliet (5 of the 6 parishes) and now Troy. And, oh yes, plenty of priests who are 'light in the loafers'.
Stay in touch!
Agreed.
Ping for later
I was thinking the same thing. Leftists say gay “rights” won’t affect the churches, but we can see that they will accuse the churches of hate crimes for calling their lifestyle immoral.
Michael J. Bayly
St. Paul, Minnesota, United States
“I was born and raised in rural Australia but am now living in the US and serving as the executive coordinator of the Catholic Pastoral Committee on Sexual Minorities (CPCSM) and the editor of The Progressive Catholic Voice. I established The Wild Reed as a sign of solidarity with all who are dedicated to living lives of integration and wholeness – though, in particular, with gay people seeking to be true to both the gift of their sexuality and their Catholic faith. The Wild Reed simply invites people to observe, reflect upon, and respond to one man’s progressive, gay, Catholic perspective on faith, sexuality, politics, and culture.”
Michael Bayly 
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