Skip to comments.Islam Factor Forum
Posted on 07/05/2008 2:43:29 PM PDT by Imanhamdani
Islam Factor is a bold experiment in Muslim freedom of expression, freedom of speech and cooperation with people from all walks of life. Some who follow, agree with or are amicable to Islam and some who are opposed. Whether you agree with or follow Islam or not, whether you oppose Islam or not, no matter the nation, race, religion or creed we are from, we all have one thing in common. We all are human-beings with the same basic needs, hopes and emotions.
Our forum hopes to promote an almost unheard of tolerance (that eludes many Muslim groups) that transcends all of our differences while discussing the critical issues that divide us as human-beings. Issues involving Islam on all levels (inside and outside of the Islamic community) will be discussed on our forum openly. This forum will be a mode communication that allows for dissention and encourages methods to overcome the critical problems that concern us all. On the issue of Jihad now.
Jihad, the so called Holy War, is waged to spread the Islamic Religion
The use of the word Jihad in reference to a holy war is an entirely incorrect usage. Since the aggression of earlier Christians in the 11th century the term Holy War has been used in the Christian sense. A Holy War is waged without rational justification but by the warped vision of a religious leader to conquer the Promised Land (i.e. in the Crusader's mind it was Palestine which was promised to the descendants of Prophet Abraham (a.s.)) and spread their religion. In the 4th century the standards for such wars was set by the Papacy (i.e. the Pope). The first criteria for a holy war was that it was to be violent. Killing was not seen as evil and was to be done deliberately or not. The second criteria for a holy war was the establishment of the Christian Republic. Christ was seen as a political figure who had political ambitions set for his people, i.e. the Christians. The Christian Republic was to be ruled by Christ whose representatives on earth were the Pope, bishops, emperors and kings. The Muslims in Palestine were seen as tyrants who occupied Christian territory which was sanctified by the presence of Christ. Pagans in the Balkans were seen as a threat to Christendom, as well as, Muslims in Spain. The Jews were viewed as a people rejected by God for murdering their Messiah.
Prior to the first millennia, the predominant thought in the Church was that Jesus (a.s.) second coming would come, along with the end of the world, which would occur at the turn of the first millennia. The calendar years were calculated according to the Roman calendar. One Christian writer wrote, "On new year's eve, 1000, a crowd gathered at Rome, awaiting the end of the world. Midnight came, nothing happened and the pope, Sylvester II, blessed the crowd and sent them home."1 Not long afterwards came the crusaders.
At the request of various popes, beginning with Pope Urban II, between 1095-1270 A.D., military expeditions against the Pagans, Jews and Muslims were carried out from Europe. Christ was seen to have authorized the Crusades himself and the Pope, who exorcised his authority, was his representative on earth. Many Christians in Palestine, and elsewhere refused to join in on the wars even though the Crusades were seen as an international event. The crusaders believed that if they began to conquer Palestine then Jesus (a.s.) would return, fulfill the promises of the Bible and finish establishing the Kingdom of God on earth. This meant that they must launch a Crusade to liberate Palestine from Muslim rule and rid the land of the Jews who, in their opinion murdered Jesus (a.s.) and forfeited their right to God's promises. The European Christians united under the belief that the conquest of Palestine would usher in the second coming of Jesus (a.s.), and the kingdom of God on earth (i.e. the Christian Republic), swept in massive force across Europe and Asia murdering and burning Jews in their synagogues and attacking Muslim and Pagan settlements. Those Jews who did not die and were found out were forced by the sword to abandon Judaism and confess Christianity. Those who did not were murdered on site! Those Jews who did were sometimes exiled but most were murdered by the sword anyhow. Many Jews did confess but in secret reneged on it and sought forgiveness from God or even committed suicide out of the guilt of not forgoing the persecution. A popular remembrance of these events among Jewish circles is the playing of the Kol Nidre (pronounced kole nidray), a song created and played Jews to plead God's forgiveness and renounce the forced Christian vows. The Crusades were the Holy Wars! A holy war waged by religious zealots with a false man inspired vision base on a man made Bible. A Holy War is aggressive, irrational and waged against a people without cause. There is no doubt that this is the reason why the United States adopted the concept of the separation of Church and State. Islam does not condone, nor recognize forced conversions. According to what God revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.), "If somebody does not accept Islam truly but does so by compulsion or fear of being killed, then that man is not a believer." (Bukhari)2
The word Jihad literally means, to struggle against. Jihad does not initiate aggression, nor does Jihad have to be used in cases of war. There are three ways in which Jihad can be described. First, Jihad is the literal struggle (non-violent) against the sinful temptations of the heart. One can Jihad against him or herself. If one is tempted to steal and takes the appropriate measures to insure that the thought is stricken from his or her mind, through prayer or whatever it takes, then he or she has waged Jihad against his or her heart. Jihad is a character building mechanism and is the constant struggle against sin in our hearts. Second, Jihad is a struggle (non-violent) against the philosophies of society at large, such as atheism or humanism. Jihad of this type is through discourse. Muslims will engage in debates about facts and opinions to insure that people do not abandon the belief that God exists, is active in our lives, relevant in our society and must be worshipped. This type of Jihad spreads our religion, is non-violent and non-aggressive discourse. The third type of Jihad is what the Christian and christianized west attempts confused with their own transgressions and wrongfully propagates spreading falsehood. Jihad is, also, the defense of our families from invading armies and tyrants! As seen in many parts of the world, every side has an aggressor and a defender. Jihad (violent defensive struggle) is a defensive action and not aggressive! It is a nation defending itself from an aggressor. It is the right of every person on earth, Muslim and not, to defend their family from impending destruction and aggression. Qur'an 2:190-193 sets the terms about Jihad of this type:
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution is worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more persecution and the religion becomes Allah's. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.
This type of Jihad (defensive) is not a holy war, which is aggressive in nature. If violence is perpetrated against the Islamic community then God has authorized the means by which they can defend themselves and their families. God has set the guidelines and limits by which such a defensive action may take place. There is no support in the Qur'an or Sunnah for Jihad to be used in any other manner than defense. Islam condemns non-provoked attacks and anyone who claims to be Muslim who does such a thing is not following Islam! During the Crusades Christians waged a Holy War against the Jews and Muslims. Muslims went to Jihad against them to defend their way of life!
Exerpt from Western Misconceptions: The Facts About Islam by BrJimC 2000
Posted on Islamfactor.org
In keeping with the muslim-approved principle that it's okay to LIE to nonbelievers if it advances the cause of islam, this fellow is trying to make islam more acceptable to western societies, never mind the truth!
Here are your first questions. The source documents for the Koran were written in what language? Have you seen them? Where are they kept? Who is the chief Imam of Islam?
that is funny ken. dont make me laugh too much. whatever you’re reading isnt doing you justice ;)
thank you :)
Interesting, Western European centered view of history, Imam. Is there any reason why you left out the part about the Mohammedan policy of conversion or the sword in the Eastern Roman Empire in the Balkans, ME and North Africa? Imam, you know full well that the Mohammedan armies were killing Eastern Christians long before any Pope of Rome called for a crusade.
“Islam does not condone, nor recognize forced conversions.”
Did someone forget to tell the Turks?
During the Crusades Christians waged a Holy War against the Jews and Muslims. Muslims went to Jihad against them to defend their way of life!
Nope, you are wrong..Mr History Revisionist..
From the 7th Century on, the Moslems had attacked and invaded half of Europe, converting Christians to Islam in the name of allah and Mohammad, at the point of the sword also called JIHAD, or Holy War...and unprovoked..
Roland beat them back from conquering France..
The Crusades were only against the Moslems because the Moslems had attacked Jerusalem and only allowed Islam to be worshipped..
For 200 uears the Christian kings of Europe lead Christian armies against the Islamic hordes to rescue the Christians and to take beck Jerusalem...
Eventually the Islamic barbarians were pushed out of Spain and other western countries in the 15th Century..
Since that time, the Islamics have continued to wage Jihad, or Holy War against Christians and Jews..
9/11 was JIHAD, Holy War against the United Staes of America..the Islamics had NOT been attacked first..
So tell me, who was Jesus?
“Dear Islam Forum: I never thought that the letters I read were actually true, until one day I had an interesting experience involving a sheep named Fatima...”
There’s a small problem. The Islamic concept of Al-Taqiyah makes anything you say potential bullsh!t.
How thoughtful of them that they took the time to massacre the Jews they found on their way to Jerusalem, then.
I'm picking that there'll be more in the coming days.
Has the FR religion forum been chosen as a target for a little propaganda? That's quite a compliment to FR.
As for the piece on jihad, there's nothing there that Bin Laden and al-Qaeda wouldn't be happy to sign off on. Their position, as I understand it, is that all the bombings, murder and bloodshed are in fact defensive in nature. According to Osama and his acolytes, they have been necessitated by the presence of infidels on Muslim land and are thus classified as a defense not an unjust aggression. So clearly, on this basis, any sort of mayhem can be justified and thus your definition of true jihad as "defensive" and not "aggressive" is essentially meaningless.
The truth is that the crusades were a defensive action taken by Christians because of the agression brought about by the Islamic based expension.
Ah yes, strike off the heads, strike off the hands of the unbelievers.
That’s what the prophet says, is it not?
Jihad means EXACTLY what it has been used to mean.
You cannot fool those who are informed.
elif air ab denikch.
Problem with that is that the Koran itself says to kill us wherever we are found.
It says ‘unbelievers’, and ‘infidels’, but the definitions of those words are awlays, ‘anyone who does not bow to Mecca’.
So you be the judge.
>> Since the aggression of earlier Christians in the 11th century the term Holy War has been used in the Christian sense. A Holy War is waged without rational justification but by the warped vision of a religious leader to conquer the Promised Land <<
By the 11th century, Islam had raped, piullaged, and burned its way across freom India to Spain. 2/3rds of Christendom lie in ruins, as it was so reluctant to make war, despite the horrific savagery that killed more three hundred times the death toll of the Crusades. Finally, the Crusades were called in defense of Constantinople, to rescue civilization from the Satanic hordes of Islam.
That’s right: THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION people died at the insane, demonic hordes unleashed by that possessed pig-raping pedophile, Mohammed.
You talk in one breath as if you desire peace and rational discourse, and in the next you nurse thousand-year-old slanders. Take your evil elsewhere.
Don’t forget that Islamicist genocide killed 100 million Indians, 150 millian Chinese, and 100 million Africans and Midlle Easterners.
The Crusades... both sides... resulted in 1 million dead.
Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . . don't be shy.
Damn it. Not again!
Did I make it IBTZ?
Mad Mo is Satan's ho!
I’m an Ham Dani?
Too much hashish perhaps?
“The use of the word Jihad in reference to a holy war is an entirely incorrect usage’
I’m happy to post after the Zot on this benighted thread.
DTG 072319Z JUL 08
T O P S E C R E T VIKINGKITTEN
RE: POST 1
1. WATCH NCOIC HAS CONFIRMED REPEAT CONFIRMED TROLL SIGHTING, THIS DTG, THIS LOCATION. FR MOD COMMAND HAS INITIATED ZORCH ON TARGET (ZOT).
3. WATCH NCOIC HAS CONCLUDED BATTLE DAMAGE ASSESSMENT (BDA) FOLLOWING STRIKE TERMINATION ORDER. BDA EVALUATES STRIKE EFFECT AS LEVEL-ONE EXTRA CRISPY.
3. ALL ELEMENTS ARE AUTHORIZED TO EXECUTE OPTION DOGPILE UPON RECEIPT OF THIS MSG.
4. ALL ELEMENTS ARE DIRECTED TO RALLY POINT URSULA FOR AUTHORIZED LINE-DANCE UPON TROLL REMAINS. GENERAL ORDER ONE IS SUSPENDED THIS OCCASION. CONSUMPTION OF ADULT BEVERAGES IS ENCOURAGED.
5. CHALLENGE/PASSWORD: VALHALLA-OVERLORD.
EOM EOM EOM
We didn't even get to play with this one.
Job well done Viking kitties! =^..^=
You say you’re non-violent, but your slander against Christians sounds like more of the same garbage we get from the hirabis. If you will judge me by the actions of crusaders, shall I judge you by the assassination of Asma bint Marwan by Muhammad’s followers, who was stabbed so hard through the chest that that her body was stapled to the frame of her couch by the blade, while her baby slept beside her? Or perhaps I should judge your faith by the slaughter of the 600-800 men of the Beni Qoreiga, and the selling of 1,000 Beni Qoreiga women and children into slavery in Medina in the 620s?
Islam is besieged by hirabis and distrusted by Christians because you have embraced a different Gospel than the one Allah gave you, which was to bring you joy and salvation:
“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people! If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed, then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He is
‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.’
Salvation is found in no one else, there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”—Acts 4:8-12
“When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.”—Revelation 1:17-18
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!”—Galatians 1:8
May you find the Truth, the Way and the Life, the man Jesus Christ.
Furthermore, Jesus' final statement on the cross as He, the 'Lamb of God', taking our place in judgment, finally uttered:
"...It is finished...."[Joh 19:30]
Enduring till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, the FINAL work of the redemption of mankind!
Yet, 700 years later after this Mohammad comes along and crafting the belief system of Islam, contradicts this axiomatic truth?
As Mr. Silverback stated, may you find the Truth, the Way and the Life, the man Jesus Christ.
Ah, thereligionofpeace.com...love that site, use it all the time at YouTube.
Hey, Imanhamdani, note how many women and children these guys are killing. They are killing the wives and children of their neighbors for the glory of Allah the merciful. So, if that’s NOT what Islam is all about, how about you go talk to those guys (or better yet, kill them) instead of bloviating at us about historical events that you’re getting wrong AND happened 800 years ago?
Thanks FRiend. Good words.
B-b-b-but! My daughter studied World Religions (a semester, online) and says “Islam is a religion of PEACE!”
I sent her The Obama File and told her it was neither.
How long are we going to have to listen to the stock drivel from Liberal-Leftist-Loonacrats?
Quite right...an excellent site.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.