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The Great Desecration [Professor boasts of desecrating Eucharist and Koran]
Pharyngula Blog ^ | 7/24/08 | PZ Myers

Posted on 07/24/2008 8:01:47 PM PDT by AHerald

I pierced it with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus's tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash, followed by the classic, decorative items of trash cans everywhere, old coffeegrounds and a banana peel. My apologies to those who hoped for more, but the worst I can do is show my unconcerned contempt.

By the way, I didn't want to single out just the cracker, so I nailed it to a few ripped-out pages from the Qur'an and The God Delusion. They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet. You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanity's knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.

(Excerpt) Read more at scienceblogs.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Islam; Worship
KEYWORDS: atheist; catholic; desecration; eucharist; flourh2osalt; flowerh2osalt; particularjudgment
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1 posted on 07/24/2008 8:01:48 PM PDT by AHerald
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To: AHerald

Dude. He tortures crackers. Somebody get a net


2 posted on 07/24/2008 8:03:56 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: AHerald
If he doesn't believe it's the body of Christ he's free do what he wants. I believe it is and would not do this. Giving this lonely soul his fifteen minutes of fame is what he wants. He can't fill his soul with Christ so he uses the media attention.

So be it.

3 posted on 07/24/2008 8:04:58 PM PDT by raybbr (You think it's bad now - wait till the anchor babies start to vote!)
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To: AHerald

Where’s the fatwa? Where’s the outrage? Where’s the CAIR denouncement?

Oh, he’s a Leftist?

Nevermind...


4 posted on 07/24/2008 8:05:28 PM PDT by Old Sarge (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: AHerald

Not the Koran...

Ok, to hell with the rest.... time to riot, loot, pillage and rape.


5 posted on 07/24/2008 8:06:30 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

“Not the Koran” indeed.

He’s gonna be sorrry he messed with a Koran.

Does he actually conduct research in biology and give lectures in between committing unnatural acts on wafers and typing hate-crazed entries on his blog?

Does the University of Minnesota have an Islamic students association?


6 posted on 07/24/2008 8:10:20 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget
No doubt there's some risk to him if his address ever gets out.

Bet he's got a tremendous collection of kiddy porn on his PC too ~ guys who are fruitcakes do that you know.

7 posted on 07/24/2008 8:10:32 PM PDT by muawiyah (We need a "Gastank For America" to win back Congress)
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To: AHerald
Few thoughts:

1) You can buy the Qur'an anywhere, but you need to actually steal a consecrated Eucharist. I suppose you could get in line for it at a Church but to take it and not be a Catholic and do something mischievous with it is to commit a fraud. It's just understood that when you accept it (as is mentioned in all the missiles) that you are going to consume it and are entitled to consume it.

2) This is going to be a good demonstration of the difference between a true and right religion (Catholicism) and theocratic Fascism (Radical Islam) when you see the Church ask for people to pray for this man and you see the Islamofascists murder him, ala Pym Fortune.

3) Anyone want to wager the guy believes in man-made Global Warming? Or Darwinian Evolution? Thinks for himself my ass.

8 posted on 07/24/2008 8:11:41 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: AHerald
Jimmy Akin weighs in:P. Z. Myers Must Be Fired:

Instead, P. Z. Myers surreptitiously obtained and then desecrated something that is held most sacred by numerous individuals. He went out of his way to offend, to provoke the most deeply held sentiments of others, and he did so in full knowledge of what he was doing, as witnessed by the fact that he complains repeatedly on his blog about all of the outraged complaints he has been receiving from Catholics via e-mail.

In desecrating what Catholics hold most sacred--and what Muslims hold sacred as well--P. Z. Myers has fundamentally compromised himself as an educator.

He has made himself unsuitable for employment as an educator.

In particular, he has made himself unsuitable for employment as an educator at a state-run school, such as the University of Minnesota Morris.

It would be one thing if an employee of a private school--say, Bob Jones University--had desecrated the Eucharist. But state schools have a special responsibility to the citizens of the state to employ educators who will be respectful in their conduct towards the students, parents, alumni, and citizens of the state--including the Catholic and Muslim ones.

P. Z. Myers has demonstrated that he will go out of his way to offend the sensibilities of anybody who holds anything sacred, to treat whatever they hold sacred with public contempt. The problem thus is not limited to Catholics and Muslims. Since, in Myers own words, "Nothing must be held sacred," and since he is willing to desecrate anything that others do hold sacred, the university must conclude that Myers is willing not only to outrage Catholic and Muslim students, parents, alumni, and citizens but members of any other group as well.

 

Myers is thus incapable of effectively carrying out his mission as an educator and his position must be terminated.

He also is in violation of the University of Minnesota Code of Conduct, which holds that faculty members "must be committed to the highest ethical standards of conduct" (II:2) and that "Ethical conduct is a fundamental expectation for every community member. In practicing and modeling ethical conduct, community members are expected to: act according to the highest ethical and professional standards of conduct [and] be personally accountable for individual actions" (III:1).

It also stresses that faculty members must "Be Fair and Respectful to Others. The University is committed to tolerance, diversity, and respect for differences. When dealing with others, community members are expected to: be respectful, fair, and civil . . . avoid all forms of harassment . . . [and] threats . . . [and] promote conflict resolution."

P. Z. Myers has done none of these things. He is in fundamental breach of the University of Minnesota's Code of Conduct and must be discharged.

To voice your opinion on this subject, contact the offices of the president and the chancellor:

President Robert H. Bruininks
202 Morrill Hall
100 Church Street S.E.
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN 55455

Via phone: 612-626-1616
Via fax: 612-625-3875
Via e-mail: upres@umn.edu

Chancellor Jacqueline Johnson
309 Behmler Hall
600 East 4th Street
Morris, MN 56267

320-589-6020
E-mail: grussing@morris.umn.edu


9 posted on 07/24/2008 8:17:39 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: mbraynard
You can buy the Qur'an anywhere

Never occurred to me, but wouldn't it be funny if people went into bookstores and bracketed copies of the koran with a recipe book for pork and a copy of the Torah? Discretely of course...

Muslim mobs deface Bibles all the time... Not much of a justification, but bracketing a Koran with a Torah and a pork recipe book is far less than burning copies of the Bible and screaming epithets about how Christian women and children deserve to be raped and killed at the top of ones lungs.

10 posted on 07/24/2008 8:18:45 PM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: mbraynard

oh please..... do us a favor and look at a teacup poodle next to a great dane and drop one eensy bit of what you stated.

Other than that... spot on.

Never mind MRSA or even worse... the even more resistant evolved staphs.


11 posted on 07/24/2008 8:20:18 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: AHerald
This is what I posted on his blog: You don't have a problem with religion, you have a problem with Freedom and what people choose to do with it. Individuals are free to exercise religion as they see fit, particularly when it doesn't impose anything on you.

It is true that the Church does engage in public policy issues as an organization of individual citizens collected under the banner of shared belief, petitioning the government for certain laws, etc., which *might* impose on your life somehow.

But rather than engaging in debate or protest against the public policy issues that may affect you, you instead steal property from the Church and desecrate it.

While you could more reasonable object to the Church being involved in a public policy process, you instead target for ridicule and desecration the Eucharist which is stolen and are, in effect, assaulting the individually chosen beliefs of fellow humans for no other reason than to express your own hatred for their self-determination and for free expression.

We could also assume that you are smart enough to know that this is not a way to open people eyes to the mistaken ways of their beliefs. I guess you lacked the sophistry and semi-intellectual capabilities of Dawkins.

But you aren't smart enough to realize that this was a great way for you to get yourself killed by our less tolerant brothers, the Muslim Fundamentalists (see Pim Fortuyn) - but at least we Catholics will pray for you.

12 posted on 07/24/2008 8:28:33 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: mbraynard
Anyone want to wager the guy believes in man-made Global Warming? Or Darwinian Evolution? Thinks for himself my ass.

Good observation. I had similar thoughts on reading his closing remarks, overflowing with self-reverence, where he calls us to look at the apart from our "self-satisfied ignorance" and look at our world with "fresh eyes and a questioning mind."

Funny how it seems to be that, for Myer's and his ilk, their definition of what constitutes an open mind and questioning mind pretty much always bears a striking resemblance to themselves. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind.

13 posted on 07/24/2008 8:29:07 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: coconutt2000

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=pig+bbq+recipe+book&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd&cid=1287342989383880283

the pig bracket?


14 posted on 07/24/2008 8:30:10 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

I don’t get your point.


15 posted on 07/24/2008 8:30:32 PM PDT by mbraynard (You are the Republican Party. See you at the precinct meeting.)
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To: Salvation; NYer

PING


16 posted on 07/24/2008 8:30:53 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: mbraynard

I had to read the post twice, then I got it. The poster was objecting to your classificaction of Darwinism as pseudoscience, equal to Anthropogenic global warming.


17 posted on 07/24/2008 8:32:41 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: mbraynard

Of course not, but we can disagree on just one point. On the rest we are 100% agreed.

Btw, the Kansas school board is hiring ;-)


18 posted on 07/24/2008 8:33:12 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: AHerald

A man rips up pieces of paper, and defiles a cracker. Why should a rational human being such as myself care?


19 posted on 07/24/2008 8:34:57 PM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: patton

Anthropogenic? sheesh.... just call it man made. For intellect to have any value it has to be able to be understood by the common man.... ie. public school graduates.


20 posted on 07/24/2008 8:36:16 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

Anyone who sees a conflict between Intelligen Design and Darwinism, does not understand the concept of a genetic algorithm.


21 posted on 07/24/2008 8:37:16 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: Clemenza

Technically, it’s not a cracker, it’s a wafer...but why should I expect a scientist would know that...


22 posted on 07/24/2008 8:39:55 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

ok, man-made global warming is a farce; evolution is a design feature.

Having said all that, were I a better Catholic, I would pray for the misguided professor. But, I am a sinner, and a bad catholic, so I will let God deal with him.

The Muslims, on the other hand, will probably kill him.


23 posted on 07/24/2008 8:40:36 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: patton

Or sees more. This is not an argument to have. I will not excogitate your faith if you do not question my grasp.


24 posted on 07/24/2008 8:42:26 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: Boagenes
Thanks for the correction. I've always heard that all wafers were crackers, but not all crackers were wafers (many actually being "biscuits"). I'll have to defer to the good folks at the National Biscuit Company, I guess.

Nevertheless, most of the American population doesn't fetishize the so called "eucharist." Hocus pocus by any other name:

"The origins of the term remain obscure. According to the Oxford English Dictionary the term originates from hax pax max Deus adimax, a pseudo-Latin phrase used as a magic formula by conjurors[1]. Some believe it originates from a parody of the Roman Catholic liturgy of the eucharist, which contains the phrase 'Hoc est enim corpus meum.'"

25 posted on 07/24/2008 8:44:35 PM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: patton

Rushdie lonely no longer, and as a bonus, a catoonist in their midst. ;-)


26 posted on 07/24/2008 8:45:22 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

Excogitate away. When did you run out of thoughts, anyway?


27 posted on 07/24/2008 8:45:50 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: Clemenza
A man rips up pieces of paper, and defiles a cracker.Why should a rational human being such as myself care?

Maybe you should have put that human reason to work before you chose to post your snide, dismissive public insult.

To think that your reason could have led you to chose, in an act of charity and respect for the deeply held beliefs of others, not to hit the Post button ...

28 posted on 07/24/2008 8:47:19 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: AHerald
I myself do not steal communion wafers, fly the swastika, flush the koran, etc. because I have no reason to, and such acts would agitate folks who I really have no desire to offend (including members of my own family).

Nevertheless, I will call a wafer/cracker what it is, and remind you that while your faith may believe that it is magically transformed into the body of Christ, most of us on this planet see it as just a flour-based food product, nothing more, nothing less. I respect your right to believe in what you believe, but don't think I have any obligation to genuflect towards Rome, Mecca, or Jerusalem.

29 posted on 07/24/2008 8:51:23 PM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: AHerald

Don’t be so fast to take insult - he may have honest doubts. Many people do.

Why don’t you try reason, instead?


30 posted on 07/24/2008 8:52:00 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: patton

Fine.... Darwinian evolution is a fact. Some point of generation of life is not known.

Intelligent Design (ID) is a joke. It is based upon failed beliefs shifting to allow the paradigm not to shift.

Some people or groups or beliefs think they know more than God. God knows. They don’t. They learn and adjust. Some kick in their heels and get to make up new rationalizations as to why they were wrong.


31 posted on 07/24/2008 8:52:17 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

Now, if you or I can write code to evolve, why can’t God?

Do you presume to know more than God?

And wouldn’t a piece of genetic code, that sucessfully evolved for a billion years or so, be considered a very intelligent design?

I don’t see a conflict. God wrote code, things evolved.


32 posted on 07/24/2008 8:57:27 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: mbraynard

That post was full of things extremely well said. Thank you for those well chosen and logical words.


33 posted on 07/24/2008 9:00:02 PM PDT by blackd77
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To: Clemenza

You have no obligation to perform any religious observation that you do not believe in, and you are smart to avoid offending others.

I agree 100%.

Do you hold any religious beliefs, if I may ask?


34 posted on 07/24/2008 9:00:35 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: patton

no... actually God set constants.

Constants defined reality.

Reality allowed matter.

Matter allowed energy and mass to be available.

mass and energy and that thing we can describe but dont understand .... you know.... gravity..... allowed it to stick together and get energetic

etc.


35 posted on 07/24/2008 9:02:36 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: patton

I am open to the idea of a creator, in the sense of Aquinas’s “prime mover” (although I find several flaws in Tommasso’s actual theory), but can neither prove nor disprove it. I do not believe in a god/gods that “intervene” in the affairs of men.


36 posted on 07/24/2008 9:04:02 PM PDT by Clemenza (No Comment)
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To: AHerald

It must be really special to know everything and, at the same time, know that every one else is a fool.


37 posted on 07/24/2008 9:04:36 PM PDT by Rembrandt (We would have won Viet Nam w/o Dim interference.)
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To: AHerald; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

38 posted on 07/24/2008 9:07:09 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Clemenza
I respect your right to believe in what you believe, but don't think I have any obligation to genuflect towards Rome, Mecca, or Jerusalem.

Straw man. No one's asking you to genuflect to anything. I've no interest in your assent to Catholic teaching on the Eucharist. The issue at hand is not whether or not the Eucharist is what Catholics say that it is. The issue is the intentional public desecration of that which others hold to be sacred. Stripped away from any debate about the merits of religious beliefs, what Myer's has done here is a gross violation of simple common civility in the public arena. And that, to answer your initial question is why this issue should matter to "rational human beings" like yourself.

39 posted on 07/24/2008 9:09:02 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: Clemenza

there is a constant in the universe which is escaping me right now that has 16,000,000 digits to the right of the decimal or so, and one to the right or left and the universe would be impossible and there is no known reason for it for it can vary hugely in the math models. All the others we have discovered can vary as much as 3% to 5% and things would still be as they are.

Prime mover indeed.


40 posted on 07/24/2008 9:09:03 PM PDT by LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget (Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes)
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To: AHerald
Okay. I'm a Prottie. I don't believe that little cracker is the actual body of Christ. It's symbolic. BUT...this first angered me because of this person's absolute hatefulness. Then, pity took over. Pity and profound sadness. I hope he repents before its too late. Not of desecrating a cracker (please don't flame me Catholics, I mean no disrespect to you) but of turning his back on the One who gave His life for us all.

I am the wretch the song refers to.

41 posted on 07/24/2008 9:12:04 PM PDT by kimmie7 (<<<---- Too surly for the hoarde.)
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To: kimmie7
Then, pity took over. Pity and profound sadness. I hope he repents before its too late. Not of desecrating a cracker (please don't flame me Catholics, I mean no disrespect to you) but of turning his back on the One who gave His life for us all.

Nice post. Agreed.

42 posted on 07/24/2008 9:15:16 PM PDT by AHerald ("Be faithful to God ... do not bother about the ridicule of the foolish." - St. Pio of Pietrelcina)
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To: Clemenza

The nuns taught me, “God helps those that help themselves.”

Perhaps you are saying the same thing.

Many great men have attempted to prove or disprove the idea of God, after St. Thomas - I am not one of them.

I used to lack all faith, for good and rational reasons. For one thing, I understand and admit why the “idea” of God is valuable to the human species - it is a defense mechanism against stress.

The typical human is absolutely terrified by the very idea of entropy.

I don’t mean chaos, I mean entropy.

It scares the hell out of people.

And humans, like all animals, can literally die of stress.

Religion is an immediate resolution to that problem - “If you go to church on sunday, and asteroid won’t fall on your house!”

“Well, one fell on Fred’s house...”

“SEE! Proves my point! He missed church last Sunday!”

“He was in the pew next to you.”

“Yeah, but he didn’t mean it!”

So, yeah, I get it.

But the stress of not believing is still going to kill you.


43 posted on 07/24/2008 9:18:03 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: LesbianThespianGymnasticMidget

You ever figure out gavity, ping me to it.

Better yet, go hide - you life won’t be worth a plug nickel.


44 posted on 07/24/2008 9:24:00 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: kimmie7

How can you believe he gave his life for us all, and at the same time, not believe what he said?


45 posted on 07/24/2008 9:32:04 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: Clemenza
Why should a rational human being such as myself care?

Well, the fact that you took the time to look over the article and type a post shows that either you care or you are irrational. Think about it.

46 posted on 07/24/2008 9:35:27 PM PDT by Between the Lines (I am very cognizant of my fallibility, sinfulness, and other limitations.)
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To: Between the Lines

Or maybe, just questioning. People have doubts, that is part of the game.

Heck, I spent a couple of hours this week arguing over the translation of just one verse in Genesis. It was very informative.

Should we not? Should we not look to original sources? Should we not question, and ask, why?

I certainly will. So shoot me.


47 posted on 07/24/2008 9:45:15 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: patton

I’m not going to play that game.

I have Catholic friends. I was raised around Catholicism and understand it for the most part. But from my teaching and my study of His Word, I do not agree with some of the very basic beliefs of the RC faith.


48 posted on 07/24/2008 9:50:11 PM PDT by kimmie7 (<<<---- Too surly for the hoarde.)
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To: Between the Lines

Here is the beginning and end of it:

Mulieri quoque dixit: Multiplicabo ærumnas tuas, et conceptus tuos: in dolore paries filios, et sub viri potestate eris, et ipse dominabitur tui.

(To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power, and he shall have dominion over thee.)

(Genesis 3:16)

Response: “It is mistranslated. “sorrow” is better translated as “with physical pain”. “shall be under thy husband’s power” is better translated as “your husband will [want to] dominate you [whether you like it or not]”. “shall have dominion over thee” is better rendered as “he shall lord it over you” or “he shall dominate you [by force] regardless of your desires”. All these are mere statements of fact. The real punishment is contained in the next verse: “yet your longing shall be for your husband”, i.e. “and you’ll love him for being such a jerk and want to have babies with him even though it hurts, ‘cause that’s how I made you”. “

Interesting, is’t it?


49 posted on 07/24/2008 9:53:09 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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To: kimmie7

Cetainly, it is not my job to convert you.

To anything.

Forgive me for asking.


50 posted on 07/24/2008 9:59:44 PM PDT by patton (cuiquam in sua arte credendum)
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