Posted on 07/08/2008 8:50:51 AM PDT by CTrent1564
The Bishop of Ebbsfleet, the Rt Rev Andrew Burnham, is to lead his fellow Anglo-Catholics from the Church of England into the Roman Catholic Church, the Catholic Herald will reveal this week.
Bishop Burnham, one of two "flying bishops" in the province of Canterbury, has made a statement asking Pope Benedict XVI and the English Catholic bishops for "magnanimous gestures" that will allow traditionalists to become Catholics en masse.
He is confident that this will happen, following talks in Rome with Cardinal Levada, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Cardinal Kasper, the Vatican's head of ecumenism. He was accompanied on his visit by the Rt Rev Keith Newton, Bishop of Richborough, the other Canterbury "flying bishop", who is expected to follow his example.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
To other Free Republic Posters. If this has already been posted, I apologize. I did not see it anywhere, but it is interesting news.
Catholic-leaning Anglicans please feel free to reply and let us know what you are hearing.
Regards and God Bless
He is confident that this will happen, following talks in Rome with Cardinal Levada, head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and Cardinal Kasper, the Vatican's head of ecumenism.
In other words, they bypassed the awful British Catholic bishops, who were rumored to have blocked a similar attempt under JPII. Deo gratias!
I don’t see why they can’t do it in large groups, as long as they go through RCIA and get properly confirmed. They can’t have the Pope snap his fingers and say they’re Catholic now... they haven’t been validly confirmed.
You are correct, but it can be done en masse. The Anglican Bishops and priests would be ordained under the Pastoral provision, which has been available since 1980. Please see link below. Also, note that there are 6 Anglican use parishes in the United States, thus a working model is already present.
http://www.pastoralprovision.org/
In 2003, then Cardinal Ratizinger sent a letter to Traditional Anglicans at a meeting in Plano encouraging them to stand fast to Apostolic Tradition, the Creeds, and orthodox doctrine on Liturgy, morality, etc. Cardinal Ratzinger was also involved in the mass conversion of some 700 Anglican clergy in 1992 to 1994 when the ordination of women clergy became doctrine/policy of the Church of England.
What would happen is entire parishes would come into full communion by receiving the sacrament of Confirmation by Catholic Priests/Bishops, recite the Profession of Faith (Creed) and then receive Holy Communion.
Again, this has been done in the U.S. Go back to the pastoral provision link and look up Fr. Eric Bergman who pastors and Anglican Use parish in Pennsylvania. He, and some 200 of his parishoners came into Full communion with Rome en masse so I don’t see why it can’t be done for English Anglicans as well.
Interesting Times and the papacy of Papa Benedict keeps getting more and more exciting.
All of us Catholics should pray for our fellow Christians in the Anglican Communion and that provisions will be made for them to come into the Catholic Church and retain much of their beautiful Anglican Liturgy, which after all, is a product of the Sarum-use form of the Roman Rite, which was the predominate form of the Roman Liturgy celebrated in England going back to the early 13th century.
Regards and God Bless
Tiber swim bump!!
Am I right in understanding that the Queen, the head of the Church of England, secretly meets with the Roman Catholic Archbishop and is believed to have received Holy Communion from him? The until lately Prime Minister has just converted to Roman Catholicism. A good one third of Church of England and Anglican congregations across the globe are inches away from bolting and the Pope has his arms wide open and is willing to make transitional compromise? Sounds to me like this five hundred year old nightmare is coming to an end. I’d bet that in twenty years, what remains of the once great episcopal church will be part of the UCC.
True to a point, but one can’t take the sins of King Henry VIII and Thomas Cramner and extrapolate them to Anglicans today. And for the record, many of the Catholic-leaning Anglicans, who were influenced by the Oxford Movement (Tractarians), such as Cardinal Newman, Fr. Ronald Knox, Fr. Gerald Manly Hopkins, S.J., G.K. Chesterton, etc, actually prayed for the Pope in their Liturgies.
Many of these Anglicans with Catholic leanings saw themselves as working to bring The Church of England, corporately, back into Full Communion with Rome.
I think all of us lifelong Catholics should do well to read St. Luke’s Gospel about the prodigal son (c.f. Luke 15: 11-32; or as Pope Benedict refers to as the story of the 2 brothers: See Jesus of Nazareth) and treat Anglicans coming back to Rome as members of the family seeking sincere reconciliation and not act like the older brother in that Gospel.
Regards and God Bless
Ping
Convert bishops!
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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15
Actually rather than RCIA, the priest and bishops, formerly Anglican, must take Catholic theology and other classes.
“..papacy of Papa Benedict keeps getting more and more exciting.”
When JPII died there were many who despaired asking who could possibly take over the job of Vicar of Christ.
Have no fear, B16 is here. (Courtesy of the Holy Spirit)
< *cough*cough* >
We met with our rector 2-3 times and went over all the details. If you are a real, true-blue, more-Roman-than-Rome "nosebleed Anglican", then the ONLY issues on the table are the validity of Anglican Orders and the supremacy of the Pope. That's it.
Not to mention that I would have been a truly royal pain in an RCIA class . . . . not only because I am a pedant and read the Church Fathers for medieval history, but also because High Anglicans never even acknowledged the existence of Vatican Council II.
Regarding the prodigal son:
His change of heart, his "conversion," consists in his recognition of this, his realization that he has become alienated and wandered into truly "alien lands," and his return to himself. What he finds in himself, though, is the compass pointing toward the father, toward the true freedom of a "son." The speech he prepares for his homecoming reveals to us the full extent of the inner pilgrimage he is now making. His words show that his whole life is now a steady progress leading "home"--through so many deserts--to himself and to the father. He is on a pilgrimage toward the truth of his existence, and that means "homeward." --Pope Benedict XVI, Jesus of Nazareth, p. 205
May the Anglican converts adopt the wisdom of the prodigal son.
And not act like the liberal Catholic bishops in England who dread the influx of conservative Catholics who love the Pope.
might be of interest to you
I believe the Pastoral Provision does not provide for persons in the UK — this is what he poster was talking about regarding the English RC bishops blocking it.
I’m a member of a volitional, pastoral provision parish in Houston.
But my daughter was confirmed by the Archbishop, in his very first class of confirmands.
The Archbishop asked the kids questions on open mike in the middle of the confirmation service. They all did great, but the priest in charge of the confirmation class and the Christian Education director were sweating bullets!!!
The Queen receives Communion.Wow,First time I heard that.
Au contraire'! It was the Church of Rome which first deviated from St. Peter's direction. (See the reasons for the Protestant Reformation and don't blast me with bull about Henry VIII's affection for divorce and remarriage)
Would that the Anglocatholics follow the example of the TAC and sign the Cathecism, proclaiming their agreement to all that the Church teaches.
I would guess not as Anglican bishops are allowed to marry.
I am so excited about this news.
The Pastoral provision is just for the US. At the same time the English Bishops lobbied successfully to have their own procedures that they control. The Pastoral provision is controlled by the Vatican. The English Bishops don’t want an Anglican enclave within the English Church like there is with the Anglican Use Society in America.
Are you coming to the AU Conference this week? I am excited to hear Bishop Steenson's address since he swam the Tiber recently. I read this, and thought he summed it up nicely:
“This is not the Anglicanism in which I was formed, inspired by the Oxford Movement and the Catholic Revival in the Church of England … honestly, I did not recognize the church that this House described on that occasion.”
I considered going, but the hotel cost in SA is crazy.
There are less expensive hotels than the one in the blurb for the conference. There are some within four miles that are 60 dollars a night, and still have rooms-I just checked Motel 6 at La Cantera Parkway.
RCIA is really for people who need baptism. Those who’re already validly baptised — esp. those who come with a presumed grounding in traditional catechesis — need comparitively little instruction to be ready for full reception.
I understand that it is, currently. However, given Pope Benedict’s motu proprio liberalizing the Classic form of the Roman Rite, one thinks that something of the order of a personal prelature could be given so that the Anglican-Use Liturgy and Anglican-Use Parishes (at least some), are brought into Catholic Dioceses in the U.K. under the current local Bishop.
In other words, since the Anglican Church is historically part of the Western Church, a sui juris status similar to the Maronite Catholic Church, or Chaldean Catholic Church is not of Apostolic Tradition. On the other hand, a personal prelature allows for structures within the Latin Church to bring Anglicans with their Liturgical Tradition back into the Latin/Western Church, without having a separate hierarchy, which many Anglicans who came into Full Communion during the period from 1992 to 1992 (Fr. Geldard, Prof. William Oddie, both who recently appeared with Marcus Grodi on EWTN) agreed with Cardinal Hume (Abp of Westminster at that time) would not be the way to go.
If I recall, a personal prelature was discussed as viable option, but not at that point in time. Perhaps the time has come for that option.
Regards
Hey Kosta50:
I think it would be great if Pope Benedict and Patriarch Bartholomew, and the MP Alexy, for the sake of inter Orthodox tensions (LOL), all get together and issue a statement saying Women’s ordination is move by the Anglican Communion that is an insurmountable obstacle to Full Eucharistic Communion.
Think the modernist and libs would have fun with that one.
As for thae woman “bishop” in your post, well at least she looks like a woman, some of these “womnyn” who want to be priestesses, bishopessess, look down right scary!!!!.
Regards and God Bless
Wow, I didn’t know that. (Lib B’s dreading the mass conversion) Makes you laugh right out loud. On some days there is good news.
Plus the price of gas is going down. This is a very good day indeed.
Source?
Welcome Home.
May God’s blessings be upon the new Catholic priests and bishops and all who are now praying for divine guidance and considering coming to the Catholic Church.
The issue is not so much of married people receiving Holy Orders, but of those who've received Holy Orders being allowed to marry.
The first alternative (married people receiving orders)has precedent in both the Latin and Eastern Church (as far as the diaconate and presbyterate). The second alternative (those who have received orders being allowed to marry) has never, ever been allowed.
The episcopate is a really different situation (I am not sure if there is any precedent in the last 1,000 years allowing a married man to be consecrated a bishop), but I bet there is something that might be able to work.
The biggest thing is that I hope that Rome consults with the Orthodox patriarchs prior to making any type of decision. The current moves with them are far too important to compromise for this issue.
Anglican Bishops will not be allowed to serve as Bishops in the Catholic Church, this is the practice of both West and East. What can happen is the Anglican Bishops getting ordained as Catholic Priests. Former Episcopal Bishops Steenson and Lipscomb were both recently approved by the U.S. Pastoral Provison to be ordained as Priests and should be ordained within the next year or 2.
On another note, the Mocow Patriarch and the Russian Orthdox Synod as issued a statement cleary pointing out the ordination of women as Bishops puts another major obstacle to Christian re-union.
Regards
I am sorry that I don’t have a direct source but I seem to recall this being referenced as a rumor making the rounds at Whitehall in an article out of London over a year ago.
johnnycap wrote:"Henry VIII is the Jimmy Carter of the sixteenth century in that his short sighted actions set in motion incredibly deep long term repercussions. "
9 posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:39:20 PM by johnnycap
Interesting analogy. He lusted in his heart, right?
Now, on the matter of the return of the real estate....
The Anglican Use Conference this weekend could not have come at a more appropriate and providential time. God’s planning is awesome!
Oh, golly, we should have done RCIA together then. I was a ROYAL pain in our class at the very liberal parish where we joined. Speaking the Truth, I called it.
I would also suggest that if Rome decides it will be accepting married Anglican bishops as bishops, there really isn’t anything more we Orthodox have to say to Rome.
What do you mean, Kolokotronis?
“What do you mean, Kolokotronis?”
I mean that if Rome allows these two Anglican bishops to be Roman bishops, however that might be accomplished short of their wives dying, Orthodoxy will have nothing more to say to Rome; the end of the dialogs and any chance for reunion.
*********************
Why would that be?
I have another question you may be able to answer. If these Bishops take their entire parishes into the Catholic Church, what provision might there be for those that might not want to join, and will the CofE go after them to keep the properties like the TEC has done in the US? I know we walked away from our former property—praise the Lord!
According to a poster at Stand Firm in Faith, Bishop Newton has said the Telegraph has exaggerated this story.
This is the only thing I have a problem with.
Some of these English Bishops are more liberal than the one we have here in the US
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