Posted on 06/28/2008 3:25:43 PM PDT by NYer
“extra ecclesiam nulla salus”
Now when I was in the first grade in Catholic school, the nun told me that meant that the Greek Orthodox were going to hell because they didn’t “submit” to the Pope of Rome. How much do you want to bet I’ll never forget that or that down deep I still believe that’s what Roman and Latins believe?
“The “church” is just people who have been saved by Jesus Christ. That is all the “church” is - Christian people; and as nice as Christian people are, they have no power to save anyone. Only Christ saves, and that is his business, through the Holy Spirit drawing them to the person of Jesus Christ - the temple not made with human hands.
The idea that some organization of men, doing rituals, making pronouncements, collecting money and sometimes misusing it, some of them engaged in sinful behavior and some of them hiding it, can save anyone defies common sense.”
Makes perfectly good sense to me and I hope you didn’t put soap in your mouth! It tastes nasty!!
Do you really believe that? Do you really believe that, if I worshiped the moist stain on the floor beneath a urinal that it is no worse than any other religion?
The Catholic faith rests on two supernatural events, the Incarnation and the Resurrection of Christ. From these we logically conclude that God gave us a supernatural purpose of eternal life. Any teacher other than Christ can help in explaining why or how, but he cannot alter this reality.
“This issue is at least as misunderstood (or is it misunderestimated??) by non-Catholics (perhaps on purpose to justify certain feelings toward the Church) as Pope Benedict XVI’s statement on the defective nature of the various churches, denomination, and movements that are outside of Christ’s Church.”
This issue is also misunderstood by a few Catholics on FR and I am glad to see this article posted.
Mel
No doubt this Apostasy worked well before the word of God was put into a book that people could read in their own language...Men wearing long robes and performing rituals made them look 'pious'...
Thank God the lies and deception are now out in the open...And yet, some people still chose religion over the words of Jesus Christ...
We have been taught that Christ is the first-begotten of God, and we have declared Him to be the Logos of which all mankind partakes (Jn. 1:9). Those, therefore, who lived according to reason [logos] were really Christians, even though they were thought to be atheists, such as, among the Greeks, Socrates, Heraclitus, and others like them . . . those who lived before Christ but did not live according to reason were wicked men, and enemies of Christ, and murderers of those who did live according to reason, whereas those who lived then or who live now according to reason are Christians. Such as these can be confident and unafraid (First Apology 46).
What a damnable heresy...You are a Christian ONLY if you accept Jesus Christ as your Saviour...No amount of 'reason' will get you into the Body of Christ...
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at naught of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior (no. 7).
Heresy upon heresy...This could only be spoken by a unsaved person who does not know Jesus Christ...Completely unbiblical...
Baptism and unity with the Catholic Church provide the only assurance of salvation,
Sorry, there are millions of Christians who consider your religion to be another cult who have 'real' assurance of Salvation...Assurance from the word of God and the Holy Spirit...
He gave us the Sacrament of Baptism and unity with the Church as the ordinary means of salvation.
Not according to God's words...Repentance and accepting Jesus as your Saviour are the ordinary and ONLY means of Salvation...Any other way will get you into Hell...Eternal damnation...
One would be smart to 'dump' those church fathers and pick up a dime store bible and find the TRUTH...
Thank you for sharing your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
Your personal interpretation of them.
Repentance and accepting Jesus as your Saviour are the ordinary and ONLY means of Salvation...
Sola fide is non-Scriptural error.
You mention heresy? THAT is your heresy.
Many hate the Catholic Church, to be sure.
...who have 'real' assurance of Salvation...
So they have been convinced.
Assurance from the word of God and the Holy Spirit...
Sola fide is not Scriptural. It is a false tradition of men.
That would be the conclusion of someone who has abandoned logic, reason and common sense, right?
Sorry Petronski...That's God's interpretation...We're not allowed to interpret scripture...
Better to splurge on an unredacted copy...you know, the kind with all 73 books.
Nope.
God speaks to that issue...
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Who taught you that Petronski??? Did God teach you that , or~~~
Is God a dispensationalist?
Unfortunately, this definition of ‘the church’ cannot be true, unless Christ is a liar. Look at the Church in context of Scripture.
“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Mat 5:14-15
So here Christ says His Church will be visible.
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18
Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed.
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."Mat 28:18-20
Again, here Jesus assures us that He is always with us, to the very end.
So Christ says His Church will not be destroyed or fall away from him, that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. The church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth is much more than a collection of nice people who read a Bible and believe anything they want.
Yes He did, through His Church, founded by God the Son and guided by God the Holy Spirit.
Or, you don't have a clue what Jesus was talking about....
Jesus was talking to Jewish disciples...Not a Roman Catholic Gentile in the bunch...Jesus was speaking to individuals, not a Roman Catholic church...THAT is the context...
What about the rest of the chapter...It's all the same context...
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Does that verse describe YOU??? And the others that go along with it???
Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed.
No He didn't...Jesus said the 'gates of Hell' would not prevail against it...
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15,/i>
The Living God is the pillar and ground of the truth, not some man-made religion...
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13
Jesus was not talking to the Catholic church...Jesus was neither speaking to just the Apostles or disciples...The Holy Spirt did not come to show truth to the Catholic church...
The discourse starts in chapter 14, for those that own a bible...
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
If a man love me...Not a church...Not a pope, cardinal, bishop or priest...Not an Apostle...A man...Any man...Any man that loves God...
So Christ says His Church will not be destroyed or fall away from him, that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. The church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth is much more than a collection of nice people who read a Bible and believe anything they want.
A guy can prove anything by the scripture if he mis-quotes enough scriptures...
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