Posted on 07/03/2008 7:42:55 PM PDT by Coleus
A Watertown pastor suspected tonight of having sexual contact with a child. KSFY obtained these court documents which lays out the case against Dennis Hayes. In documents released by Watertown Police, we're told the suspected contact happened last Friday when Hayes took a juvenile boy he had been mentoring from the "Southwest Youth Services Center" in Magnolia, Minnesota to a library in Luverne, Minnesota.
The boy claims during the drive to Luverne, Hayes held his hand and told him he loved him. While at the Luverne library, he claims Hayes rubbed his back outside his shirt. During the drive back to Magnolia, he says hayes touched and rubbed his hand again.
And upon arriving in Magnolia, he claims Hayes slid his hand down into his pants and rubbed his buttocks. The boy told authorities this has been going on for a year. Hayes has told police he has patted and rubbed the boy in the past to calm him down, but then admitted he had placed his hand in the boys pants and touched his buttocks.
Hayes is a pastor at St. Martin's Evangelical Lutheran Church in Watertown he is now charged with three counts of sexual contact with a minor: In addition, Hayes was arrested today and charged with possession of child porn. He's free on his own recognizance tonight. I called Dennis Hayes house tonight: I wanted to ask him about these charges made against him. A female answered the phone and told me he could not talk about it.
one good thing about your posts is that it reminds me to click news/activism so that I can avoid them. So, thanks for posting to religion or wherever these things end up.
I had a dream/vision years ago that God was going to judge America. And He was going to start with the leaders in His Church. God is still patient and gracious, and we are continually being warned.
Thanks for the kindness of your pletherea of exhortations about Protty sex crimes. It’s encouraging to see that God really is beginning HIS housecleansing with the Christians as He said He woudl in His Word.
I do suspect He will get to other religious clubs in due course.
Well said.
Thanks for your kind words.
in my experience, it’s very tricky and not always successful to avoid contamination by any persistent even merely ‘fascination’ with such a problem . . . even in ‘others’ . . . even in one’s ‘enemies.’
So, we might do well to pray for folks who might unwittingly have developed such a fascination with pointing out Prottys’ sins in such regard that the enemy begins to seduce their interests, fascinations, judgments in dreadfully destructive ways—usually ways that are difficult to detect until one is well down the slippery slope. Haughty critical judgments tend to function that way routinely but particularly in the sexual realm. I know from hard dreadful personal experience.
Amen Quix.
Satan will attack Christ’s church in any manner possible. We should be thankful that the evil one’s minions are being purged.
Did you forget the [sarcasm] tag?
[HUMOR ALERT. FOR THE HUMORLESS—SCROLL ON BY—this ain’t for you]
It’s rumored to be a new world council of churches global government, global one world religion committee generated dogma.
Retroactive sinless lives and conceptions for all—errrr all of a particular clique, or club, that is. I’m not sure what the initiation fees and rites are, however.
I also haven’t figured out what the difference is between the standard and deluxe models.
Maybe I should join up. Never felt sinless before—except as covered by The Blood.
I had a friend once who wanted to invent a new product . . . perpetual virginity. He was convinced he’d become very wealthy. Trouble is, he never got it off the ground . . . off the operating table or off the . . . well . . . or something.
“Did you forget the [sarcasm] tag?”
No, as all these threads are reminding us, Protestants are the only people who sin. When we run out of these sexual sins (if we ever do) them maybe we can turn to Protestants who lie or maybe cheat on their taxes. Maybe even the big ones like tearing off the warning labels on pillows and mattresses or not separating the bottles and cans from the garbage.
We may need a whole new forum just for Protestant sin since they obviously are the only ones who do!
OBVIOUSLY.
I mean . . . 100% of the ‘others’ are 100% honest, accurate, truthful, 100% Biblical, anointed, full of the milk of human kindness by the gallons in every vein . . .
And OBVIOUSLY so.
This stuff has been hidden in the dark for too long.
” Haughty critical judgments tend to function that way routinely but particularly in the sexual realm. I know from hard dreadful personal experience.”
Is posting facts the same thing as making “haughty critical judgments”?
And—do you mean that a fascination with the sexual sins of others is contagious? What does “hard, dreadful personal experience” mean?
Thank you, Coleus, for reminding the protestants every day that their hubris (expressed so eloquently by their crowd over the Catholic scandals) has come back to bite them.
So far, only one of them has expressed gratitude that God is purging their ranks. The rest are still busy making slams, excuses, and denials.
Did you notice that not one of the protestant denial crowd has expressed any concern over the fate of the hundred of victims?
“Thank you, Coleus, for reminding the protestants every day that their hubris (expressed so eloquently by their crowd over the Catholic scandals) has come back to bite them.”
Good point, fight hubris with hubris, that’s the ticket!
If you can find any post of mine anywhere, where I defended any child molester of any religion whatsoever, please produce it here.
More than once, I posted that if my children had ever beem molested by any church figure, there would be no question of a settlement in the millions, I would be in prison for deliberate, premeditated murder. My contention is that those who settled for millions wanted money in exchange for their children’s (or their own) innocence. Protestant churches are poor, have no central authority to sue, thus short prison sentences is the best that can be done, if even that.
Don't bet on it. It's a typical reaction to point your finger at someone else and say "they did it to" to try and mitigate the damage from your own sin.
As far as the pastor goes if the claims hold up I hope he goes to prison and gets what he deserves. One thing I have seen in Baptist churches is when something like this is claimed the authorities are brought in and the perpetrators are prosecuted. I know in this case it was a Lutheran church and I'm not as well versed on their organizational structure. I don't believe they just transfer these guys around.
God is quite serious in Scirpture about beginning his judgment and cleansing with The House of God.
IF a group remains unscathed, it’s much more serious—it means He doesn’t consider them part of The House of God to begin with.
We are all sinners saved by Grace or merely unrepentant sinners. The consequences are quite different for each category.
“Protestant churches are poor, have no central authority to sue.”
That sounds like the early church model, but what does it have to do with the constant reminder that Protestants sin? The world knows that as do other Protestants I imagine, and they are just as ashamed and horrified as Catholics are of the sins of other Catholics.
How does any of this advance the Kingdom? It is like kids yelling “but you did it first”.
Please ask that of the protestants first. When the literally hundreds of articles condemning the Catholic priests were being posted, many of them were happy to blame anything except tha fact that all humans sin, even they.
I’d like to see one protestant apologize for THEIR hubris. Which continues.
Oh, I forgot to note . . .
as I posted that, I wondered which RC would be eagerly first in line with such an attitude and stance.
Sorry, but I’m fresh out of door prizes.
In Protestant churches all charges are made public and the pastor is removed from the pulpit.
In the RCC accusations are shrouded in distrust of the accuser and denial of the transgressions while the priest is thoroughly protected, often being permitted to continue his sexual assault for decades in other parishes under the guise of the cloth.
Watch the recent, AA-winning documentary now on DVD, "Deliver Us From Evil."
Good points.
Won’t be watching such stuff.
Just reading the threat titles is enough to . . . beome ill over.
You brought it up.
If you had actually read the threads and original articles, you would know that isn't true. And no, I am not going to look them up for you. The instances are fully discoverable for anyone searching for actual truth about protestant clergy sex abusers, but will no doubt remain a mystery to those in denial.
Surely God will judge these so-called “ministers” more harshly than other sinners. This also goes for so-called “ministers” that preach that abortion and homosexuality is ok.
Excellent. Were it otherwise, there would be good reason to doubt the humanity of the reader.
Yes, like the PCUSA.
I’m certain that such a doubt
would be an incredibly
new
phenomena—totally uncommon for any of the caustic folks on FR.
However, it must be proven he is guilty. False accusations are common.
Nothing looks much
feebler
than failed wit.
“False accusations are common.”
I have never seen a protestant say that about any of the accused Catholic priests, even when the accusations were proven to be false.
Any protestant is free to show me that I err, with a link.
“I’d like to see one protestant apologize for THEIR hubris.”
And then what?
First, let’s just see it. We can deal with the loud hosannas from the angelic choir later, should such an extremely unlikely event occur.
“Failed wit” is obviously like most things hereon
in the eye of the beholder . . . and probably at least sometimes, in the heart of the beholder.
Over the years, I’ve seen Prottys apologize hereon many, many times.
I may have apologized more than any though I may have had more need to! LOL.
I’ve rarely seen others apologize . . . and some groups, extremely rarely to virtually never . . . and some individuals . . .
For their hubris over the clergy sex abuse scandals? Never.
I may have apologized more than any though I may have had more need to! LOL.
Not for hubris over the clergy sex abuse scandals. Never.
Changing the subject does not make your point.
You are being too defensive. My statement was very broad and encompasses all accusations. It did not even necessarily have anything to do with religion. False accusations are common. Period. No one should jump to conclusions.
I do not have a problem saying that some of the accusations made about priests were false. I am not sure of the percentage, but my general guess, from just obvserving false accusations in general would be in the 20 - 30% range, which is probably on the high side.
On the other hand I also have no problem in exposing the sinful and unbiblical way in which the whoe pediophile priest scandal was covered up. Even worse is the the high level of authority and the length of time it went on until it was exposed and something had to be done.
I have had no problem saying on FR that all sin and fall short of the glory of God, because that is the nature of man, especially those with unconverted hearts whether they be secular or whether they be wearing an outside visible "cloak" of religios garb of Protestant (I include Baptists in the group for this discussion) or of RCC in confession. And I will continue to say that. BUT...how widespread it was and the HOW it was handled, or rather NOT handled is what is most shameful and unChristlike and extremely hurtful to all those who adore and revere our Lord Jesus Christ.
You can use your word of the day, hubris, concerning me, I really don't care because the facts speak for themselves. They just do. What I have seen from when discussions of it have come up in person when among RC's is how quick they are to sweep the issus in the corner by talking about the relatively small percentages of false accusations. It really is quite sad, because it is how they ignore sin. Whether in person, or on FR, it is still sad. Sadder still is that the RCC has no way within its complicated framework to admit that these horrid men are vile sinners who prey on children, which is probably why it was all covered up to begin with. Contrast that to the biblical approach and it says quite a lot.
But, for the record, here is one who will freely admit that not all of the accusations were true. But, by far, the majority were.
Now a question for you - why do you feel such a need for vindication on that issue?
AMEN! VERY WELL SAID.
Hubris, BTW, seems to be a word . . . used in some parts of the web . . . primarily by folks who tend to use it . . . to accuse mostly those who tend not to demonstrate it.
Rather curious . . . for those claiming to be Christ-like.
Because this is NOT a thread about Catholics. How did it become one? THAT’s what I find prideful.
“We protestants are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO (another Quixism) much better at handling these clergy sex abuse scandals than the Catholics were.”
Wrong
“We protestants put our sex abusing clergy in jail and don’t pay out big settlements”
Wrong.
“The problem is MUCH less in protestant churches because our clergy aren’t homosexual and they can marry.”
WRONG WRONG WRONG!
But I thsnk you for your thoughtful reply. Is any protestant out there sorry for all the ugly things they said about the Catholic Church and clergy as a whole, due to the sex abuse scandals? Is any protestant out there sorry that now they have egg on the face and have to face their own disgusting truths? Is ANY protestant out there likely to say, “What can we ALL do about the problem of clergy sex abuse TOGETHER???” (Like admist it will arise unless we are all vigilant at all levels of our churches?)
I have not yet heard one constructive reply that was not self-justifying. I’m willing to bet Christ will hold the protestants feet to the fire on this, who joyfully and pridefully claimed this was a Catholic problem.
“...for those claiming to be Christ-like.”
I’m willing to bet, Quix, that NOBODY on this thread will make that claim. Unless you care to.
Amazing, isn’t it, that the protties* on this thread have done exactly the same things they accuse the Catholics of doing.
Does that surprise you?
*A Quixism
You are welcome. My aim and my purpose in engaging in this issue is to be honest and to put the flesh aside and abide in Christ and to not make it a them vs us scenario, but to honestly call sin as sin and Truth as Truth so that the name of Jesus is exalted and His fruit indicated and man and his deeds are pointed out so that God;s true children may lift each other up in His name, and not man's. I hope that at least 10% of my posts actually do that without me getting in the way! :)
Is any protestant out there sorry for all the ugly things they said about the Catholic Church and clergy as a whole, due to the sex abuse scandals?
I think the issue may be that in pointing out the way the scandal was covered up is not ugly, but it in fact true and is exceedingly more sinful than the ugly behavior that precipiated it. From a biblical standpoint and from what I have observed in participating in and reading even more apologetic threads over many years on many forums is that people begin to use words like "ugly" and other words in describing what others are saying in rebuking sin and refuting errors. They make it out to be a personal attack on their favorite pastor, priest, teacher, doctrine or whole theological system. This always happens. Without exception. We see the example in scripture also. It is just the way sinful man works.
And to be honest, reactions of many RC's here pretty much fit that pattern. It is like a politician or a liberal or kids when conrtonted with error. :) They scream "foul play", "he started it", etc, and go through all sorts of antics to keep others and themselves from admitting errors or falsehoods. And that is actually true of anyone who is being led by the flesh and not abiding in the Spirit. Gal 5 addresses that very well.
Is any protestant out there sorry that now they have egg on the face and have to face their own disgusting truths?
WHy does that make a difference to you? God says "vengenace is mine". I have found that those who cry loud for such vengance have less faith in God being able to handle things His own way and have misplaced their true trust. They are not offended not at sin, but at whatever they feel is a defamation of character of their particular theological idol, which here is the RCC. I know that I have acted the same way when I held on to false doctrines because I did not want to admit error - I did not want to admit that my faith was in a doctrine and not in the Lord God Jesus Christ. But, thanks be to Him, He used that offense to me to expose my fleshful pride in my theological idol. My prayer is that He will use the refuting of the sinful scandalous coverup to do the same for some.
Is ANY protestant out there likely to say, “What can we ALL do about the problem of clergy sex abuse TOGETHER???” (Like admist it will arise unless we are all vigilant at all levels of our churches?)
I think you will find, again, that it is not the indivual RC priests sexual abuse that disgusts people not in the RCC, as disgusting as that act is. Rather, it is the COVER-UP, the continual placing of these high number of sick abusers into other parishes where they were able to prey on other innocent children, time and time again. And that the RCC system not only allows that, but did not follow through with biblical banishment and stripping them of their clerical rank and authority, but just shuffled them elsewhere in the system.
It is that ugly cover-up that is found disgusting. Yes, as long as we live in a fallen world, there will be many who call themselves shepherds of the flock who are not and who abuse the lambs. And we are commanded to be vigilant and to check all things.
Have you thought that by exposing the sin in the RCC system which allows the pedeophiles for the most part, and the protectors of them to live in protected lifestyles, is a way of working together to rid the body of believers of this abomination? Did you ever stop to think that is the end. It is not a hatred of RCC or those associated with it. Indeed, I have a strong love for many of them. However, we cannot work "togerther" until there is an admission that something is wrong.
I have not yet heard one constructive reply that was not self-justifying. I’m willing to bet Christ will hold the protestants feet to the fire on this, who joyfully and pridefully claimed this was a Catholic problem.
I am sorry to hear you say that. For I have read many non RCC who are not self-serving in posting information and Truth. It is an RCC issue because of the set up of the system that shifted the sick abusers from one place to another in full knowledge of what they did, and because the RCC system protects the sinners, whether they be the abusers or the ones who covered it up and put them in new pastures, knowing that without full repentance and abiding in Christ Jesus, a pedeophile will contine in his sins.
From what I have seen, you are trying to deflect things and say that those who are exposing the RCC are making it about the abusers which, admittedly is not limited to the RCC. However, again, it is the RCC's set up which allows the protection of the abusers and those who cover it up. And those are, IMHO worse sinners than the abusers. And that is also the opinion of scripture. If you feel it is with pride that we contine to expose these awful sins, then you are way off base. Yes, there are some who will act and post in the flesh from time to time. That is what always happens when anyone is not abiding in Christ. But, most of the time, it is with a great sadness of heart that we must speak these things. A great sadness, but we do it because we must.
Does that surprise you?
*A Quixism
Can you please give facts, FR links and article links that show the widespread, worldwide, all the way up the corporate level that covers up and protects the abusers for years and years and years, knowing what they continue to do? And can you provide that same information for those church systems that only acted to remove the abusers from the presence of children because they were "found out" and the masses starting getting upset? If you can show that on a widespread basis, as is clearly what happened in the RCC, THEN, and only THEN, can you rightly accuse the protties of doing the same thing.
I have found that scripture is indeed true (go figure!) that when we accuse others of doing something, it is the exact sin that is found in us. And the more and louder we are accusing them, the more abundant it is found in us. I have been sorely convicted that when I am tempted to accuse someone of something, or just finding something in them that really irritates me, it is just a reflection of my own sinful behavior.
Plenty true.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2040899/posts
Evidently went on for years and years.
I promise to ping you to all the new articles. If you want to find more that are already posted, ask annalex. he has a whole directory of old and new cases by denomination. Maybe he’ll post it on this thread.
And this thread is about protestants. I’ll dissect your other posts when I get around to it, but I have a date tonight. And tomorrow night. With a Baptist. He’s not an idiot, though. :D
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