Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Pope: Other denominations not true churches
MSNBC ^ | July. 10, 2007

Posted on 07/11/2008 5:54:33 AM PDT by Between the Lines

Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II’s ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been “erroneous or ambiguous” and had prompted confusion and doubt.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, “Dominus Iesus,” which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy’s Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position.

“Christ ‘established here on earth’ only one church,” the document said. The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholic; notagain; quidestveritas
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-174 next last
Again.
1 posted on 07/11/2008 5:54:34 AM PDT by Between the Lines
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
"Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches."

But we shouldn't call out the errors of the Catholic church cause that's Catholic bashing......priceless.

2 posted on 07/11/2008 5:57:57 AM PDT by Hebrewbrother (Dissent - The Highest Form Of Patriotism.....source unknown...BTDMIAS!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
Yup, Jesus established a single church ~ in Jerusalem!

Other churches were established by disciples in various places. The Pope owns one of 'em.

Is there anything new in this?

3 posted on 07/11/2008 5:58:47 AM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Such a courageous leader.


4 posted on 07/11/2008 5:59:29 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
"One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic." These are basics of the Catholic religion. The Pope sounds he attended the catechism classes I did. The School Sisters of Notre Dame who taught me was primarily a German order, so it might just be.

As I was told more than once, "You are graduating from this school only through the grace of God and the mercy of the School Sisters of Notre Dame."

Course, in high school, it was "...through the grace of God and and the mercy of the Resurrectionist Fathers", so maybe that came in a newsletter and various people just picked it up.

5 posted on 07/11/2008 6:00:22 AM PDT by Bernard (If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember exactly what you said.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

how does he feel about hinduism, islam, judaism, buddhism...did i forget anything?

oh yeah, scientology.


6 posted on 07/11/2008 6:01:32 AM PDT by ken21 ( people die + you never hear from them again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Nooooooooooooooooooo! Not this again.


7 posted on 07/11/2008 6:03:04 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

>>The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.” I guess tracing back through the Anglican church does not count? Apostates....all of’em, apostates.


8 posted on 07/11/2008 6:04:51 AM PDT by servantboy777
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: servantboy777

The Amish and Mennonites all claim “apostolic sucession”; the Catholic church doesn’t recognize their claim but they make it anyway. My own church gets around the concept by claiming they are a recreation of the First Century church in Jerusalem.


9 posted on 07/11/2008 6:07:46 AM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Yeah Benny, well God says otherwise.


10 posted on 07/11/2008 6:10:28 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Well I’m gobsmacked!

< not really >


11 posted on 07/11/2008 6:11:02 AM PDT by kimmie7 (<<<---- Too surly for the hoarde.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: servantboy777
>> I guess tracing back through the Anglican church does not count? <<

The Anglician church was started by a fat lecherious King of England so he could get a divorce from his wife, so I would that doesn't count.

It may follow the basic traditions of the Catholic churcn, but the bishops and priests trace their authority to Henry VIII, who simply appointed himself supreme head of the Church of England on no one's authority.

12 posted on 07/11/2008 6:11:17 AM PDT by BillyBoy (Support Operation Chaos!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
The other communities “cannot be called ‘churches’ in the proper sense” because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ’s original apostles.

There's no reason why anybody should have to do that. the faith and practice of the churches are determined by God's Word, not some bogus "apostolic succession".

13 posted on 07/11/2008 6:11:54 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

The Pope needs to read the Bible.


14 posted on 07/11/2008 6:13:28 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Noted


15 posted on 07/11/2008 6:14:36 AM PDT by Col Freeper (FR is a smorgasbord of Conservative thoughts and ideas - dig in and enjoy it to its fullest!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

If this is said from true concern for my soul then I have no problem with it. However I have prayed faithfully and it has been clearly revealed to me that the church I am at is where God wants me to be right now. So I think I’ll need a little more convincing than an I said so from the Catholic leader.

I will continue to pray I’m where God wants me, and if I am led to the Catholic Church of Rome, I would go.


16 posted on 07/11/2008 6:15:40 AM PDT by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: trisham
Nooooooooooooooooooo! Not this again.

There is a rumor that this could become a yearly event.

17 posted on 07/11/2008 6:15:48 AM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: servantboy777
>> I guess tracing back through the Anglican church does not count? <<

The Anglician church was started by a fat lecherious King of England so he could get a divorce from his wife, so I would certainly say that doesn't count as "apostolic succession".

It may follow the basic traditions of the Catholic church, but the bishops and priests trace their authority to Henry VIII, who simply appointed himself supreme head of the Church of England on no one's authority but his own.

18 posted on 07/11/2008 6:16:35 AM PDT by BillyBoy (Support Operation Chaos!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
Once again I claim there is an anti-Christ sitting on the Throne of Peter in Rome.

I guess the idea of the Pax Romana is alive and well.

19 posted on 07/11/2008 6:17:06 AM PDT by Tao Yin (Hey, this thread isn't ecumenical)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
Pope: "Other denominations not true churches"

And the Hitler Youth wasn't the Boy Scouts

20 posted on 07/11/2008 6:21:25 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
There is a rumor that this could become a yearly event.

*****************

I believe it! :)

21 posted on 07/11/2008 6:23:24 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Not again. The byline is 2007.


22 posted on 07/11/2008 6:26:40 AM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hebrewbrother

The mistranslations, etc. were hashed out over a year ago. This is from last year.


23 posted on 07/11/2008 6:27:22 AM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: trisham; Between the Lines

>>> There is a rumor that this could become a yearly event. <<

No, between the lines simply doesn’t know what year this is.


24 posted on 07/11/2008 6:29:02 AM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines
it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

So Jesus is not enough? You must bow to the authority of Rome in order to get saved. Interesting little theory.

25 posted on 07/11/2008 6:30:26 AM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dangus; Between the Lines
No, between the lines simply doesn’t know what year this is.

*******************

Nobody's perfect. :)

26 posted on 07/11/2008 6:30:57 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

BREAKING NEWS: THE POPE IS CATHOLIC!

(It’d be nice if the news got to the muddleheads who imagine Rome has fundamentally changed for the better, BUT....)


27 posted on 07/11/2008 6:30:57 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dangus

“MSNBC News Services
updated 9:52 a.m. ET, Tues., July. 10, 2007”

No agenda there /s

The MSM is trying to defuse the uproar over the UCF student and that Myers who swore to desecrate the Eucharist.

How better than to bring up old news and create a furor whereby people would be less willing to defend the church against intolerance by creating a viewpoint of intolerance.


28 posted on 07/11/2008 6:31:11 AM PDT by OpusatFR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

I was fed this nonsense in the 60s as a non-Catholic student attending a Catholic private school in Nawlins so that I could get an education. I was required to attend religion classes and, when the instructor called on me to provide a different opinio as a non-Catholic, the other students would start mumbling stuff about me being an atheist, non-believer, etc., etc.

Like politicians who view politics as a means to grab power, the Catholic Church has tried to control religion as a means of power. The Pope is more than the leader and figurehead of the Catholic Church, in the Catholic religion, he is perceived to be the sole person on earth who has access to God.

I respect Catholics as much as I do those who practice other religions (with the exception of the cult of murder, oppression, cruelty and slvaery called Islam). However, on this issue, the Catholic Church remains rooted in the 4th century A.D.


29 posted on 07/11/2008 6:33:51 AM PDT by DustyMoment (FloriDUH - proud inventors of pregnant/hanging chads and judicide!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment

“The Pope is more than the leader and figurehead of the Catholic Church, in the Catholic religion, he is perceived to be the sole person on earth who has access to God.”

Really, unequivocally WRONG.

Everyone on earth has access to God.


30 posted on 07/11/2008 6:37:09 AM PDT by OpusatFR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: dangus; trisham
Seems that I don't know what the date is. I found this story under "top headlines' on the Christian Headlines website. I just presumed it was current and don't know why they posted it as a current headline.

Some days are like that for me.

31 posted on 07/11/2008 6:37:19 AM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment

Wouldn’t any true believer think that he was a member of the Church created by Our Savior? That to the extent others disagreed on basic doctrine they were in error?


32 posted on 07/11/2008 6:38:20 AM PDT by Mr. Lucky
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

It’s Friday. We’ll all get over it. :)


33 posted on 07/11/2008 6:38:50 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: trisham; dangus
Nobody's perfect. :)

So, you have seen my tagline. : )

34 posted on 07/11/2008 6:41:54 AM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

I have now. :)


35 posted on 07/11/2008 6:43:51 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Lucky
That to the extent others disagreed on basic doctrine they were in error?

That's just it, though. Doctrine isn't just something we come up with off the cuff. Doctrine has a source - the Word of God. Rome claims that its traditions are on par with Scripture, but (amusingly) does so on the basis that Scripture says so in II Thessalonians 2:15 (which it doesn't of course, the "traditions" Paul mentions were orally preached analogs to the written truths appearing in his epistles). However, no professing church has any authority apart from the Word of God - The Bible defines what "the church" even is. The Word of God is what gives churches their authority to teach and preach and conduct matters internally within their own membership - not "tradition" (which can mean anything, and HAS meant just about anything over the past 1600 years of Catholicism). The measure of whether a professing Christian is doctrinally correct or not correct has nothing to do with whether they agree or disagree with some denomination or group. It is measured by how their theology stacks up against the Bible as it is systematically exegeted.

36 posted on 07/11/2008 6:46:32 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus (Here they come boys! As thick as grass, and as black as thunder!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

Ol’ Ratzenberger should watch out. There are some militant Amish factions that are not above invading Vatican City over this.


37 posted on 07/11/2008 6:47:27 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (Guarding humanity against things that go bump in the night.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

“Seems that I don’t know what the date is. I found this story under “top headlines’

I checked the dates of their “top headlines” and the articles, except for the one about the pope are all current within June and July of 2008. Odd.

Not all your fault.


38 posted on 07/11/2008 6:48:23 AM PDT by OpusatFR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Hebrewbrother

Well I’d rather he say that than to try and say we’re all Christian brothers and sisters! At least that’s intellectually honest.

For whatever that’s worth!


39 posted on 07/11/2008 7:03:42 AM PDT by Terriergal ("I am ashamed that women are so simple To offer war where they should kneel for peace," Shakespeare)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

Yup, Jesus established a single church ~ in Jerusalem!
Other churches were established by disciples in various places. The Pope owns one of ‘em.


Good answer, Thank you!


40 posted on 07/11/2008 7:11:09 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: OpusatFR
Everyone on earth has access to God.

Especially we Baptists. Then again, we think all of the others are heathens too.

41 posted on 07/11/2008 7:12:35 AM PDT by Retired COB (Still mad about Campaign Finance Reform)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Lucky
Wouldn’t any true believer think that he was a member of the Church created by Our Savior?

Any true believer in Jesus is a member of the Church. That's by definition.

This is a basic point of confusion between Catholics and many other Christians. When I say that the RCC isn't the Church, that does not mean that I am trying to take the claim of Church for myself or my synod.

The "Church" is not an earthly institution, but the entire community of believers in Jesus. The Nicene Creed is a good example of that statement of faith.

That to the extent others disagreed on basic doctrine they were in error?

Errors will be burned away at the time of judgment. Errors do not kick you out of the Church.

Simple set theory can help here. Not everyone in the Roman Catholic Church is a true believer. This is true for all churches. Membership in a "church" does not qualify someone for membership in the "Church".

Similarly, there are true believers who are not part of the Roman Catholic Church.

How can the RCC be the Church, when parts of the RCC are not part of the Church and when parts of the Church are not part of the RCC?

42 posted on 07/11/2008 7:13:28 AM PDT by Tao Yin (Hey, this thread isn't ecumenical)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Alex Murphy
Perhaps it's time to reconsider reinstating a certain part of the WCF.
43 posted on 07/11/2008 7:13:30 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Between the Lines

*chuckle* LOL!

That just switched my attitude from “I can’t BELIEVE these idiots!” to “Yeah, I’ve had days like that!”


44 posted on 07/11/2008 7:13:45 AM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Retired COB

( -;


45 posted on 07/11/2008 7:14:43 AM PDT by OpusatFR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: SeaHawkFan; Between the Lines
The Pope needs to read the Bible.

They probably lost it.

46 posted on 07/11/2008 7:15:45 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, Am I good enough to be a Christian? rather Am I good enough not to be?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Hebrewbrother; ken21; trisham; muawiyah; kimmie7; BillyBoy; SeaHawkFan; Col Freeper; DustyMoment; ..

A year ago (when the story first came out), the lamestream media mistranslates Benedict’s words, then attacked him for his use of language... that he didn’t use. But “conservative” Christians all over Freeperdom suddently trusted the media with all their hearts, minds and souls.

“Defect” doesn’t mean in Latin what it means in English. In English, it means “miscreant.” In Latin, it means, “unjoined.” “Defected” would be a better translation that “defective,” except THAT would create an unintended military metaphor akin to treachery. The reality is the Orthodoz are more in like someone who leaves the Indiana Civil-war militia for the Illinois militia than someone who has deserted or joined the Alabama militia.

The word translated as “church” means “assembled.” The Pope was merely asserting the far less belligerent assertion that Protestant “assemblies” aren’t in fact “assembled” together, in contrast to the Protestant notion that there exists some sort of invisible assembly which includes a Christian in an Anglican pew to a Christian in a Baptist true more than truly that to the Episcopagan next to him.


Gambler: “I gotta be honest with you... I saw the game this afternoon, and I knew he was going to make the play”

Drunk: “So did I; I just never thought he’d do it again!”


48 posted on 07/11/2008 7:27:20 AM PDT by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dangus

Well done, dangus.


49 posted on 07/11/2008 7:31:20 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
It is measured by how their theology stacks up against the Bible as it is systematically exegeted.

Which is to claim for the individual what is collectively claimed by many denominations. But not, it seems, the Episcopal Church or the Presbyterian Church USA, who seem to have dumped Scripture as a standard.

50 posted on 07/11/2008 7:33:03 AM PDT by RobbyS (Ecce homo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-174 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson