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A Sexual Revolution (One woman's journey from pro-choice atheist to pro-life Catholic)
America Magazine ^ | July 7, 2008 | Jennifer Fulwiler

Posted on 07/03/2008 6:19:51 AM PDT by NYer

Back in my pro-choice days, I read that in certain ancient societies it was common for parents to abandon unwanted newborns, leaving them to die of exposure. I found these stories to be as perplexing as they were horrifying. How could this happen? I could never understand how entire cultures could buy into something so obviously terrible, how something that modern society understands to be an unthinkable evil could be widely accepted among large groups of people.

Because of my deep distress at hearing of such crimes against humanity, I found it irritating when pro-lifers would refer to abortion as “killing babies.” Obviously, nobody was in favor of killing babies, and to imply that those of us who were pro-choice would advocate as much was an insult to the babies throughout history who actually were killed by their “insane” societies. We were not in favor of killing anything. We simply felt that a woman had a right to stop the growth process of a fetus if she faced a crisis pregnancy. It was unfortunate, but that was the sacrifice that had to be made to prevent women from becoming victims of unwanted pregnancies.

At that time I was an atheist and had little exposure to religious social circles. As I began to search for God and open my mind to Christianity, however, I could not help but be exposed to pro-life thought more often, and I was put on the defensive about my views. One night I was discussing the topic with my husband, who was re-examining his own pro-choice stance. He made a passing remark that startled me into reconsidering this issue: “It just occurred to me that being pro-life is being pro-other-people’s-life,” he quipped. “Everyone is pro-their-own-life.”

Growing Discomfort

His remark made me realize that my pro-choice viewpoints had put me in the position of deciding whose lives were worth living, and even who was human. Along with doctors, the government and other abortion advocates, I decided where to draw this crucial line. When I would come across Catholic Web sites or books that asserted “Life begins at conception,” I would scoff, as was my habit, yet I found myself increasingly uncomfortable with my defense. I realized that my criteria for determining when human life begins were distressingly vague. I was putting the burden of proof on the fetuses to demonstrate to me that they were human, and I was a tough judge. I found myself looking the other way when I heard about things like the 3-D ultrasounds that showed fetuses touching their faces, smiling and opening their eyes at ages at which I still considered abortion acceptable. As modern technology revealed more and more evidence that fetuses were humans too, I would simply move the bar for what I considered human.

At some point I started to feel I was more determined to remain pro-choice than to analyze honestly who was and was not human. I started to see this phenomenon in others in the pro-choice community as well. As I researched issues like partial-birth abortion, I frequently became stunned to the point of feeling physically ill upon witnessing the level of evil that normal people can support. I could hardly believe my eyes when I read of reasonable, educated professionals calmly justifying infanticide by calling the victims fetuses instead of babies. It was then that I took a mental step back from the entire pro-choice movement. If this is what it meant to be pro-choice, I was not pro-choice.

Yet I still could not quite label myself pro-life.

I recognized that I too had probably told myself lies in order to maintain my support for abortion. Yet there was some tremendous pressure that kept me from objectively looking at the issue. Something deep within me screamed that not to allow women to have abortions, at least in the first trimester, would be unfair in the direst sense of the word. Even as I became religious, I mentally pushed aside thoughts that all humans might have God-given eternal souls worthy of dignity and respect. It became too tricky to figure out when we receive those souls, the most obvious answer being “at conception,” as opposed to some arbitrary point during gestation. It was not until I re-evaluated the societal views of sex that had permeated the consciousness of my peer group that I was able to release that internal pressure I felt and take an unflinching look at abortion.

Sex and Creating Life

Growing up in secular middle-class America, I understood sex as something disconnected from the idea of creating life. During my entire childhood I did not know anyone who had a baby sibling; and to the extent that neighborhood parents ever talked about pregnancy, it was to say they were glad they were “done.” In high school sex education class, we learned not that sex creates babies, but that unprotected sex creates babies. Even recently, before our marriage was blessed in the Catholic Church, my husband and I took a course about building good marriages. It was a video series by a nondenominational Christian group, and the segment called “Good Sex” did not mention children once. In all the talk about bonding and back rubs and intimacy and staying in shape, the closest the videos came to connecting sex to the creation of life was a brief note that couples should discuss the topic of contraception.

All my life, the message I had heard loud and clear was that sex was for pleasure and bonding, that its potential for creating life was purely tangential, almost to the point of being forgotten. This mind-set became the foundation of my views on abortion. Because I saw sex as being by default closed to the possibility of life, I thought of unplanned pregnancies as akin to being struck by lightning while walking down the street—something totally unpredictable and undeserved that happened to people living normal lives.

My pro-choice views (and I imagine those of many others) were motivated by loving concern: I just did not want women to have to suffer, to have to devalue themselves by dealing with unwanted pregnancies. Since it was an inherent part of my worldview that everyone except people with “hang-ups” eventually has sex, and that sex is, under normal circumstances, only about the relationship between the two people involved, I was lured into one of the oldest, biggest, most tempting lies in human history: the enemy is not human. Babies had become the enemy because of their tendency to pop up and ruin everything; and just as societies are tempted to dehumanize their fellow human beings on the other side of the line in wartime, so had I, and we as a society, dehumanized what we saw as the enemy of sex.

As I was reading up on the Catholic Church’s understanding of sex, marriage and contraception, everything changed. I had always assumed that Catholic teachings against birth control were outdated notions, even a thinly disguised attempt to oppress the faithful. What I found, however, was that these teachings expressed a fundamentally different understanding of sex. And once I discovered this, I never saw the world the same way again.

Burdens or Blessings?

The way I had always seen it, the generally accepted view was that babies were burdens, except for a few times in life when everything might be perfect enough for a couple to see new life as a good thing. The Catholic view, I discovered, is that babies are blessings and that while it is fine to attempt to avoid pregnancy for serious reasons, if we go so far as to adopt a “contraceptive mentality”—feeling entitled to the pleasure of sex while loathing (and perhaps trying to forget all about) its life-giving properties—we not only fail to respect this most sacred of acts, but we begin to see new life as the enemy.

I came to see that our culture’s widespread use and acceptance of contraception meant that the “contraceptive mentality” toward sex was now the default attitude. As a society, we had come to take it for granted that we are entitled to the pleasurable and bonding aspects of sex even when we are opposed to the new life it might produce. The option of abstaining from the act that creates babies if we see children as a burden had been removed from our cultural lexicon. Even if it would be a huge crisis to become pregnant, we had a right to have sex anyway. If this were true—if it were morally acceptable for people to have sex even when they believed that a new baby could ruin their lives—then abortion, as I saw things, had to be O.K.

Ideally I would have taken an objective look at when human life begins and based my views on that alone, but the lie was just too tempting. I did not want to hear too much about heartbeats or souls or brain activity. Terminating pregnancies simply had to be acceptable, because carrying a baby to term and becoming a parent is a huge deal, and society had made it very clear that sex was not a huge deal. As long as I accepted the premise that engaging in sex with a contraceptive mentality was morally acceptable, I could not bring myself to consider that abortion might not be acceptable. It seemed inhumane to make women deal with life-altering consequences for an act that was not supposed to have life-altering consequences.

Given my background, the Catholic idea that we are always to treat the sexual act with awe and respect, so much so that we should simply abstain if we are opposed to its life-giving potential, was a revolutionary message. Being able to consider honestly when life begins, to open my heart and mind to the wonder and dignity of even the tiniest of my fellow human beings, was not fully possible for me until I understood the nature of the act that creates these little lives in the first place.

All of these thoughts had been percolating in my brain for a while, and I found myself increasingly in agreement with pro-life positions. Then one night I became officially, unapologetically pro-life. I was reading yet another account of the Greek societies in which newborn babies were abandoned to die, wondering how normal people could do something like that, and I felt a chill rush through me as I thought: I know how they did it.

I realized in that moment that perfectly good, well-meaning people—people like me—can support gravely evil things because of the power of lies. From my own experience, I knew how the Greeks, the Romans and people in every other society could put themselves into a mental state where they could leave a newborn child to die. The very real pressures of life—“we can’t afford another baby,” “we can’t have any more girls,” “he wouldn’t have had a good life”—left them susceptible to the temptation to dehumanize other human beings. Though the circumstances were different, the same process had happened with me, with the pro-choice movement and with anyone else who has ever been tempted to dehumanize inconvenient people.

I suspect that as those Greek parents handed over their infants for someone to take away, they remarked on how very unlike their other children these little creatures were: they couldn’t talk, the couldn’t sit up, and surely those little yawns and smiles were just involuntary reactions. I bet they referred to these babies with different words than they used to refer to the children they kept. Maybe they called them something like “fetuses.”


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: abortion; moralabsolutes; prochoice; prolife
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Jennifer Fulwiler is a Web developer who lives in Austin, Tex., with her husband and three children. She converted to Catholicism from atheism in 2007 and writes about her conversion at http://www.conversiondiary.com/.
1 posted on 07/03/2008 6:19:52 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
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2 posted on 07/03/2008 6:20:40 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

It’s amazing how you read more stories about the other side coming over to our side than you do the other way around.


3 posted on 07/03/2008 6:24:57 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: NYer

Great analysis. Thanks.


4 posted on 07/03/2008 6:26:49 AM PDT by Mercat (For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail.)
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To: NYer

Thanks for posting such a lucid article!

Excellent!


5 posted on 07/03/2008 6:32:25 AM PDT by BwanaNdege
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To: NYer

As Ronald Reagan observed, isn’t it interesting that everyone who is pro-abortion has already been born?


6 posted on 07/03/2008 6:40:51 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: murron
It’s amazing how you read more stories about the other side coming over to our side than you do the other way around.

This is simply because there is only one side, pro-life. The alternative is not a side. It is the denial of life.

As with all atheist teachings the so-called "liberal" of "enlightened" view is merely a denial of the truth. Dialectical materialism is nothing more than a device for destroying the essential nature of truth, specifically, that it is true.

Once a person grasps the fact that truth is an absolute it becomes intellectually impossible to return to a world view that denies truth.

Every liberal will admit that they do not believe in the primacy of truth. Theirs is a solipsist's world view intended to justify their own desires and interests. Their viewpoint may be pitied but it must never be given legitimacy. They are enslaved by deception. They do not know the truth that will set them free.

7 posted on 07/03/2008 6:42:08 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (here come I, gravitas in tow.)
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To: NYer

During my entire childhood I did not know anyone who had a baby sibling; and to the extent that neighborhood parents ever talked about pregnancy, it was to say they were glad they were “done.””

I am not Roman Catholic, but there is no question whatsoever that the contraceptive mentality is one and the same with the abortion mentality. And I have to give a strong thank you to those Roman Catholics who have pointed this out for decades now. Slowly but surely, many pro-life Protestants are coming to this same realization.


8 posted on 07/03/2008 6:43:58 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: Amos the Prophet

great, succinct post


9 posted on 07/03/2008 6:45:22 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: NYer

Wow, that’s an outstanding artice ... and in “America,” of all places!


10 posted on 07/03/2008 6:45:22 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Tax-chick's House of Herpets. Watch your extremities - we're hungry!)
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To: NYer; 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ..
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11 posted on 07/03/2008 6:46:34 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: NYer

Thank you so very much for posting this story. God bless this woman!


12 posted on 07/03/2008 6:46:45 AM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: murron
It’s amazing how you read more stories about the other side coming over to our side than you do the other way around.

Not amazing at all...Catholic turned Protestant sites are banned...

It appears as the 'former' Catholics usually tell why they left your church and it is considered Catholic 'hate' speech...

13 posted on 07/03/2008 7:01:56 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: ConservativeDude
And I have to give a strong thank you to those Roman Catholics who have pointed this out for decades now.

Following Vatican Council II, Pope Paul VI issued his encyclical Humanae Vitae. All Christian Churches had embraced artificial contraception and Catholics around the world fully expected that the pope would now follow suit. Some priests, in anticipation of this, had already begun the 'wink' and 'nod' in the confessionals, hoping to reassure their congregation that more than likely, it would no longer be a sin to practice artificial birth control. You can imagine the surprise, and even some tantrums, from the pews.

Given what we have witnessed of the slippery slope down which artificial birth control has taken us as a society, the encyclical of Paul VI, written in 1968, is actually prophetic.

“Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (18)—in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general.”

HUMANAE VITAE


14 posted on 07/03/2008 7:03:26 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Amos the Prophet

Once a person grasps the fact that truth is an absolute it becomes intellectually impossible to return to a world view that denies truth.


More than that, denial of the truth creates mental/intellectual states that philosophize and begets systems like socialism, and communism.


15 posted on 07/03/2008 7:04:31 AM PDT by bioqubit
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To: murron

Sorry about that...I thought you were referring to religion wise...However, it would seem that after a woman has a baby or two, that it would extremely tough to then have an abortion...


16 posted on 07/03/2008 7:05:19 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: NYer

Hers logic is the exact same path I followed in my own conversion in thinking on the subject.

My moment was when my wife and I had our first child. I realized that even for the poorest, most down-trodden, disadvantaged person on earth - having a child is not be a burden, the child is a blessing and is one of the way God gives us hope for the future. I am only sorry it took me so long to realize it.


17 posted on 07/03/2008 7:06:34 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: Iscool
...Catholic turned Protestant sites are banned...

Because of the vicious character of their content.

There's something instructive about that.

18 posted on 07/03/2008 7:06:51 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Iscool

You missed the point of the post.

“Our side” is the PROLIFE side, not necessarily the Catholic side.

“The other side” is the pro-abort side.


19 posted on 07/03/2008 7:07:16 AM PDT by clockwise
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To: Iscool

I wasn’t referring to one person switching from one religion to another. I was referring to a pro-abortion, God denier of any religion, or most importantly, no religion, coming to God and His Commandments.


20 posted on 07/03/2008 7:07:42 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: Amos the Prophet

You think that more people would stop and think, “Hey, maybe the other side is on to something! They look happy, they seem happy. I’d like to try that out and see what I’m missing.”


21 posted on 07/03/2008 7:11:03 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: NYer

I laud Jennifer conversion journey and the decisions she made along the way.

May God continue to bless her and her family.


22 posted on 07/03/2008 7:11:52 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer; antonius
And for further contemplation:


23 posted on 07/03/2008 7:14:35 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer

You are so gonna get it, missy!

BTW, great article!


24 posted on 07/03/2008 7:16:04 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: murron
It’s amazing how you read more stories about the other side coming over to our side than you do the other way around.

The only people who ever go that direction are politicians looking for votes. Once you realize that a fetus IS SO a REAL BABY, you can't un-know that. I made that trip right after Columbine, when I realized that those nutty pro-lifers were right - abortion is cheapening the value of all life in our society.

25 posted on 07/03/2008 7:16:58 AM PDT by nina0113 (If fences don't work, why does the White House have one?)
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To: Iscool
She was a pro-choice/pro-abortion atheist. READ THE ARTICLE instead of the ususal.
26 posted on 07/03/2008 7:29:16 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: NYer

Wow, thanks for posting. That was a bit enlightening for me, actually.


27 posted on 07/03/2008 7:42:29 AM PDT by lymelady (I have too much respect for women to ever be a feminazi.)
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To: murron

When you do hear pro-life to pro-choice stories, it’s usually young women who just got to college and say, “I was raised in a backwards religious family and bought into it until I came to this liberal college.” It’s pretty boring, and doesn’t have nearly as much emotion or thought behind it.


28 posted on 07/03/2008 7:42:30 AM PDT by lymelady (I have too much respect for women to ever be a feminazi.)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: lymelady

I guarantee you, these women know better. They haven’t changed their views. They have abortions despite this anyway. Many live to regret their decisions in what is known as Post-Abortion Stress Syndrome. They’ll try to justify their actions by saying that they were young and didn’t know any better. But they are living for today and the guilt sets in big time later on, especially if they have children in the future.


30 posted on 07/03/2008 8:07:16 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: NYer

Someone needs to use Hussein’s words against him. Yesterday he made a speech and said that fatherhood begins at conception. Someone needs to ask him how this can be since he says it is okay to destroy life after conception. Cannot have it both ways.


31 posted on 07/03/2008 8:33:46 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Resolute Conservative

The media lets him and the worshippers don’t really pay attention anyway.


32 posted on 07/03/2008 8:44:39 AM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: Iscool
Turn off your "Macro" and disable the software which automatically spams threads which contain the word "Catholic".

We're discussing life issues here.

This just might be something on which we actually agree.

33 posted on 07/03/2008 9:07:03 AM PDT by marshmallow (An infallible Bible is useless without an infallible interpreter)
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To: NYer

A truly remarkable story, and a more capable defense of Pro-Life positions than I have heard from many lifelong believers.

>> Jennifer Fulwiler is a Web developer who lives in Austin, Tex., with her husband and three children.

Made all the more remarkable that she came to this realization in Texas’s version of San Francisco ... the lone bastion of complete lunacy in the Great State of Texas.

H


34 posted on 07/03/2008 9:08:30 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Jack Bauer for President '08 -- All the world's terrorists hate him. Sounds like a fair fight.)
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To: murron

>> It’s amazing how you read more stories about the other side coming over to our side than you do the other way around.

Good observation — but not really that amazing when you think about it. It is extremely unlikely that a believer is going to have an epiphany that the unborn actually aren’t as human as they originally thought.

It is far more likely that, after some deep soul searching, an abortion advocate would have a “light-bulb moment” about the humanity of the unborn and the true brutality of abortion.

The history of humans deciding whom is, and is not, human is long and sad — chattel slavery, the Holocaust, abortion and Jihad have all emerged from groups of people determining that other people aren’t fully human and aren’t deserving of the inherent rights bestowed on humanity.

H


35 posted on 07/03/2008 9:13:43 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Jack Bauer for President '08 -- All the world's terrorists hate him. Sounds like a fair fight.)
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To: murron

That’s because women who transition from pro life to pro abortion aren’t particularly proud of their transformation,

I know a couple of self described pro life women who panicked with an unexpected pregnancy and ended the pregnancies, one was even enabled in the decision making process by her ‘fiercely’ pro life mother.

So there you go. When someone’s back is to the wall, there’s no telling what they might do.


36 posted on 07/03/2008 9:19:04 AM PDT by Sgt Joe Friday 714
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To: NYer

+1


37 posted on 07/03/2008 9:24:52 AM PDT by Christian4Bush ("In Israel, the President hit the nail on the head. The nails are complaining loudly." - John Bolton)
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To: Hemorrhage

You’re talking common sense here. When we are talking about the other side, common sense doesn’t necessarily enter into the picture.


38 posted on 07/03/2008 9:33:47 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: murron

>> You’re talking common sense here. When we are talking about the other side, common sense doesn’t necessarily enter into the picture.

True enough, particularly when we’re talking about feminist ideologues. But, I tend to have more faith in Americans than that. Logic doesn’t affect ideologues, but it does affect red-blooded Americans who simply “logically” disagree with us, like the author of the article above. Americans can be reached with logical arguments — even on abortion.

As for radical feminist ideologues — those that Limbaugh calls “feminazis” — those to whom abortion is not only acceptable, but an inherent good ... they cannot be reached. They must simply be used as examples of the truly callous nature of the pro-abortion movement.

They can also be a source of true amusement — read the blogs at “feministing.com” or “iblamethepatriarchy.com” sometime. Truly hilarious. They are complete wackos, so blinded by arguments of the “patriarchy” and narcissistically focused on their own miserable lives that they cannot even see how minuscule a minority they truly are. My reactions tend to range from amusement to pity when reading that nonsense — as they are truly miserable women, living in constant paranoid fear of the “patriarchy”. I cannot seem to manage actual anger at such an inconsequentially small ideology.

H


39 posted on 07/03/2008 10:05:06 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Jack Bauer for President '08 -- All the world's terrorists hate him. Sounds like a fair fight.)
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To: marshmallow

And there it is again! Just yesterday something like this started about the Padra Pio post. Why do some people get so much joy in battling all the time? We should be building up the Army of God with the holy spirit as our weapon. There will always be differences between us,at least until Jesus comes back. But we have real evil in this world,such as abortion,and once again someone finds a way to start battling one another.We must celebrate that those who chose death,now choose life. Jesus gave us eternal life from the womb,let us celebrate the triumph of good over evil! Blessed is the fruit of thy womb,Jesus.


40 posted on 07/03/2008 10:28:53 AM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: red irish; marshmallow
Why do some people get so much joy in battling all the time?

Overexposure to television news talk shows? ;-)

Over the years, I have see battles and wars break out in the Religion Forum. Some truly fascinating 'characters' were issued warnings and even given time out before being ejected. It's been faily quiet since the Mod set down some new rules. But there will always be that one person or group that enjoys stirring up the pot just to see how the Catholics will react. The best reaction is to remember the words of Jesus: "Love your enemy. Do good to those who hurt you. Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Failing that, ignore them. But do not drop out of the forum! Promise me that.

41 posted on 07/03/2008 12:01:16 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Hemorrhage

I wish I had as much faith in our fellow Americans as you do. If Americans could be reached with logical arguments on abortions, there wouldn’t still be millions being performed each year. Either people are too easily persuaded by the empty arguments of the other side, or they just don’t care.


42 posted on 07/03/2008 12:28:46 PM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: murron

>> If Americans could be reached with logical arguments on abortions, there wouldn’t still be millions being performed each year. Either people are too easily persuaded by the empty arguments of the other side, or they just don’t care.

We’ve come a long way since Roe v. Wade. Radical feminism was big in the 60’s and 70’s ... today, its a relic (as are its proponents, both figuratively and literally). Support for abortion-as-birth-control is relegated to the fringe. Most abortion supporters are simply “rape, incest, life of the mother” supporters — which is a SMALL percentage of abortions.

The ONLY reason abortion-on-demand is still available is because we haven’t quite captured a majority on the Court. Left to democratic devices (i.e. if the state legislatures passed the laws, rather than the Supreme Court), abortion would be illegal throughout most of the country with the exceptions of rape, incest and life of the mother exemptions.

I’d say that’s a victory, and it should inspire confidence in the moral compass of the American public. One more vote on the Court, and the fight goes back to the State Legislators, where it should be — and where we’ll win easily across most of the country.

H


43 posted on 07/03/2008 12:47:39 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Jack Bauer for President '08 -- All the world's terrorists hate him. Sounds like a fair fight.)
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To: Hemorrhage

Well, that sort of shoots down the argument that we will only stop abortion when we change people’s hearts and minds. There are more abortions now than there was when Roe v Wade was first decided. And why don’t we have more Pro-life justices on the court? Because voters didn’t care when they elected Bill Clinton in 92 and again in 96. Perhaps instead of a Breyer and Ginsburg, we could have had 2 more conservative justices. But it “was the economy, stupid” and people voted with their pocketbooks and could have cared less about the killing of preborn babies.


44 posted on 07/03/2008 1:00:01 PM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: murron

>> Well, that sort of shoots down the argument that we will only stop abortion when we change people’s hearts and minds.

Hearts and minds are simply the first step.

>> There are more abortions now than there was when Roe v Wade was first decided.

There are also far more people in the country than there were in 1973. And, most abortionists are repeat offenders.

>> And why don’t we have more Pro-life justices on the court?

Several reasons. Some caused by voters, many completely out of voter control.

(1) A liberal President (Clinton nominated Ginsberg and Breyer);
(2) a couple of lousy nominations (Souter was a Bush nominee, Kennedy a Reagan nominee);
(3) one relic that just won’t leave (Stevens was nominated by Ford);

and — most importantly ...

(4) the ridiculous non-confirmation of Robert Bork. Bork, a rock-solid conservative, and legal genius, was replaced by Anthony Kennedy.

>> But it “was the economy, stupid” and people voted with their pocketbooks and could have cared less about the killing of preborn babies.

Few people vote based on a single issue. People also elected Ronald Reagan and George Bush consecutively — and watched Robert Bork get beat up and thrown aside, and Kennedy nominated in his place, and then saw Souter nominated by Bush. The people did their job — the nominees were just lousy, or thrown out by a partisan Senate.

H


45 posted on 07/03/2008 1:21:39 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor (Jack Bauer for President '08 -- All the world's terrorists hate him. Sounds like a fair fight.)
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To: murron

Americans can be reached with logic. This story proves it. Here was this woman who was entrenched in the “compassionate” pro-choice viewpoint for years who was reached by logic. It’s just a matter at chipping away at the lies.

If a fetus truly was not a person, not a human being, not a precious child, what is the problem with abortion? If it really was just a growth, there should be no moral dilema. People have been taught this lie, indoctrinated. They teach it in the schools. They teach it in the streets. On television, on the internet, they spread this lie.

It is fighting through indoctrination of lies and deceit that are easy enough to believe if you get caught up in the emotional appeals. A first trimester fetus doesn’t look particularly human, especially in the first few weeks. It isn’t really tangible to most people, who haven’t seen ultrasounds, abortions, or pre-natal surgery. But it’s still a lie.

But just like the woman who wrote that article, they can be reached. It just takes time and patience.


46 posted on 07/03/2008 2:29:38 PM PDT by lymelady (I have too much respect for women to ever be a feminazi.)
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To: NYer

Right on. And Humanae Vitae was absolutely the beginning of the conversation, from our perspective, that is, the truly pro life perspective.


47 posted on 07/03/2008 3:04:53 PM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: NYer
When a fetus is a patient
48 posted on 07/03/2008 3:42:30 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: Iscool
I think that the article is more from pro-choice to pro-life than a religious change, although that is also included.
Just my observation.
49 posted on 07/03/2008 6:39:48 PM PDT by mckenzie7 (Lib NO MORE!)
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To: Hemorrhage

Changing hearts and minds is not going to do it. If that was the case, then there would be no such thing as Partial Birth abortion, which was not around when Roe was first decided. There is no argument at that point that it is a baby that is being killed. When abortion became the law of the land, there was no huge demand for it. In fact, polls at the time showed that a large majority of people didn’t agree with Roe and wanted it overturned. Those poll numbers have steadily dropped over the years. As far as Supreme Court justices, why do we have Gingsburg and Breyer? Because abortion is not a high priority with voters, and they voted for Bill Clinton for 2 terms.

BTW, Kennedy voted with the conservatives on the bench when Webster was decided in 1989. It was Sandra Day O’Connor that screwed that one up. I know she was a Reagan appointee, but we were paying as much attention to court appointments at the time like we do today, or we would have ended up with Harriet Myers. This is where the National Right to Life should have done their job, and should have been monitoring who was being appointed to the bench and seen to it that Reagan nominate someone more conservative, like he did with Scalia and Bork. We got Scalia because the Senate was under Republican control at the time, and we could have had another Scalia or Bork instead of O’Connor as well.

Kennedy also voted with the majority regarding a recent decision, I believe it was last year, ruling against Partial Birth abortion. So far, I think he has voted with the conservative justices on abortion-related issues.


50 posted on 07/03/2008 7:51:33 PM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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