Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Something old, something new... [weddings: Mormon, Christian, Muslim, Hindu]
Evansville Courier & Press ^ | June 7, 2008 | Susan Orr

Posted on 07/02/2008 8:18:28 AM PDT by delacoert

Wedding customs of the faithful range from solemn to colorful

In the big picture of life, all weddings are the same — they're about two people joining their lives (and families) together.

But, of course, all weddings are a little bit different, too, based on the couple's background and preferences.

Those who opt for a civil ceremony might want a simple exchange of vows at the county courthouse or an elaborate gathering with the wedding party dressed in period costumes.

Protestant weddings also can vary, depending on the denomination, church and officiating clergy.

Some faiths (Catholic) have a lot of rules about how the service should look, while others (Muslim) can vary greatly depending on the couple's cultural background. Some weddings involve wine (Jewish), some involve fire (Hindu), and some faiths consider their wedding vows as enduring not just on Earth, but into the afterlife (Mormon).

Here's what Tri-State residents had to say about what weddings are like within their faith.

Catholic

Catholic weddings differ from Protestant ceremonies in a few key ways.

For one thing, they're usually longer, says Matt Miller, director of the Catholic Diocese of Evansville's office of worship.

A full Catholic wedding that includes Mass, Miller said, may last 60 to 90 minutes.

Typically, the couple and their wedding party sits and kneels along with everyone else during the Mass, then stands while exchanging vows.

Unless there are extraordinary circumstances that would prevent it, Catholic weddings always take place in a Catholic Church.

Often, Miller said, couples opt to show devotion to a saint during the wedding ceremony — perhaps by offering flowers before a statue of that saint. Mary is usually chosen, Miller said, because of "her example of selfless service and total giving over to another."

Because of the religious component of the wedding, the wedding processional includes not just the bride and her attendants, but also the priest and other ministers who officiate.

Jewish

Jewish weddings actually involve two separate ceremonies. The first is an engagement ceremony, followed by the wedding ceremony.

During each ceremony, the couple sips wine from a shared cup as a symbol of their union.

"They use sweet wine so that from now on, they will be sharing life's sweetness," said Rabbi Barry Friedman of Temple Adath B'nai Israel.

The back-to-back ceremonies are a modification of ancient Jewish custom in which the engagement ceremony — considered a binding arrangement breakable only by divorce — took place a full year before the wedding ceremony.

Jewish weddings also incorporate physical symbols of the couple's future life together.

During the ceremony the couple stands under a canopy called a chuppah which symbolizes their first shared home.

At the end of the ceremony, the groom breaks a glass under his foot. This action has many possible meanings, Friedman said, but it's often understood to represent both the destruction of the Jerusalem temple and the fact that life contains both sorrow and happy times.

Muslim

Muslims hail from many different countries, so their wedding customs can vary greatly depending on where the couple live.

"There's no particular 'Muslim wedding' because the culture is so diverse," said Bushra Saqib of Carmi, Ill., a member of the Islamic Society of Evansville.

For instance, Saqib said, in her native country of Pakistan, red is a popular color for brides, while Middle Eastern Muslim brides often wear white wedding dresses.

That said, there are some commonalities among all Muslim weddings.

Islam does not have clergy as some other faiths do, so weddings can be performed by any Muslim with good standing in the community.

Saqib's husband, Zahid, a physician, has officiated at a number of Muslim weddings.

Before the ceremony, the bride's family and the groom's family meet to come up with a marriage contract that both bride and groom will sign during the wedding ceremony.

The groom is required to provide his bride with a gift, Zahid Saqib said, and this is detailed in the contract. Other elements of the contract may stipulate the standard of living the husband will provide, the amount of housework the wife will do and where they will live.

"You can actually put down anything in the contract. It's up to the people to decide," Zahid Saqib said.

The bride should have her father or another man with good community standing give her away, and the wedding must include at least two witnesses.

Mormon

In the five-plus years that Sam Rogers has served as bishop of the Newburgh ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, he's officiated at only a few local weddings.

That's in large part because of the church's beliefs about marriage.

The church teaches that the marriage bond can endure into the afterlife, but only if the couple have their marriage sealed in a Mormon temple. The church's ideal is for couples to marry and be sealed in a temple, and Rogers estimated that the vast majority of active Mormons opt to marry inside a temple. (Indiana has no Mormon temples, but Louisville, Ky., and St. Louis do.)

Rogers said the church does not reveal details of the sealing ceremony because of its sacred nature, and even among Mormons not everyone can enter the temple.

To qualify for temple admission, a person must answer questions posed by local church officials to determine if the person is living in accordance with church teachings. If the person gains the officials' approval, he or she receives a "temple recommend" that is valid for two years.

Those who marry in a local Mormon church typically must wait a year before being sealed in a temple, Rogers said.

Local church weddings are usually simple and relatively brief.

"It's a pretty low-key ceremony that we feel like invites the spirit to attend," Rogers said.

Hindu

Hindu weddings include many customs not seen in other faiths.

"Hindu wedding is different from other weddings," said Sushma Jain of Evansville, a member of the Tri-State's Hindu community.

The marriage may be arranged — Jain and her husband, K.C., have three daughters who all chose an arranged marriage — but tradition is shifting, and more and more young people opt to choose their own spouses.

The wedding takes place in front of a sacred fire that represents the deity Agni. Agni is also considered to be the principal witness to the ceremony. As part of the ceremony, the couple walk around the fire several times.

Another important part of the ceremony occurs when the bride's parents place her right hand in the groom's right hand as a symbol of the couple's coming together.

Hindu theology includes many deities, but at weddings worship is focused on Ganesh because he is associated with good luck and the removal of obstacles.

Among the other wedding traditions are several formal greetings exchanged by different members of the bride's and groom's families.

This custom, Jain said, shows that a wedding unites more than just the bride and groom.

"The wedding is not boy and girl. The wedding is between both the families," she said.


TOPICS: Ecumenism; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; ctr; lds; marriage; mormon; mormonbashing; protestant
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-157 next last
In another thread, open access to Mormon Temple ceremonies came up as a side issue. It is very interesting to read about public openness of one the world's most joyous ceremonies. I thought the discussion of Mormon marriage provided an interesting contrast:


1 posted on 07/02/2008 8:18:29 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man; sevenbak; pby; colorcountry; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Virginia Ridgerunner
Open access to Mormon services was so eloquently extended by Old Mountain man:

I found it interesting that even family member find themselves unable to attend some marriage ceremonies. I’ll bet that is painful.

2 posted on 07/02/2008 8:20:12 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert; greyfoxx39

After a year of obeying all the rules and regulations required to be a “worthy” mormon, you must have an interview with the bishop and satisfactorily answer the following questions in order to receive a temple “recommend” which will allow you entrance. There you may take part in the “marriage ordinances” that are believed to be necessary to enter the mormon equivalent of the Christian heaven, the ability to reside with God and His Son.

TEMPLE RECOMMEND QUESTIONS

1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house and participate in temple ordinances?


3 posted on 07/02/2008 8:23:39 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Traditionally there is a huge difference between Catholic marriages and others in that you pledge yourself to your spouse for life, for better or worse. We have believed that only by tying yourself to another’s unforseen needs are you likely to be wrenched out of your innate selfishness so that you’re other-centered and can appreciate God when you meet him face-to-face.

Sadly, recent American Catholic divorce statistics are as bad as non-Catholics.


4 posted on 07/02/2008 8:29:03 AM PDT by prolifefirst
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

I think the Mormon approach to marriage has been very effective in preventing the wildly expensive, ostentatious displays that have become the norm for weddings in this country (as well as in many other countries, including Hindus, Muslims, etc). “Getting married” has become largely about the huge fairy-tale party day and associated financial irresponsibility. If only a handful of close relatives can be present, and not even all of those, rationality is more likely to reign. From what I understand, although Mormon temple sealings are usually followed by some sort of reception, the receptions are generally pretty restrained by mainstream standards. And since there’s a stigma attached to Mormon chapel weddings, I imagine the associated receptions would be even more restrained, especially since many couples would still be looking forward to their “real” wedding in the temple at some later date.


5 posted on 07/02/2008 8:30:41 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
After a year of obeying all the rules and regulations required to be a “worthy” mormon, you must have an interview with the bishop and satisfactorily answer the following questions in order to receive a temple “recommend” which will allow you entrance. There you may take part in the “marriage ordinances” that are believed to be necessary to enter the mormon equivalent of the Christian heaven, the ability to reside with God and His Son.

If a mormon does NOT obtain a temple recommend, as in the above post, he/she will NOT be allowed to attend a temple wedding....even if the bride or groom happens to be a child or parent of the "unworthy" mormon.

The "unworthy ones" are made to stay out, but they ARE allowed to gather on the temple steps for the family portrait following the wedding.

And, of course the "unworthies" are allowed to attend and bring gifts to the reception which is not held on "sacred" property.

6 posted on 07/02/2008 8:32:45 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tagline on vacation during the grand experiment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker
I think the Mormon approach to marriage has been very effective in preventing the wildly expensive, ostentatious displays that have become the norm for weddings in this country

Then I suppose you haven't attended the likes of my nephew's wedding last month. A family dinner was held on Friday, followed by a Temple ceremony on Saturday Morning (many of the family, including the grandmother was barred from attending), and a lavish and costly reception at Salt Lake's famed McCune mansion where there was a light buffet and dancing. Mighty big bucks were spent in order to "WOW" the crowd.

Of course, the couple had engaged in premarital sex and some light drug use, and so the family knows they lied to the Bishop in order to receive the required "Temple Recommend." But what the heck - appearances were kept! Who cares if a lie was perpetuated?

7 posted on 07/02/2008 8:41:15 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

Painful? Yes, I find it painful that there are many parents who are not worthy to attend the Temple.

That’s why we do NOT have receptions in our Temples.


8 posted on 07/02/2008 8:43:38 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Official FR PITA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man
I find it painful that there are many parents who are not worthy to attend the Temple.

Are you truly worthy OMM? It seems you think you are, but that is between you and your Bishop, unless of course you happen to miss your childs wedding ceremony, and then we will all know you have a problem with answering the questions in the recommend interview - - we could recognize that you are not worthy.

This process sets people up for derision and shame within their congregations - - or it causes them to lie in order to keep up appearances of righteousness.

I feel bad for those who find worthiness in their own actions and works and forget that it is Jesus Christ that cleases us from all sin. I guess Jesus did warrant at least one mention in the Temple Recommend Questions.

9 posted on 07/02/2008 8:51:46 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GovernmentShrinker
I think the Mormon approach to marriage has been very effective in preventing the wildly expensive, ostentatious displays that have become the norm for weddings in this country.

Wow, how forward thinking of them.

Of course you could hold a wedding that is open to everyone in family, church, neighborhood. Have the gown made by bride and friends, and bridesmaids in simple (unmatched dresses). Have the groom and best man wear suits they already owned. Hold a covered dish reception open to everyone afterward with 500 people in attendance where the minister hands check back to groom and the couple still be married (to each other) after 26 years.

I'm not say that our wedding prevented the rest of the country from having "wildly expensive, ostentatious displays" like yours did though.

10 posted on 07/02/2008 8:55:50 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man
That’s why we do NOT have receptions in our Temples.

I guess Mormons really only go to weddings to attend the reception.

11 posted on 07/02/2008 8:59:07 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry

I suppose you are not worthy?


12 posted on 07/02/2008 9:00:03 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Official FR PITA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
Speaking as someone who performed 14 weddings just last month and who is a Bible teacher, there is no formula for a wedding in the Bible. It is all cultural traditions. The only formula for marriage is in Genesis 2: "Leave, Cleave, and Weave" - "...a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined [cleave] to his wife; and they shall become one flesh."

Everything else is man-made.

13 posted on 07/02/2008 9:03:50 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Of course, the couple had engaged in premarital sex and some light drug use, and so the family knows they lied to the Bishop in order to receive the required "Temple Recommend." But what the heck - appearances were kept! Who cares if a lie was perpetuated?

It boggles the mind. The recommend was so important that it was OK to bar family members from the ceremony. And lieing, which violates one of the ten commandments, against bearing false witness. And a lavish reception, which probably had no alcohol served. That is a high price to pay to be married in a temple.

I'm sorry, but that is why I am an atheistic agnostic. Or maybe an agnostic atheist? Churches, like all other institutions, are social constructs, and rarely do they offer anything other than a form of social control. In many ways, gangs are like churches. They provide an us to belong to, and a them to be against. And rigid requirements for membership.

14 posted on 07/02/2008 9:04:57 AM PDT by webheart (I am Webheart, and I approved this post.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man

You are correct. I am not worthy to attend a Mormon Temple. I cannot answer questions #3, #4, #8 or #11 truthfully and still find approval within your organization.

The only question I must answer in the affirmative is question #2 and that gives me access to all the blessings that are His to offer. - it is all I need and it has given me the zeal to live for Him, in Him and through Him as a new creation.


15 posted on 07/02/2008 9:05:35 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

I’m counting myself as lucky. I’m having a Catholic wedding in October and a Hindu wedding in December. This way, each mother has her own list of details over which she can fret endlessly, and at the end, both families will feel good and married.


16 posted on 07/02/2008 9:06:24 AM PDT by AirForceBrat23
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: webheart
God hates lies. That is all that needs to be said on the subject.

Any institution that fosters lies is not of God.

17 posted on 07/02/2008 9:08:49 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry

Then you should not spend your life in pursuit of the destruction of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. You will not succeed. You should find something positive to do with your life.


18 posted on 07/02/2008 9:12:41 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Official FR PITA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: LiteKeeper

Another chance to post the picts of my son’s wedding on June 21!

http://nickellphotography.blogspot.com/2008/06/victoria-and-joe.html

The ceremony was simple, inexpensive, joyful and significant. And best of all - - everyone was included!


19 posted on 07/02/2008 9:12:55 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man

My life is very significant in Him. He leads me down paths of righteousness for His sake. I strive only to do His will.


20 posted on 07/02/2008 9:20:42 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry

And you think His will for you is to constantly harp on and belittle those who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? Goodness, I think you may be confused. Confused about the source of your idea of “His Will”.


21 posted on 07/02/2008 9:23:29 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Official FR PITA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

So the article is equal parts Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, and Hindu...yet the thread is pretty much only about Mormons, and it’s the usual suspects too!


22 posted on 07/02/2008 9:23:59 AM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

It was an interesting read. I found the comparisons
between the two Polytheistic religions (believe in many gods)
very interesting...

I am of course speaking of Hinduism and Mormonism

Hindus believe in 300 million gods
Mormons believe in billions or possibly trillions -
depending on how many of their men folk become gods.

So reading about how these religions view marriage
was very interesting. Thank you.


23 posted on 07/02/2008 9:28:30 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Domandred; delacoert
The posting of the article was prompted by (as the poster states in his first post):

In another thread, open access to Mormon Temple ceremonies came up as a side issue. It is very interesting to read about public openness of one the world's most joyous ceremonies. I thought the discussion of Mormon marriage provided an interesting contrast:

And so, this thread is in fact about mostly about Mormonism, and yet you take this opportunity to deride those of us who have responded. Interesting........

24 posted on 07/02/2008 9:34:31 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Any institution that fosters lies is not of God.

That's how I have it figured. That's why you can lie to them all day long since it's a fake religion. I have no conscience regarding such fakery. If one of your kids still falls for the overpowering social process and wants to get married there like your nephew did, God will have a nice little chuckle. Indeed that higher power has a very intense sense of humor.

Of course WE have a large task with them afterwards to convince them of the fakery as we teach them life's little pleasures over a cup of coffee.

25 posted on 07/02/2008 9:35:26 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah, where the world comes to see America)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man

I understand what you are saying and why.

Thanks for your opinion, but I doubt that you’ll be surprised that it has no bearing upon my life.


26 posted on 07/02/2008 9:36:20 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
This was an interesting article to read, then you turned it into a “Mormon” bashing session.

I find it very offensive that you have included The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as non Christian.

To show you have the truth on your side and that you have the right to do this, please answer the following::

Besides reading the anti-Mormon sites, and anti-mormon threads here at FR, I also read some of the anti-Christian sites.

Their arguments are about as bad as the anti-Mormon sites.

PROVE TO THEM that Jesus is really the Christ.

And, please practice here before you face the anti-Christians. I would like to see how you defend your belief in Christ.

27 posted on 07/02/2008 9:52:53 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
Temples have always been revered and reserved as sacred ground. Anciently, the prophet Ezekiel declared, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary" (Ezek. 44:9). The Prophet Joseph Smith prayed that "[the temple] may be sanctified and consecrated to be holy, and that thy holy presence may be continually in this house" (D&C 109:12), "and that no unclean thing shall be permitted to come into thy house to pollute it" (D&C 109:20).

After construction and before a temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been dedicated to the Lord, an open house is held and the general public is invited to enter and view the rooms. But for participation in a temple dedication and for all ordinances performed in the temple thereafter, only members of the Church who have a current identification card, called a temple recommend, may enter.

Temple recommends are given to members of the Church who have completed the preliminary steps of faith, repentance, baptism, and confirmation. Adult males must also have been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood. Temple recommends are usually issued by a bishop and countersigned by a member of the stake presidency in interviews conducted in private. The bishop, who is responsible as a "judge in Israel" (D&C 107:72, 74, 76), conducts the initial interview. He seeks to discern personal worthiness and standards of Christlike living and counsels appropriately with those whose lives are in need of any change or repentance. It is considered a serious matter to become prepared to receive the covenants, ordinances, and blessings of the temple. Questions are asked to ascertain one's faith in God the Eternal Father, in his Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; and inquiry is made regarding the person's testimony of the restored gospel and loyalty to the teachings and leaders of the Church. Worthiness requirements include being honest, keeping the commandments, such as chastity—sexual continence before marriage and fidelity within marriage—obeying the laws of tithing and the Word of Wisdom, fulfilling family responsibilities and avoiding affiliation with dissident groups. The First Presidency often emphasizes that it is a solemn responsibility for a bishop or stake president to conduct a temple recommend interview. An equal responsibility rests upon the person who is interviewed to respond to questions fully and honestly (Ensign 8 [Nov. 1978]:40-43). One practical purpose of the recommend interview is to help the applicant be adequately prepared to commit to the way of life the temple covenants will require.

Currently three different types of recommends are given: (1) for members to receive their own Endowment, to be sealed to a spouse, or to be married in the temple for time only; (2) for members who have received their Endowment to participate in all temple ordinances for the dead (see Salvation for the Dead); and (3) for unendowed members to (a) be baptized on behalf of the dead, (b) be sealed to their parents, or (c) witness sealings of their living brothers and sisters to their parents. The same standards of worthiness apply for all recommends.

Packer, Boyd K. The Holy Temple, pp. 11, 26-28, 50-53. Salt Lake City, 1980.

28 posted on 07/02/2008 9:57:30 AM PDT by sevenbak (Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on. - Job 21:3)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: sevenbak

You do understand that in OT times there was ONE Temple at a time and not the myriad McTemples of todays Mormonism. The book of Hebrews tells us that since the time of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice the veil has been rent in two giving us all access to God. Hebrews does have a very distinctive way of viewing the Christ event. It is seen as the fulfillment of the ritual law. The Jews had a magnificent religious ritual centered in the temple service. They were very proud of it, not the least reason being that God Himself had given it to them. Hebrews shows that the Person and work of Jesus Christ is the reality of the entire sacrificial system - the need for Temple is finished.

Ceremonies in modern Mormon Temples are not related in any way to the ancient ceremonies of blood sacrifice that were performed in the OT Temple.

Your comparison to “sanctification” and sacredness are in no way equivalent unless you have preists who are taking in sacrifices and making burnt offerings....lol..


29 posted on 07/02/2008 10:10:49 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
God hates lies. That is all that needs to be said on the subject.

Any institution that fosters lies is not of God.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

You are doing it again.

First you say a true statement;”God hates lies. That is all that needs to be said on the subject.”

Even though the next statement is also a true statement, when standing alone, you imply the statement is about The Church of Latter-Day Saintes, making the idea you are leaving not true,”Any institution that fosters lies is not of God.”

Again, it is not what you say, it is how you say it that makes the idea untrue.

You have given another example of a half-truth.

30 posted on 07/02/2008 10:13:46 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222

I wasn’t talking specifically about Mormonism, but if the shoe fits.......


31 posted on 07/02/2008 10:18:34 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Old Mountain man; colorcountry; sevenbak
I suppose you are not worthy?

Wow, here we go again with the worthiness challenges in the forum.

I tried to find the last one where that happened - did it get pulled? Didn't someone else challenge your worthiness in a thread a while back, Colorcountry?

32 posted on 07/02/2008 10:20:21 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: delacoert

That’s why we do NOT have receptions in our Temples.
=+=+=
I guess Mormons really only go to weddings to attend the reception.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Another twisted remark not related to what is really being talked about.

I have seen this kind of answer used by many who, want to confuse, instead of staying on the subject.


33 posted on 07/02/2008 10:20:45 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
I wasn’t talking specifically about Mormonism, but if the shoe fits.......

+++++++++++++++++==

On a thread that started as a Mormon bash from post #1, and you talking about bad things you think we do, then you say you “wasn’t talking specifically about Mormonism”.

Your actions and your words do not look to be matching.

34 posted on 07/02/2008 10:25:35 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222

I think it was quite clear that I was referring to ANY organization that lies (since it was both bolded and underlined) and I was not targeting Mormonism specifically.

You are free to assume anything you wish - it just doesn’t make it true.

Have a nice day, fred.


35 posted on 07/02/2008 10:27:54 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Of course, the couple had engaged in premarital sex and some light drug use, and so the family knows they lied to the Bishop in order to receive the required “Temple Recommend.” But what the heck - appearances were kept! Who cares if a lie was perpetuated?

+++++++++++++++++++++++=

With your history as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, you should know that we all (including ex-members) have a responsibility to correct lies like you describe.

Anyone who knew of the lieing on the Temple Recommend interview had a responsibility of reporting it, or they participated in the lie. They also lied.

“Who cares if a lie was perpetuated?” If you knew ahead of time, you did not care if it was a lie.

36 posted on 07/02/2008 10:34:52 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
I think it was quite clear that I was referring to ANY organization that lies (since it was both bolded and underlined) and I was not targeting Mormonism specifically.

You are free to assume anything you wish - it just doesn’t make it true.

+++++++++++++++++++++

ya, right, on a Mormon Bashing thread.

37 posted on 07/02/2008 10:39:52 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry

I am not surprised. Bless you and have a good day.


38 posted on 07/02/2008 10:39:59 AM PDT by Old Mountain man (Official FR PITA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: sevenbak
Adult males must also have been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Melchizedek Priesthood

"Through the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, Church leaders guide the Church and direct the preaching of the gospel throughout the world. In the ordinances of the Melchizedek Priesthood, "the power of godliness is manifest" (D&C 84:20). This greater priesthood was given to Adam and has been on the earth whenever the Lord has revealed His gospel. It was taken from the earth during the Great Apostasy, but it was restored in 1829, when the Apostles Peter, James, and John conferred it upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery

LDS.org on mormon belief on Melchizedek Priesthood

From sevenbak: Currently three different types of recommends are given: (1) for members to receive their own Endowment, to be sealed to a spouse, or to be married in the temple for time only; (2) for members who have received their Endowment to participate in all temple ordinances for the dead (see Salvation for the Dead); and (3) for unendowed members to (a) be baptized on behalf of the dead, (b) be sealed to their parents, or (c) witness sealings of their living brothers and sisters to their parents. The same standards of worthiness apply for all recommends.

FROM: The Redemption of the Dead and the Testimony of Jesus

lds.org

"The doctrine that the living can provide baptism and other essential ordinances to the dead, vicariously, was revealed anew to the Prophet Joseph Smith. He learned that the spirits awaiting resurrection are not only offered individual salvation but that they can be bound in heaven as husband and wife and be sealed to their fathers and mothers of all generations past and have sealed to them their children of all generations future. The Lord instructed the Prophet that these sacred rites are appropriately performed only in a house built to His name, a temple.

The principle of vicarious service should not seem strange to any Christian. In the baptism of a living person, the officiator acts, by proxy, in place of the Savior. And is it not the central tenet of our faith that Christ’s sacrifice atones for our sins by vicariously satisfying the demands of justice for us? As President Gordon B. Hinckley has expressed: “I think that vicarious work for the dead more nearly approaches the vicarious sacrifice of the Savior Himself than any other work of which I know. It is given with love, without hope of compensation, or repayment or anything of the kind. What a glorious principle.”

Some have misunderstood and suppose that deceased souls “are being baptised into the Mormon faith without their knowledge” or that “people who once belonged to other faiths can have the Mormon faith retroactively imposed on them.” They assume that we somehow have power to force a soul in matters of faith. Of course, we do not. God gave man his agency from the beginning. “The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,” but only if they accept those ordinances. The Church does not list them on its rolls or count them in its membership."

The MAIN task of the LDS temples...baptism for the dead.

39 posted on 07/02/2008 10:40:12 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tagline on vacation during the grand experiment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222

Ah, so you are giving me not only permission, but charging that I do something in order to expose the lies of Mormonism?

Thank you very much - I will proceed in doing so!


40 posted on 07/02/2008 10:41:31 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: delacoert
We're not worthyyyyyy
41 posted on 07/02/2008 10:43:45 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Ah, so you are giving me not only permission, but charging that I do something in order to expose the lies of Mormonism?

++++++++++++++++++=

Again you mis-state what I said.

I was pointing out how you use this kind of action to mislead and confuse the line of thought.

42 posted on 07/02/2008 10:46:48 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Ah, so you are giving me not only permission, but charging that I do something in order to expose the lies of Mormonism?

ROFL at the mormons insisting it was your DUTY to tattle on a member...is it every mormon's duty to do so?

LDS LEADERS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ENDOWED WITH "DISCERNMENT" WHEN THEY ARE CALLED TO THEIR LEADERSHIP POSTS! Isn't that correct?

If a bishop can't "discern" who is lying to him, why should someone be expected to tattle?

43 posted on 07/02/2008 10:49:28 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Tagline on vacation during the grand experiment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222

How quickly this thread became a focus on me personally. While it is against the Religion Forum rules I think it is highly enlightening for those investigating Mormonism to be able to see this type of thing first hand and so, I certainly hope it stands for all to see.


44 posted on 07/02/2008 10:53:21 AM PDT by colorcountry (To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222
you use this kind of action to mislead and confuse

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

Attributing motives to another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

45 posted on 07/02/2008 11:00:42 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222
With your history as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, you should know that we all (including ex-members) have a responsibility to correct lies like you describe.

The reasoning was straight forward, you just don't like it. Your actions appear to be misled and confused.

46 posted on 07/02/2008 11:02:39 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
The MAIN task of the LDS temples...baptism for the dead.

++++++++++++

Good try at a miss-leading thought.

All of God's children are given the opportunity to have all of the ordinances God has declared we need. (yes, that is an ‘s’ as in plural, as in not just one ordnance)

Not just Baptism's for the dead.

Easy information for anyone who wants to know.

47 posted on 07/02/2008 11:05:03 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: fproy2222
please practice here before you face the anti-Christians.

I make no claim that I am an anti-Christian, so I do not have to engage myself in a mainstreaming strategy.

48 posted on 07/02/2008 11:15:07 AM PDT by delacoert
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
You do understand that Paul and the other apostles went to the temple often after the Death and Resurrection of Christ? The veil of the temple was rent, not as an abandonment of the temple, but as a fulfillment of the Law of Moses.


If Temples were supposed to be done away with after the death of Christ, why does Isaiah prophesy of of the Lords House being built in the last days?

Isaiah 2:2-3

2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us ago up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the flaw, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

And it was important enough for the Lord to have the Prophet Micah also testify of it.

Micah 4:1-2
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the claw shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Now one could reasonably argue that it's only referencing the Temple to be built in Jerusalem. One could also reasonably argue that the Law would go froth from Zion AND the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. But either way, there is no repudiation of temples in the last days. The Lord himself has had his ancient servants prophesy of his holy house.

49 posted on 07/02/2008 11:23:12 AM PDT by sevenbak (Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on. - Job 21:3)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Religion Moderator; colorcountry
I work hard at trying to not make this personal, but I need to correct what I see and know to be mis-leading.

I try very hard to use third person, but because of the number of miss-leading remarks, I sometimes forget.

I should have used ‘this kind of action is used by many to confuse and miss-lead’ instead of “you use this kind of action to mislead and confuse”.

I will work at not making it personal by using first person.

fred

50 posted on 07/02/2008 11:27:16 AM PDT by fproy2222 (Jesus is the Christ.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-157 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson