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Vatican Regret at Anglican Vote to Ordain Female Bishops
Vatican Radio ^ | July 8, 2008

Posted on 07/08/2008 7:44:22 AM PDT by NYer

(8 July 08 - RV) The Vatican Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity issued a Statement Tuesday regarding recent events within the Anglican Communion.

The Council is headed by Cardinal Walter Kasper. The statement reads:
 “We have regretfully learned of the Church of England vote to pave the way for the introduction of legislation which will lead to the ordaining of women to the Episcopacy.

The Catholic position on the issue was clearly expressed by Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II. Such a decision signifies a breaking away from the apostolic tradition maintained by all of the Churches since the first millennium, and therefore is a further obstacle for the reconciliation between the Catholic Church and the Church of England.

This decision will have consequences on the future of dialogue, which had up until now born fruit, as Cardinal Kasper had clearly explained when he spoke on June 5 2006 to all of the bishops of the Church of England at the invitation of the Archbishop of Canterbury.
The Cardinal has been invited once again to express the Catholic position at the next Lambeth Conference at the end of July”.
 This week the Church of England's ruling General Synod voted to consecrate women as bishops and approved a code of practice.

The synod members voted to approve work on a national statutory code to accommodate those within the Church who object to women bishops.
The synod rejected compromise proposals for new "super bishops" to cater for objectors - and also their preferred option of creating new dioceses.

The decision to go ahead with work on the code came after more than six hours of debate by the General Synod.

Some 1,300 clergy had threatened to leave the Church if safeguards were not agreed to reassure objectors.



TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anglican; catholic; europeanchristians; femalebishops; homosexualagenda; lambeth; religiousleft; vatican
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1 posted on 07/08/2008 7:44:22 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

This replaces the previous thread that has been locked because I labeled it ‘Ecumenical’.


2 posted on 07/08/2008 7:45:33 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

The way forward to reunion between Rome and Canterbury does not lead through Canterbury but Lagos.


3 posted on 07/08/2008 8:00:38 AM PDT by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: NYer
The Cardinal has been invited once again to express the Catholic position at the next Lambeth Conference

Godspeed.

4 posted on 07/08/2008 8:19:49 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: NYer

So much for Episcopal priests becoming Catholic priests.


5 posted on 07/08/2008 8:24:20 AM PDT by al_c (Avoid the consequences of erudite vernacular utilized irrespective of necessity)
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To: NYer

>>>This week the Church of England’s ruling General Synod voted to consecrate women as bishops and approved a code of practice>>>>

Good news for the next generation of girls! Fairness and equality should be a given in 2008!

Now the Catholic Church needs to allow women in that role.


6 posted on 07/08/2008 8:29:06 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: NYer

Time for the Anglican faithful, what remains of them, to flee this apostate body and find refuge in some other home. Rome is probably their most likely candidate but no one who is a Bible believing Christian should remain in this apostate church. You can bet that ordaining gay clergy is coming to England, much sooner than any of them would dream.


7 posted on 07/08/2008 8:34:03 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: NYer
“We have regretfully learned of the Church of England vote to pave the way for the introduction of legislation which will lead to the ordaining of women to the Episcopacy.

*******************

It's unfortunate, but this may be an insurmountable obstruction. So be it.

8 posted on 07/08/2008 8:35:07 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: HappyinAZ
Women in the clergy is against the direct teaching and authority of scripture. 1 Timothy. Jesus picked 12 men to be his apostles, and the apostles appointed men to be the heads of local bodies of worshipers. Men stand in the place of the apostles for a reason. The church is the bride of Christ. The Catholics (which I am not) understand this and definitely have it right.
9 posted on 07/08/2008 8:36:40 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: Boagenes

......>>the apostles appointed men to be the heads of local bodies of worshipers...>>>

Rules made 1500 years ago, by men...when women were treated as less than posessions.

Bigotry is hard to overcome, but I’m glad to see the Angelicans are doing so!


10 posted on 07/08/2008 8:43:44 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

You’re kidding, right?


11 posted on 07/08/2008 8:50:21 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: HappyinAZ

Oh, please. It’s not “bigotry;” there’s a natural difference between men and women. Men can’t bear children or be mothers; women can’t be fathers or priests (or bishops).

All the churches with women “priests,” “bishops,” etc. are dying on the vine, anyway, so this will all be a moot point within a few years.


12 posted on 07/08/2008 8:57:41 AM PDT by livius
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To: HappyinAZ
Bigotry? Uh, no, it's called "complimentarian", and it's basis is in 1 Timothy, and it's been established orthodoxy for nearly two thousand years of Christian history. If you don't like it, take it up with the Apostle Paul.

As one other commenter here pointed out, any church that has allowed women clergy has seen a rapid decline. It holds true for each and every denomination that has abandoned God's Word. The Episcopal Church is seeing people leaving in droves, and you can be sure that the same will be happening with the Church of England.

In fact, 1300 clergymen and 11 bishops have already signed a letter threatening to leave (and defect to the Catholic Church, probably) if this resolution passed. You can be sure that we are witnessing the beginning of the breakup of the Church of England.

13 posted on 07/08/2008 9:09:04 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: NYer

I started another thread that links an article by Damian Thompson of the Telegraph, U.K. It states that at least 2 Anglican Traditonalist are going to seek Full Communion with Rome and also try to bring in their entire congregations en masse.

Interesting times we are living in and the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI keeps getting more and more interesting every day.

Regards


14 posted on 07/08/2008 9:09:21 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: livius
Amen. Following as best we can in the footsteps of Christ seems to be a better choice.

Nothing He did was without plan or reason.

15 posted on 07/08/2008 9:09:44 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer
“We have regretfully learned of the Church of England vote to pave the way for....the ordaining of women to the Episcopacy."

Hmm, but they had no problem with the installation of Vicky Gene Robinson as a Bishop?
(For those who don't recall, he/she is the openly homosexual Episcopal Bishop from New England).

16 posted on 07/08/2008 9:09:50 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: CTrent1564
Interesting times we are living in and the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI keeps getting more and more interesting every day.

****************

I couldn't agree more!

17 posted on 07/08/2008 9:14:25 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: HappyinAZ
Rules made 1500 years ago, by men...when women were treated as less than posessions.

Actually, a decision made by Jesus the Christ. This man/God was so unconventional that he commanded his followers to "love your enemies." It is the modern apostates who are prostrate before the mores of the moment, not Jesus.

18 posted on 07/08/2008 9:14:41 AM PDT by Faraday
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To: Psalm 73

I believe the Episcopal Church and the Church of England are separate administrative units. One of the issues here is that the C of E is now, apparently, going to accept US Episcopalian parctices that it had formerly rejected.

Granted, they are ultimately the same church, but a lot of more conservative Anglicans in England liked to maintain this fiction that somehow the Episcopal Church was just radical, extreme, and didn’t really reflect “their” church. But of course it did, which is what they are now being forced to admit.


19 posted on 07/08/2008 9:17:29 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius

This is a good, fair and just decision by the Angelicans.

It is reflective of the fact that women are just as educated and just as capable as men in the year 2008. This was not the case when these “rules” were written (by men and for men)a thousand years ago.

Women can and will continue in the role of spiritual leaders.... And, for any churh to admonish them for it is a sad sad thing that reflects “blind following” as oppossed to “informend leading”.

I’m open to whomever speaks for goodness, kindness, and holds the 10 commandments to be a good guide for humanity. Shouldn’t matter if this person is black, white, orange,man or woman.....


20 posted on 07/08/2008 9:23:55 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

Good for you. To what church do you belong?


21 posted on 07/08/2008 9:27:29 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: CTrent1564
I started another thread that links an article by Damian Thompson of the Telegraph, U.K. It states that at least 2 Anglican Traditonalist are going to seek Full Communion with Rome and also try to bring in their entire congregations en masse.

Is it possible to just post the links as separate threads and I'll ping them.

Interesting times we are living in and the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI keeps getting more and more interesting every day.

As the Italians say - Cent' Anni! - may he live to be 100!

22 posted on 07/08/2008 9:40:39 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: HappyinAZ

This was not the case when these “rules” were written (by men and for men)a thousand years ago.

But these “rules” were not “written by men”
They were written by God


23 posted on 07/08/2008 9:41:27 AM PDT by sawmill trash (You declare jihad ... we declare DEGUELLO !)
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To: trisham

Raised Catholic, but hesitant to raise my two adopted daughters in what feels like such an “antiquated” religion. They obviously do a great deal of good, but I’d like to see them modernize (allow Priests/Nuns to marry, embrace more modern family planning methods, pound on polititions and governments that subsidize abortion...etc).

Perhaps I’ll join the Angelicans! :)


24 posted on 07/08/2008 9:42:32 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ
Good news for the next generation of girls! Fairness and equality should be a given in 2008!

The bad news for "the girls" is that they'll have no congregation! The Church of England has more chiefs than indians and is bleeding members rapidly. Numbers attending church are minuscule and still dropping. The "girls" will be having nothing more than a nice fancy dress party with close family.

The C of E is on a death watch and about to go to Davy Jones' locker. All sensible individuals are now heading for the lifeboats.

Now the Catholic Church needs to allow women in that role.

We can't dearie. Somebody has to look after all the new Anglican converts, don't they?. Also, maybe you missed this; Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, "On Preserving Priestly Ordination to Men Alone". It's a done deal.

Probably the best course of action would be for the women priest advocates to hook up with the C of E before it implodes.

25 posted on 07/08/2008 9:46:34 AM PDT by marshmallow (An infallible Bible is useless without an infallible interpreter)
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To: sawmill trash

>>>>But these “rules” were not “written by men”
They were written by God>>>

No. They were written by men...interpreting for God...and therefore reflect the customs of the the day...1500 years ago. Only a few men could read or write...no women ...only men led everything...no women. No man 1500 years ago would have dreamed that women would be college educated equals in the year 2008!

So! We’re lucky! Now both sexes can give spiritual guidence and mentoring in a society that desperataly needs it!


26 posted on 07/08/2008 9:47:39 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: marshmallow

>>>>>The “girls” will be having nothing more than a nice fancy dress party with close family.>>>>
>>>>We can’t dearie>>>>

Sad for you....you’re just seething with condecension for women....

It’s a new and better world than we had 1500 years ago when only men were allowed schooling. We need both Men and Women to help us and our children through the moral challanges that this and future years will present.


27 posted on 07/08/2008 9:53:41 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: livius
"Episcopal Church and the Church of England are separate administrative units..."

Right, but they are part of the same world Anglican body. Which is why some Episcopal churches is the US have put themselves under the direction of their African brothers, like Bishops in Rwanda, for instance are head of some Episopal churches here - Canterburry is none too happy about it - but that's a good thing.

28 posted on 07/08/2008 9:57:28 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: HappyinAZ

Wow...so you get to decide to arbitrarily ignore pieces of scripture that you don’t agree with, huh? You might want to look up the name “Marcion”...


29 posted on 07/08/2008 9:59:36 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: HappyinAZ
Sad for you....you’re just seething with condecension for women....

Au contraire. Women are the flowers of God's creation, who bear and raise our children, bring love to the home and without whom, life would simply cease. Here, read the beautiful things which Pope John Paul II said to women in this letter. It says it far better than I ever could.

My condescension is reserved for those who think the Church is simply an Oprah-like, self-affirmation group which is there do do our bidding.

It’s a new and better world than we had 1500 years ago when only men were allowed schooling. We need both Men and Women to help us and our children through the moral challanges that this and future years will present.

Indeed we do. That doesn't logically imply priesthood for women, though. Read what St. Paul says about the Mystical Body of Christ. Not all are prophets, not all are teachers........each has his or her own role in the building up of the Church. Men have a role as do women. True in the family and true in the Church. Our roles are complementary

Anyway, don't take my word for it. Pull up a chair, sit back and watch as the women-ordaining, homosexual-blessing Anglican Church splinters even further, shrivels and then vanishes.

30 posted on 07/08/2008 10:06:20 AM PDT by marshmallow (An infallible Bible is useless without an infallible interpreter)
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To: HappyinAZ; livius; trisham
Shouldn’t matter if this person is black, white, orange,man or woman.....

(Of course, being Catholic, I draw the line at Orangemen in any event.)

For Catholics, your statement, Happy, is as much an ecclesiological statement as one about equity. You are suggesting that 1,000, 1,500, or almost 2,000 years ago God decided to abandon the Church to a systemic unfairness which only now "in these latter days" He has finally seen fit to address.

I'm not making this comment as an argument against what you are saying, but rather to sort of lay out some of the different attitudes one can have toward what might seem to be a simple issue of "gender equity".

Also, for us, while goodness, kindness, and the 10 commandments ought to be integral to the teaching of the Church, teaching is not the only thing the Church does, in our humble opinion.

We think that through the ordained ministry and especially through bishops and priests she actually serves as a conduit for Divine graces. Yes, it's outrageous, but it's what we think.

Those whose views and analyses of things are informed by dialectical materialism may tend to see the roles of missionary (apostle), supervisor (bishop), elder (priest), servant (deacon) primarily in terms of power and control. And certainly there are plenty of instances where authority has been degraded to mere power, and pastoral concern has been reduced to mere control.

But to see the structure of the Church and of Holy Orders in merely economic or political terms is to miss what is truly there.

It's sort of like what I am told Kant said of marriage: that it was a contract for the mutual abuse of bodies. To which we can only say, "Well, yeah, sort of, I kind of see what you mean ...." But the idea of matrimony as a conduit of grace and a school of Charity is totally missing from that superficial account.

Further, to think that we humans, in our present state, personally and culturally, know all we need to know about sex and gender is, I think, ludicrous! We are mysteries to ourselves, to members of our own sex, and certainly to those of the extreme opposite sex.

Look around you, for crying out loud! 80 years ago, when artificial birth control was finally finding approval in our culture, the old fuddy-duddies were saying, "It will lead to the approval of homosexuality, "and they were mocked. 30 years ago, as the Episcopalians were approaching the approval of the ordination of women, the old fuddy-duddies were saying, "It will lead to the approval of homosexuality, "and they were mocked.

Then it turned out that among the women seeking ordination were lesbians, and among the bishops agitating for the ordination of women were practicing homosexuals. And within a few short years, we got, well, Vicky Gene! And a man who frankly trashed his marriage vows and left his wife and daughters in search of a homosexual love was touted to us all as "a WONDERFUL pastor." His later startled discovery that he suffered from alcoholism as well as perversion has not seemed to have any effect whatsoever on his reputation as a wise, wonderful, and holy man.

And think of his daughters, like the daughter of the ate Bishop Paul Moore of New York, proponent of female and homosexual ordination and active homosexual adulterer. "Well, yes, Daddy did leave us, did cheat on Mommy, did prefer sexual gratification before his duty to his children, and sometimes we missed him terribly, but he is, after all, a VERY holy man."

All through this, who has paid? Who ALWAYS pays? The children. Molech is a hungry God who may count himself blessed in his worshippers, eager as they are to sacrifice their children to fulfill their desires.

As the acceptance of homosexuality, divorce, artificial birth-control, and "keeping house" without matrimony has risen, so has the rate of illegitimacy and the commoditization of children generally.

Now that children are a "life-style choice", selective abortion is being practised and perfectly healthy children murdered because they are the "wrong" sex.

Yes, yes, I know this LOOKS like "post hoc ergo propter hoc." But when a lesbian "priest" in the Episcopal Church decides to get herself artificially inseminated with a kind of vile soup made from mixing semen donated by three different men so that it won't be clear who the resulting child's father is,
that is, when an allegedly Christian minister purposefully sets out to have an orphan,
when any kind of a Christian puts herself in a situation such that if her child should ever ask, "Why don't I have a father like the other children do?" the only answer would be, "Because I didn't WANT you to have a father!" and when the so-called "Church" tolerates that selfish cruelty,
then I think we have all the proof we need that we do not understand sex and gender and that we force the innocent and helpless to pay for our proud experimentation.

It may seem archaic. It may seem something an old fuddy-duddy would say. But it is just possible that the Lord whose followers included women, whose Resurrection was first reported by woman, and whose Holy Mother was with the apostles at the first Pentecost of the new covenant ... it is just possible that He made apostles of men only for reasons other and more profound than power politics.

31 posted on 07/08/2008 10:14:04 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Boagenes

>>>>>Wow...so you get to decide to arbitrarily ignore pieces of scripture that you don’t agree with, huh? You might want to look up the name “Marcion”...>>>>

Silly response to a valid discussion of the changes in our world in the last 1500 years.

I’m sure God will welcome anyone and everyone that would like to preach His scripture and be a moral compass in complex society. You can call them “ministers” or “priests” or “pastors” or bishops” or whatever you like....but without question, God will welcome all men and women in this role.

Men make rules to exclude others....God is all inclusive.


32 posted on 07/08/2008 10:19:07 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

You keep repeating 1500 years ago like it is relevant to something.


33 posted on 07/08/2008 10:20:51 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: HappyinAZ
Now both sexes can give spiritual guidence and mentoring in a society that desperataly needs it!

Well, we "seething with condescension" lay Dominicans think that women have been doing that for a mighty long time, and we hold in especial esteem Catherine of Siena who gave right much mentoring and spiritual guidance to the Pope, among others. She died in 1380, I think.

34 posted on 07/08/2008 10:22:02 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: HappyinAZ

Excellent!


35 posted on 07/08/2008 10:32:46 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: HappyinAZ

Serious question - did you welcome the Oprah episode where the pregnant “man” was able to have a child, or did you see some weird crossing of natural sexual roles?


36 posted on 07/08/2008 10:33:49 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: trisham

Gotta love the Angelicans!


37 posted on 07/08/2008 10:36:11 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
(Of course, being Catholic, I draw the line at Orangemen in any event.)

*****************

Heh. Me, too.

The rest of your post? I completely agree. Men and women are so different, to deny those differences is a form of mental illness, imho. Rather, let us accept and love those differences, and thank God for giving us all that He has. As time goes on, I realize more and more that God has made us as we are because He loves us, and wants us to be happy.

That includes accepting the role He has chosen for us.

38 posted on 07/08/2008 10:40:26 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Mad Dawg

LOL! No kidding. :)


39 posted on 07/08/2008 10:41:19 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: thefrankbaum

>>>>Serious question - did you welcome the Oprah episode where the pregnant “man” was able to have a child, or did you see some weird crossing of natural sexual roles?>>>

You apparently can’t have or maintain an intellectual discussion of the cultural, educational, role changes that have taken place in the last 1500 or so years...and feel free to deginerate into this kind of nonsense.

Sad for you. It reflects on you...not on me.

Have a good day.


40 posted on 07/08/2008 10:42:33 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ

Wow, so your argument then holds for gays in the clergy too, doesn’t it? If you can’t see how it does, then I pity you.


41 posted on 07/08/2008 10:45:50 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: trisham
Gather round, kiddies! It's time once again for Granpaw Mad Dawg's theory of why God made sexes:

It's 'cause when we die and see angels (in the angelican church) clearly for the first time, we will already have experienced rational creatures utterly unlike ourselves, so we'll sort of be prepared.

You gotta think these things through ....

Next week, Granpaw Mad Dawg explains how to lose weight.

But seriously. I forget when it first hit me that it's the kids who pay. But it just keeps on seeming to be true. Kids need us to try to act more or less properly. They really need it.

42 posted on 07/08/2008 10:46:06 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
LOL! I'll be looking forward to your next lesson. :)

Many of the problems with our society today might be attributed to parents who don't know how to be responsible adults. Despite all of their protests, children really do want their parents to be in charge, and together.

43 posted on 07/08/2008 10:50:13 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Boagenes

>>>>Wow, so your argument then holds for gays in the clergy too, doesn’t it? If you can’t see how it does, then I pity you.>>>

Gays have been around for the entire history of all churches and most congregations welcome them without endorsing nor encouraging their life-styles. All we can do is act in a Christian manner to ALL our fellow men and women.


44 posted on 07/08/2008 11:00:54 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: HappyinAZ
Like I said, it was a serious question. I was curious to what extent your egalitarian principles went. I haven't seen an intellectual discussion on this thread, so I'm not entirely sure where I've deviated from that.
45 posted on 07/08/2008 11:01:51 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: HappyinAZ
So in regards to your argument being used to support gay clergy, I take it by your round about response that you actually mean, "yes".

Anyone who thinks they can support gay clergy or acceptance of homosexuality in the church is ignoring scripture and standing in opposition to God's Word and Christian orthodoxy.

46 posted on 07/08/2008 11:08:42 AM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: HappyinAZ
All we can do is act in a Christian manner to ALL our fellow men and women.

I don't think anyone on this thread is advocating acting in an unchristian manner.

47 posted on 07/08/2008 11:14:20 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: HappyinAZ

>>>>But these “rules” were not “written by men”
They were written by God>>>

No. They were written by men...interpreting for God...

Then you and I disagree.


48 posted on 07/08/2008 11:44:22 AM PDT by sawmill trash (You declare jihad ... we declare DEGUELLO !)
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To: livius
I believe the Episcopal Church and the Church of England are separate administrative units.

I don't know the nuts and bolts of it, but doesn't the split (or whatever) date from the American Revolution . . . the British Crown being the head of the Anglican Church and all?

49 posted on 07/08/2008 11:58:13 AM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz
There's no simple answer, because a church which includes nationality as an integral part of its self-concept is going to have some problems along the way.

But yeah. The Sovereign is supreme governor of the C of E -- but of course the sovereign has less and less power and so that's less and less meaningful. But it was pretty meaningful in the 1780s.

And there was some resentment in England, you know, over our rebellion and all that, koff koff.

So the US Church, once it had secured what it considered to be valid Episcopal orders, set up its own polity, rather like that of the Articles of Confederation.

50 posted on 07/08/2008 12:13:26 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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