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Catholic Caucus: It is a sin to vote/support Obama/DNC [abortion]
Various - statements of Bishops ^ | June 29, 2008

Posted on 06/29/2008 3:18:33 AM PDT by topher

It is clear from a number of statements by Bishops and by statements of the Magesterium of the Church that it would be a sin to vote/support Obama Barack for President. Also, because of the planks of the Democratic Party, it would be sinful to support/contribute to a party that holds abortion to be a right.

Clearly, people can vote for Obama Barack. It is just that it is a sin to do so.

The Priests for Life has a number of documents on statements of various Bishops/Cardinals and the Church on this matter. There are the following links:

Statements of Bishops on Elections -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/elections/bishops.htm

Documents from the Bishops' Conference -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/elections/bishops.htm#conf

Documents from the Vatican -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/elections/bishops.htm#vatican

Additionally, there is the general web page on elections for Priests for Life -- Priests for Life Elections web page -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/elections/"


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: 2008; abortion; catholic; catholicvote; election; obama; proaborts; prolife; sin
Certainly it is time to let other Catholics know that it is a serious sin to support the Democratic National Party (because of their abortion plank/embryonic stem cell research plank) as well as the candidacy of Obama Barack -- who garnered the support of NARAL and Planned Parenthood over Hillary Clinton...

It should be clear that Catholics would be committing a SERIOUS sin by voting/supporting Obama Barack and the DNC.

1 posted on 06/29/2008 3:18:34 AM PDT by topher
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To: topher

It is time to start e-mails flying in Catholic circles to get the word out about how sinful it is to vote/support Obama Barack.


2 posted on 06/29/2008 3:20:11 AM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: topher

I’m studying to be Catholic — is it OK if I lurk on this thread? Maybe ask a few intelligent questions if any arise?


3 posted on 06/29/2008 3:20:52 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

I think RCIA is close enough for Caucus purposes.


4 posted on 06/29/2008 3:22:01 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: topher
Ironically, one of the more recent statements is by the Bishops of Illinois on this matter:

Elections, Conscience and the Responsibility to Vote - Catholic Bishops of Illinois -- October 2006 (PDF format) -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/illinois-bishops-election-2006.pdf

Ironically, it is the Bishops of Obama Barack's home state that has made the last statement on this issue -- in 2006.

The key quote from this document is:

. . . The first and most essential principle of our social teaching is the dignity of every human person and each one's basic right to life from conception to natural death. Respect for human dignity is the basis for the fundamental right to life. This a non-negotiable principle that is supported by our beliefs but is logically independent of our faith. . . .

5 posted on 06/29/2008 3:31:06 AM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: Petronski; topher

OK, I got a question then: does the Holy Father in Rome ever endorse US Presidential candidates? Which one would he be likely to endorse this time around?


6 posted on 06/29/2008 3:33:31 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Some of the statements of the Bishops are rather interesting for one studying to be a Catholic.

The 2004 Election -- since John Kerry was a Catholic candidate -- gave the Bishops the chance to speak out how it was wrong for a Catholic Candidate to receive Holy Communion.

The joint statement of Archbishop John Francis Donoghue and two other bishops stood out that year -- for they specifically forbade John Kerry and other pro-abortion politicans from receiving Holy Communion...

7 posted on 06/29/2008 3:34:19 AM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
The short answer is that the Holy Father would only say something after the person is elected -- as the Holy Father spoke out against Adolf Hitler. At least, that is clear from the recent History of the Church.

However, Pope Benedict XVI, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger in 2004, did not endorse a candidate, but tried to specify what circumstances one could support someone who is for abortion.

Basically, it would take an opposing candidate that would be urging the loss of more lives than those of abortion (a greater evil) to allow someone to support the abortion candidate.

Since there are over 40 million abortions in the United States since 1973, it would take something like a candidate advocating a nuclear war or a conventional war with 50 to 100 million deaths from such a war.

What Cardinal Ratzinger did during 2004 election campaign was to write a letter to the Cardinal of Washington, DC -- explaining how only something more evil could allow one to vote for someone who was a pro-abortion candidate. The letter was to Cardinal McCarrick (who has since retired).

The media misinterpreted the letter to mean that it was okay to support John Kerry. But that was the typical twisting of the truth by the media.

Sorry for the long winded answer...

8 posted on 06/29/2008 3:42:14 AM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
OK, I got a question then: does the Holy Father in Rome ever endorse US Presidential candidates?

No.

Which one would he be likely to endorse this time around?

I do not know if Benedict XVI would endorse McCain, but he most certainly would not endorse the candidate who killed the "Born Alive" legislation in the Illinois state legistlature, the one who clings to abortion-on-demand without remorse.

9 posted on 06/29/2008 5:09:07 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: topher

/”It is time to start e-mails flying in Catholic circles to get the word out about how sinful it is to vote/support Obama Barack.”/

Especially e-mails in Spanish... hehe.


10 posted on 06/29/2008 5:29:24 AM PDT by T-Bro (Hey, dems... tax this!)
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To: Petronski
I do not know if Benedict XVI would endorse McCain, but he most certainly would not endorse the candidate who killed the "Born Alive" legislation in the Illinois state legistlature, the one who clings to abortion-on-demand without remorse.

This is key. Not only is Obama simply pro-abortion (evil as that is), but he is pro-death. If he supports killing a child outside of the womb, what is to say that it is not proper to kill the elderly or disabled by euthanasia.

Catholics should not support Obama.

Blacks should not support Obama, as it is their race that is hurt the worst by abortion (yet you will never hear Sharpton or Jackson say that).

As to whether it is sinful, I'm not completely sure. I would suggest that in many cases (Catholics who have received any sort of moral education whatsoever), the answer is probably yes.

11 posted on 06/29/2008 6:30:36 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (Sour grapes make terrible whine.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Diehard, I’m estatic to hear this. Welcome home my friend. Ask away.


12 posted on 06/29/2008 6:38:56 AM PDT by SaintDismas
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To: GCC Catholic
However, Alveda King (niece of Martin Luther King, Jr.) has been waging a battle against abortion among African Americans...
13 posted on 06/29/2008 11:06:21 AM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: topher

I did not know that... thank you very much for mentioning it. I hope she can get her word out more.


14 posted on 06/29/2008 11:17:45 AM PDT by GCC Catholic (Sour grapes make terrible whine.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Sure, we will even stamp your confessional card. For those of us who recognize Gaelic but do not speak it, what does your siggie say?

Prayers for your reception into the Catholic Church. May God bless your journey home.


15 posted on 06/29/2008 1:05:32 PM PDT by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

> For those of us who recognize Gaelic but do not speak it, what does your siggie say?

(grin!) It’s our family motto: “I am the Chieftain of my Clan. I bow to nobody. Get out of my way.”


16 posted on 06/29/2008 1:16:59 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: GCC Catholic
Alveda King (former married name Tookes) is now a Pastoral Associate of Priests for Life. She can be booked into speaking engagements through the Speaker's Bureau at Priests for Life and is head of the African American Outreach of Priests for Life...

Her web page at Priests for Life is:

Priests for Life -- African American Outreach -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/africanamerican/index.htm

The Priests for Life web page is:

Priests for Life -- http://www.priestsforlife.org/

17 posted on 06/29/2008 9:19:37 PM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: topher
Embryonic stem-cell research immoral, unnecessary, bishops say

Catholics should not vote for Obama

Catholic Caucus: It is a sin to vote/support Obama/DNC [abortion]

More Catholics leaning towards Democrats, poll reports (really not Catholics)

The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)

Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion....

NARAL Catholics Line Up for Obama

Editorial: Disagreeing with Doug Kmiec One More Time

State-Funded Embryo Research "Makes Taxpayers Complicit in Killing", say Bishops

McCain Meets Privately with Fr. Pavone - Says Constitutional Right to Life Applies to Unborn

Faithful Citizenship: “Catholic Vote” is very sought after

Has Obama dissolved his Catholic advisory council?

Commentary: Faithful Citizenship and the Formed Conscience

Catholic League: Where's Obama's 'Catholic Advisory Council'? [Not to be found!]

Right-wing Christians beginning to lean left (Misleading headline)

Catholics Debate Obama Vote

US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]

Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?

DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election

EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign

The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)

Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question

Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers

McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)

Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops

18 posted on 06/30/2008 8:27:25 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation
I may be wrong, but Matthew 18:4-7 is a very convincing argument that this is a very serious sin.

The reason is that a pro-abortion politician is up for re-election, one is contributing to the sin of scandal.

Not only it is a question that Obama supports ABORTION, but also that he supports EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH, EUTHANASIA, and HOMOSEXUALITY.

The reason being that one is part of the process of corrupting innocents as referred in this passage of the Gospel.

Jesus states that it is better to kill yourself than to cause others to sin...

The passage in question:

Matt 18:4-7

4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.

6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!

(NIV)

In my opinion, IT IS THE SIN OF SCANDAL. Many will believe if the President of the United States (Clinton/Carter/etc.) or the Speaker of the House (Pelosi, a woman), or a Kennedy (Senator Ted), then abortion is okay, and they do not need to listen to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Since some prominent politicans (Pelosi/Biden/Kennedy, etc) support abortion, then for some innocents, abortion must be okay.

The sin of scandal (which this voting contributes to) is a very serious sin.

There is also the scandal of other positions these politicians support which are serious sins:

Embryonic Stem Cell Research

Euthanasia

Homosexuality

Abortion is part of the issue, but it is the Scandal of Obama/Biden-Pelosi.

19 posted on 10/27/2008 9:45:35 PM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
One interesting passage from the Bible/Gospel is Matthew 18:4-7.

Basically, in this passage Jesus is speaking. Jesus states that it is better for a person to kill themself than to cause SCANDAL (the corruption of innocents).

Matt 18:4-7

4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 "And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me.

6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!

(NIV)


20 posted on 10/27/2008 9:54:24 PM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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To: topher

This passage does not bode well for Abortionists. Jesus is very plain about that.


21 posted on 10/28/2008 4:25:42 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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