max behrman
Posted on 07/17/2008 6:14:23 AM PDT by NYer
max behrman
The UCF student who removed a Eucharist from a Catholic Campus Ministry mass and made national headlines is still caught in the wake of his actions.
Webster Cook, who is a Student Government Association senator, is now facing an impeachment investigation by the rest of the Senate as a result of an affidavit filed against him due to the incident.
In response to the complaints filed against him, Cook brought hazing charges against Catholic Campus Ministry, filing with the Office of Student Conduct regarding the physical force used against him. The charges were formally dropped yesterday.
The Legislative, Judicial and Rules Committee met yesterday and voted 5-2-0 to send the complaint affidavit against Cook to SGA Senate, where it will be investigated.
During the meeting, the committee members disagreed over the significance that religion was playing into the situation. SGA Sen. Ben Collard said that the circumstances of taking the Eucharist were only hyped because it was a religious symbol.
"Should he really be impeached because he didn't eat a cracker?" Collard said.
SGA Official Anthony Furbush filed the complaint affidavit against Cook on Monday.
"I'd like to see him resign and stop wasting people's time," Furbush said after the meeting.
Cook and a friend decided to attend Mass on June 29.
"We had been there for about 45 to 50 minutes before Communion took place," Cook said. "I explained to my friend that he should not accept Communion because he is not Catholic."
Cook's friend accompanied him to the altar without accepting Communion, but Cook was going to bring the Eucharist to his seat so that his friend could see it.
"I thought I was avoiding a problem," Cook said.
Cook said the woman giving out the Eucharist grasped his elbow, and a woman next to him ordered him to eat it. According to Catholic Campus Ministry worker Michelle Ducker's statement in the affidavit, Cook pretended to consume it.
When Cook returned to his seat, Ducker realized that he had not eaten it and moved toward him. Cook said that Ducker told him that if he did not eat it, she was going to make a huge scene. According to Cook, she tried to remove the Eucharist from his hand, and he asked her to stop touching him.
UCF Associate Campus Minister Joshua Swallows asked Cook and his friend to leave. Cook said he was insulted and demanded an apology. Swallows said in his statement that he was following policy to make sure that the Eucharist was not going to be used for devil worship.
Cook and his friend attempted to explain their intention, but Swallows informed them that they had to leave.
Cook left with the Eucharist in his pocket.
Cook said he wanted an apology and he was holding the Eucharist as collateral. He gave the Eucharist back a week later without receiving an apology.
This incident has erupted in not only the UCF community, but also nationally. The Catholic Campus Ministry was extremely upset by Cook's taking of the Eucharist.
Rev. Peyton Johnson, the pastor of Lakeside Presbyterian Church in Tarpon Springs, who also has a doctorate degree in theology, explained the significance of the Eucharist by describing transubstantiation.
"In transubstantiation, Catholics actually see the elements of Communion, being the bread and cup, as the blood and body of Jesus Christ. We consume him," Johnson said. "The elements take on the being of Jesus and deserve all respect and awe."
The Catholic Church views taking the Eucharist as stealing the body of Christ. The Church typically does not permit the Eucharists to be taken away from the altar in fear of dropping or desecrating its holiness.
"Most Protestants see Communion as representative of Christ's body and blood, which differs from Catholic views, but all Catholics and Protestants believe in the very real presence of Jesus during Communion and hold it with high reverence," Johnson said.
Cook said the story keeps changing from the Catholic side.
"The women claimed they did not grab me when speaking to Kerry Welch, director of the Office of Student Involvement, which conflicted with the previous report filed," Cook said. "It's wrong to initiate physical force against others based on assumptions."
Since this incident, Cook said he has received hundreds of e-mails through both Facebook and his SGA account that pose as threats.
"In one day, I got about 70 messages, none to my face," Cook said. "They're coming from all over, not just the UCF community."
The SGA Senate will meet at 9 p.m. today for their normal meeting in the Student Union, which will now include Cook's impeachment investigation.
The saga continues ping!
What a meathead.
If he knew he couldn’t take the eucharist because he wasn’t Catholic, why didn’t he just stay in his pew?
This guy sounds like a wiseacre who has little or no respect for relgion.
“relgion” s/b “religion”
I have never met anyone who has little or no respect for religion. I have met several people who have no regard for other people's religions. Some Atheists are among the worst in this respect.
Incidents like this and the obnoxious Professor Meyers demonstrate why we need groups like the Catholic League.
this young man has no respect for the rights of others....sad for him.
When Cook returned to his seat, Ducker realized that he had not eaten it and moved toward him. Cook said that Ducker told him that if he did not eat it, she was going to make a huge scene. According to Cook, she tried to remove the Eucharist from his hand, and he asked her to stop touching him.
This may have had an entirely different outcome if the person giving Communion was a burly 6'3" priest.
I’m concerned that he was commanded to consume the Host.
Years ago, my own son saw someone pocket the Eucharist. He followed the man out of the Church and demanded that the man give the Host to him. The man declared that he had consumed it, which was a lie. Before my son could do anything further to retrieve the Host, the man ran off. By the time any other person could be called to help out, the man was out of sight.
Demanding that the Host be consumed may also be a kind of desecration-—perhaps a more knowledgable person can help me regarding that issue.
Somehow it seems to me that it would be better for the Eucharistic minister to retrieve the Host if possible.
That’s true - I didn’t think of it quite that way.
Frankly, Bill Donohue is an embarrasment. He is like the sweaty, red faced Irish Catholic version of Jesse Jackson.
I think you misunderstood.
The non Catholic did not take it the Catholic did. Wrong meathead.
From the article
Cook’s friend accompanied him to the altar without accepting Communion, but Cook was going to bring the Eucharist to his seat so that his friend could see it.
Some one quick grab a ruler this boy has earned a good hand slapping.
Back to Catechism for you son and invite your friend too!
Cook was Catholic. he went to get the Eucharist, but he decided to bring it with him to show his non-catholic friend who went to the Mass with him.
that is his story apparently.
although Cook should have followed the rules, but I am not convinced that the boy intended to desecrate the Host. I think he broke the rules and took it back to the pew and some people over reacted, thinking he was taking it for immoral purposes, and then he over reacted and took it out of the Church, which is really wrong. He should have followed the rules and asked the Priest to show his friend either an unconsecrated wafer or a consecrated Host after the Mass.
We need more scary, ruler-wielding, knuckle slapping nuns around these days.
Thanks!
*******************
LOL! I'm all for that! :)
It was an issue of religion and this guy's bad manners until this person committed battery. Florida code, appropriate text:
784.03 Battery ... The offense of battery occurs when a person ... Actually and intentionally touches ... another person against the will of the other ... a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
Stealing the Eucharist under false pretenses is theft-by-deception. And regardless of his supposed intentions, that was what it looked like, and the usher or whoever was taking reasonable steps to thwart a theft.
Moreover, his story has changed so much that I'm inclined to think that he intended to steal the Host from the git-go. Any faithful Catholic who really wanted to show a friend what was going on would introduce him to the priest in the sacristy after Mass.
It was given to him with no intention of ever getting it back. If a non-Catholic takes it and eats it, are they going to forcefully pump his stomach? The guy violated the rules, but that isn't a crime. Battery is.
Theft-by-deception occurs when somebody is given something for a specific purpose, but diverts it for some other use. Easiest example: I give you $10 to put in the collection plate, but you pocket it instead. It was "given to [you] with no intention of ever getting it back," but you still stole it.
At our parish the Knights of Columbus have volunteered to act as observers. We stand several feet from the communion line and make sure that each person that receives consumes.
We have had several occasions where we had to "step in"
Every time one of these threads is posted I let people know, hoping that they contact the K's of C or another parish group to pick up the idea.
If he believed this then he wouldn't even dream of doing what he did.
The guy looks gay. He’s probably just bitter about his sexuality.
It was given to him with he intention that as a faithful Catholic he would be consuming the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of His Lord and Saviour Jesus.
It was not given to him with the expectation that he would take it back to the pew and show it to someone, or that he would leave the Church with it holding it hostage for a week.
Okay, he doesn’t know because he isn’t Catholic.
He’s just a real, BIG jerk. God have Mercy.
It is presumed that if one goes up to receive Holy Communion that one is in a state of grace to receive Holy Communion.
In your case it was given to the collection plate with the person as the carrier, and the carrier stole it. In this case it was given to him, period.
Yes, it was poor taste and even insulting. I would tell him he’s not welcome anymore and have him arrested for trespass if he ever showed up again. But it wasn’t a crime. Battery is.
Not to me, or a lot of other traditional Catholics.
"The church feels that I'm the problem here," Cook said. "The problem is actually that this is a publicly-funded religious institution. Through student government here, we fund them through an activity and service, so they're receiving student money."Cook is upset more than $40,000 in student fees have been allocated to support religious organizations on campus for the 2008-2009 school year, according to student government records. He denied he is holding the Eucharist hostage to protest that support.
WFTV Story as discussed in this FR thread.
It's curious how this little detail disappeared from every subsequent story on the incident. EVERY last one.
Write the reporter and point this out!
If I give you a family heirloom with the stipulation that you keep and preserve it for your children, but you turn around and sell it on EBay, you just stole it.
This was not a 'gift' with no strings attached. It was an entrustment for a specific purpose.
Battery requires an "offensive" touching. In law, that doesn't mean that the person touched is "offended", it means that the touching was without justification or excuse.
There is clear justification and excuse here. The little twerp's actions, whatever their motive, appeared to be a theft of the Host, which unfortunately is usually for Satanic or magical purposes. The usher was justified in attempting to stop an apparent theft.
Hey, don’t get me wrong. I love the Church. I just don’t think Catholics need an NAACP
nevertheless, I am glad he has taken the initiative in trying to stop that crazy professor guy from desecrating a consecrated Host.
But then again, that professor is only doing it to attract notoriety. He is baiting the hook with the Eucharist in order to attract ridicule to the Catholic Church. He is trying to make Catholics look like Muslim extremists. He wants us to make a martyr of him
“It is presumed that if one goes up to receive Holy Communion that one is in a state of grace...”
Yes, that is the presumption and I understand that.
However, if that is actually so, then they shouldn’t/wouldn’t walk away with the Eucharist without consuming it. At that point, it can become a serious concern—especially if they put the Eucharist in their pocket, as happened in the one case I mentioned.
It’s a situation like that where I am concerned about forcing the person to receive the Holy Communion.
If I give you a family heirloom with the stipulation that you keep and preserve it for your children, but you turn around and sell it on EBay, you just stole it.
That sounds like part of civil estate law, not criminal law.
I don’t think comparisons to an extortionist like Jesse Jackson are fair. I also disagree with the comparison to NAACP, which attempts to influence government policy.
The Catholic League is an anti-defamation league. Not THE ADL, but a Catholic ADL.
I refer you back to the applicable part of Florida law: "784.03 Battery ... The offense of battery occurs when a person ... Actually and intentionally touches ... another person against the will of the other."
Perhaps you are referring to this tract from Corinthians.
"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord" (1 Cor. 11:27)
I’m concerned that he was commanded to consume the Host.
When someone presents themself to receive communion, it is the responsibility of the EMHC to ensure the consecrated host is consumed. Prior to communion in the hand, this was not an issue. Now, things have changed. The onus falls on the communicant, not the EMHC.
This is not going to trial lol. The kid is wrong and he knows it. Even the liberal SGA at his university may punish him or impeach him.
The fact is that he is a Catholic who knows exactly what the Eucharist means and is to Catholics. He violated the accepted tradition and in effect, stole the host wafer. If it were to go to trial he would lose, because his intent is made clear in his speech prior to the event and after the event. He was trying to make a point. It is clear.
Since by any reasonable measure he was stealing, the person attempting to take the Eucharist back was perfectly in her right to do so. Of course it would take objectivity and reasonableness do accept that.
Think of it as the Catholic equivalent to the Jewish Defense League. And, yes, Bill Donohue has done an awesome job of defending the Catholic Church. Why the Catholic League? From their web site:
The Catholic League is the nation's largest Catholic civil rights organization. Founded in 1973 by the late Father Virgil C. Blum, S.J., the Catholic League defends the right of Catholics – lay and clergy alike – to participate in American public life without defamation or discrimination.
Motivated by the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment, the Catholic League works to safeguard both the religious freedom rights and the free speech rights of Catholics whenever and wherever they are threatened.
Absolutely. Harvard professor Arthur Schlesinger, Sr. once observed that prejudice against the Catholic Church was "the deepest bias in the history of the American people." Yale professor Peter Viereck commented that "Catholic baiting is the anti-Semitism of the liberals."
And today's brand of anti-Catholicism is more virulent and more pervasive than ever before in American history. While it is true that Catholics as individuals have made progress in securing their rights, the degree of hostility exhibited against the Catholic Church is appalling. Quite simply, Catholic bashing has become a staple of American society.
The above list is hardly inclusive of all Catholic League activities, but it does provide some idea of what we do. In essence, the Catholic League monitors the culture, acting as a watchdog agency and defender of the civil rights of all Catholics. Much of what we do is reported in our monthly journal.
I agree in both counts, except that he doesn't appear to realize he was wrong because he hasn't apologized and given the Host back.
He violated the accepted tradition
And that's all he did. I didn't see any law against not eating the Host in the Florida criminal code.
“And that’s all he did. I didn’t see any law against not eating the Host in the Florida criminal code.”
There is not a law for every single act committed, however, the law is still applied. Reasonableness.
I'm not sure of the policy of the Catholic church, or even of this particular parish within it, but I have to disagree with this thought. The Eucharist is presented specifically for the consumption of the faithful, and those that ajudge themselves unworthy because of sin are enjoined from partaking. The sacrament of absolution is a precursor to the sacrament of communion for a reason.
By accepting the Host without intent to follow the procedural script of the Mass, this student deliberately sinned against the Host. When he was told he needed to follow the normative bahavior of immediate consumption, he rebelled. When the server (I may have mixed up the names/roles) tried to retrieve the Host after the student returned to his seat, the student protested, specifically saying something like "Stop touching me".
In the Catholic church, to the best of my understanding, the consecrated Host is specifically entrusted to the Priest and/or specially trained servers until such time as it is dispensed and consumed by the faithful. Ensuring the consumption follows dispensing is one of the duties of the duly entrusted caretakers.
JMO. YMMV.
He doesn’t embarrass me either. He just tells it like it is. I appreciate anybody who fights the good fight everyday!
>> He is like the sweaty, red faced Irish Catholic version of ...
Are you a bigot?
And I already looked through the Florida criminal code, can't find anything that applies. This isn't Canada, offending people is not yet illegal.
Personally, I think if they were going to do battery they should have just gone all the way. Beat him up, take the Host back, and wait to be acquitted by the local jury (I'd vote not guilty) if some dumb prosecutor actually pursued the case.
“And I already looked through the Florida criminal code, can’t find anything that applies. This isn’t Canada, offending people is not yet illegal.....battery...”
You keep repeating yourself. It’s not battery. His intent was to steal. His motivation, as he states, was to make a political point against the Church.
You can't just read the Code, or just one Code section, and get the whole picture. If it were that easy, all the lawyers would be selling apples on the street corners.
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