What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"

CUF ^

[wagglebee]

I’d like to thank all of you who keep the Catholic and Pro-Life ping lists. It is a valuable resource for many.

Thanks for your kind words. Technically, my ping lists aren't either of these. I do ping most pro-life threads to my "Moral Absolutes" list, but because there are many non-Catholics on the list I specifically avoid pinging it to Catholic threads other than those that deal with moral issues upon which Catholics and Evangelical Protestants are in substantial agreement.

[Iscool]

Do you have this verse in your Bible?

1Pe 3:21 And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

No, I don't...Where'd you get a perversion like that???

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Were you saved by water like Noah??? Noah got saved by NOT GETTING WET...The people that got immersed in the water all died...

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The like figure, or, the picture...Baptism is a 'picture' or 'figure' of your Salvation that is 'like' the account of Noah and his family being saved...And if Baptism is a 'figure', it is not the real thing...It is like the real thing...The real thing was Noah being saved by NOT falling into the water...

Baptism give a figure of what happened to us at Salvation...The figure is like what happened to Noah...

Did Noah get baptized??? NO...Did Noah get sprinkled??? NO...Did he get immersed??? No...Noah didn't even get wet...

Baptism pictures death, burial and resurrection (Rom 6:1-4)... A person who is not already a Christian can not be a partaker in the baptism...Therefore you can't get saved by baptism...

(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)

No unsaved man has a 'good conscience, to answer...

Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Or this one: Mat 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Dang those pesky facts

I'll let you know if I see one...

The next verse is a continuation of that verse

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So what did Jesus teach them that they are to do??? Do you know???

Footwashing, healing the sick, cleansing lepers, raising the dead, NOT taking up an offering, going to Israel only, keeping the Sabbath, abstaining from eating pork, no haircuts, no shaves, and everything in the Sermon on the Mount...

Does this sound like your Catholic church??? Do you observe all things that Jesus commanded??? NO??? Why not???

Did the disciples go to all nations to preach??? NO??? They stayed in Jerusalem??? Why's that??? And Peter, James and John wind up preaching to Jews only, not all the nations??? Why's that???

And Peter baptized in the name of Jesus...Not the Trinity...Why's that??? Do you know??? Do you know anything about any of the scripture you are quoting???

[verga]

I like your plan, you can't discuss the issues so you use a B@st@rd version of the Bible and the shotgun approach hoping something will stick.

Lets use the origninal Greek 1Pe 3:21 sw tbao tsakai tshmav aumav antitupon nun bkai bhmav swzei baptisma ou sarkov apoqesiv rupou alla suneidhsewv agaqhv eperwthma eiv qeon di anastasewv ihsou xristou

Yeah that pretty much settles it Baptism does save you.

That is the really great thing about those two semesters of Greek I had at the graduate level, while working on a Masters degree in Theology, it lets you spot errors in translation and logic.

Since I have proved you wrong in this translation we can assume that the rest of your post is just as wrong.

Thanks for playing I am certain that there are some lovely parting gifts for you.

Buh-Bye

[annalex]

does it seem at all risky to you? Tenuous? Pretentious? Does it ever give you any pause? Should it? Just asking.

There is no usurpation. The only Savior I know is Jesus Christ and He set up one Catholic Church as the vessel of universal salvation. I know that from the scripture: in Matthew 16:18-20 Christ promised that He will build His Church for the express purpoes of opening the Heavenly Kindgom; in Acts 2:38 St. Peter urged all to come to repentance and be baptised in my Church; in 1 Peter 3:21 St. Peter directly links baptism to salvation, and it is one baptism that we believe in not several (1 Cor 12:13).

I know that many prefer to inject some allegorical sense in these verses and speak of some hypothetical invisible universal church of which the Catholic Church is but a part. But nowhere in the Holy Scripture do we see this notion supported, and in 1 Corinthians 1:10 St. Paul directly teaches that whatever distinctions exist, they should not amount to any whatsoever doctrinal disunity.

Others say that the Scripture does not describe the Catholic Church at all, not even as a part of some whole, because the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church, and the hierarchical clerical structure are not defined with precision in the Scripture. To this I say that surely the essential part of every sacrament is described in the Scripture; the primacy of Peter is described, apostolic succession of bishops is described; on the other hand it is not realistic to expect the same trappings of power and glory that we see in modern Catholic Church of a billion people, in the underground nascent Church of 1c. As far as one wishes to go in history, the writings of the Fathers of the Church describe a church that I instantly recognize as the Catholic Church I know today.

We are divided today, to be sure -- we have our separated "second lung" our beloved sister Orthodox Church that despite centuries of separation retained her original Catholic character (or is it that we retained her Orthodox character?), apostolic succession and salvific power of God.

Pride is a great sin at the root of which is denial of God. To proclaim the Gospel and to obey it as written, howbeit proudly or loudly is not a sin, it is a commandment. "He that shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him the Son of man shall be ashamed, when he shall come in his majesty, and that of his Father, and of the holy angels"; "preach ye upon the housetops".

Your father converted to Catholicism and he dealt with it, you say, "imperfectly". Well... so did every saint except Our Lady. Ask for his prayers.

[Petronski]

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The like figure, or, the picture...Baptism is a 'picture' or 'figure' of your Salvation that is 'like' the account of Noah and his family being saved...And if Baptism is a 'figure', it is not the real thing...It is like the real thing...The real thing was Noah being saved by NOT falling into the water...

O please tell me you're not serious. Maybe you can have a mod delete that before too many read it.

Oh good grief, that's ridiculous.

Is that what "dime store bibles" are like?

Here's actual Scripture:

1Pe 3:20 Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 Whereunto baptism, being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but, the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[annalex]

I join you in thanking those who give us this excellent coverage of things Catohlic.

On my part, I do not have a single list for all times. I choose a certain type of articles and make a guess of who might be interested. People then drop out or join with the subsequent articles.

[Petronski]

Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

So what did Jesus teach them that they are to do??? Do you know???

Well, St. Paul tells us of this:

1Co 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread,
1Co 11:24 And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me.
1Co 11:25 In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood. This do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.
1Co 11:27 Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

Here's another command of Christ, to St. Peter:

Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

And another, to all of His Disciples there gathered:

Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.

[isom35]

the paragraphs are nicely spaced.

[enat]

“Yeah that pretty much settles it Baptism does save you”

Well then, from your two semesters of Greek we get the mechanical act of baptism is continuing to save us. Of course that contradicts what Peter says in 1 Peter 1:5, “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” but who needs to reconcile apparent contradictions when one has dogma.

[xhrist]

"NOTE TO BYSTANDERS: ... I am completely uninterested in anything anyone else might care to say, so please save it. "

NOTE FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE: Hit the "Private Reply" button. Otherwise you come off a bit snarky with such a 'long and begging for a reply' post

[verga]

Well then, from your two semesters of Greek we get the mechanical act of baptism is continuing to save us. Of course that contradicts what Peter says in 1 Peter 1:5, “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” but who needs to reconcile apparent contradictions when one has dogma.

So you are saying that the Bible is lying?

You know that usually you folks whine that the main things are the plain, and the plain things are the main things.

What could be more plain than "Baptism now saves you" Unless of course it would be "This is My Body", and This is My Blood."

Let me know when you guys decide to get your stories straight.

[xhrist]

Thank you for posting this.. Always appreciative and glad to receive your ping list pings!!

[xhrist]

Thank you for posting this.. Always appreciative and glad to receive your ping list pings!!

[Petronski]

Well then, from your two semesters of Greek we get the mechanical act of baptism is continuing to save us.

Continuing?

Where did verga say continuing?

[Hebrews 11:6]

I’ll take that as a “No.” Thanks. May our Lord richly bless you and yours.

[enat]

“What could be more plain than “Baptism now saves you”

How can a mechanical act performed once in the past continue to save anybody?

That is Trent's sacramental theory, ‘If anyone shall say that grace is not conferred ex opere operato (i.e., ‘by the act performed’), but that belief in the divine promise alone suffices to obtain grace, let him be anathema.’ i.e. grace is objectively conveyed in a sacrament by virtue of the execution of the sacramental action. The emphasis is upon the right administration, then the grace is automatically conferred as long as the baptismal candidate is not in a state of mortal sin.

The answer of course, it doesn't. That is why the last part of the verse places the emphasis on the baptismal confession of faith consistent with the whole scheme of God’s dealings with men on the basis of faith.; which is what Peter says in 1:5.

“Where did verga say continuing? “

When he posted the Greek form for “doth also now save”; it is the present, active, indicative. Peter is writing to believers in the churches that have already been baptized and that mechanical act “ex opere operato (i.e., ‘by the act performed’)” regardless of their faith is saving them as he writes and they read, according to that interpretation.

[annalex]

Thank you; likewise.

[Petronski]

When he posted the Greek form for “doth also now save”; it is the present, active, indicative.

In contrast to the past tense in the previous verse. Peter is saying "Baptism saves." He is not saying "those who have been Baptized are continually thereby saved."

[annalex]

The baptism does not continue to save: a commission of a mortal sin requires a sacramental confession and growth in faith. St. Peter makes areference to the past event, the flood, hence “now”.

Nothing in that passage contradicts the sacramental character of baptism.

[annalex]

like everything else in Protestant theological fantasies, this one stems from lack of reading comprehension.