Skip to comments."Have I Then Become Your Enemy Because I Tell You the Truth?" [Ecumenical]
Posted on 08/03/2008 11:01:07 AM PDT by NYer
"Truth has always bothered people and is never comfortable."
Cardinal Ratzinger, October 9, 2000
7. Holy Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit will be with His Church forever, John 14:16-17.
8. Scripture tells us that the Holy Spirit will teach His Church all truth over time, John 16:12-13.
9. Common sense and Holy Scripture tell us that the Holy Spirit could not be teaching and guiding any church other than the one which Jesus Christ founded. This is simply because truth is one and those sects not founded by the Lord all have opposing viewpoints between one another. Except for the existence of GOD, every doctrine taught by one, is denied by another. Their teaching is based solely upon personal opinions, which have no bearing whatsoever on doctrinal truth.
GOD does not care about man's personal opinions, but only for doctrinal truth:
"They came and said to him, "Teacher, we know that you are a truthful man and that you are not concerned with anyone's opinion. You do not regard a person's status but teach the way of GOD in accordance with the truth.""
Mark 12:14, Matthew 22:16
Saint Peter emphasized the rejection of personal opinion when he answered the high priest with,
"We must obey God rather than men."
The facts speak for themselves, leaving no room for opposing personal opinions:
"I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment."
How can tens of thousands of individual sects with millions of members, fail to understand that
very clear and simple verse?
Here is another one on the same theme, also ignored by so many:
"So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any incentive of love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind."
Philippians 2:1-2. See Philippians 1:27 also.
It stands to reason that if all of those various sects taught the same thing, then there would be only one church, just as Holy Scripture demands.
"And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd"
"And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you."
John 14:16-17. See also Acts 20:28.
What does whom the world cannot receive mean? To whom did Jesus speak these words? It is clear that the Holy Spirit is guiding the one Church which Jesus Christ founded.
10. Holy Scripture tells us that there will be factions within the one Church of GOD.
"For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized."
The fact that factions (sects) are present, causes those with the light of truth to shine forth apart from those who are in error. Those who are of the one Church which Jesus Christ founded have that light of truth.
11. Holy Scripture tells us that the only Church which Jesus Christ founded will be subject to Christ and to Him alone. Scripture does not say His Church is subject to man. That makes it a theocracy governed by a hierarchy. The rule comes from the top down and not from the bottom up as in a democracy. How many sects are controlled by the collective will of the people? In the Church which Jesus Christ founded, if 99% of the people wanted something changed, it would not, and could not be changed unless it was by the will of GOD.
Acts 5:29, Ephesians 5:24-25,29, Colossians 1:18
12. Scripture tells us that His Church will last forever, Ephesians 3:21, and Matthew 28:20.
Why then do some say it apostatized at some time or another, and yet they cannot state the time, nor the place, nor provide any authentic documented "proof" of this so-called apostasy?
13. Holy Scripture tells us that it is the Church and not the Bible which is the
pillar and foundation of truth. 1Timothy 3:15. See Ephesians 3:10 also.
Why then do some say it is the Bible and not the Church? Where does it say that in Scripture?
14. Holy Scripture tells us that Christ's Church was given the commission of guarding that truth,
"...guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us."
Did the truth go unguarded for 1500 years until Martin Luther came along?
15. Holy Scripture tells us that Apostolic tradition will be handed down from generation to generation. 2Thessalonians 2:15
16. Holy Scripture tells us that the Church which Jesus Christ founded is the final authority on earth. Matthew 18:15-18
17. Holy Scripture tells us that the true Church will hold to no private interpretation of Holy Scripture. Acts 8:26-35, 2Peter 1:20-21
18. Holy Scripture tells us that the true Church must be found all over the world,
Malachi 1:11, Matthew 28:19, Acts 1:8
19. Holy Scripture tells us that the true Church will offer sacrifice, a clean oblation, every day in every place, Malachi 1:11. A clean oblation could not possibly mean the bloody animal sacrifices of the Old Testament, but the Holy Eucharistic sacrifice as Jesus commanded when He said,
"This is my body, which is being given for you; do this in remembrance of me", Luke 22:19.
Which of the tens of thousands of sects offer sacrifice every day, or every week, or monthly, or quarterly, or yearly, or not at all? Scripture clearly says to offer a clean oblation every day.
"Give us this day our daily bread."
"I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."
Which, if any, of the thousands of sects abide by these Words of GOD? The true Church which Jesus Christ founded does.
20. It is the Church which Jesus Christ founded that gave the world the Bible.
21. Common sense, history, and Holy Scripture, tell us that there are over 135 well-grounded facts which point to the one true Church which Jesus Christ founded, and to none other.
22. Where is the authority? Holy Scripture is silent when a person searches it for the verse which gives him or her the authority to found yet another church other than the one which Jesus Christ founded. No one can simply hold up a Bible and say "This is my authority", if they cannot find the verse which authorizes them to make that statement. The lack of Biblical authority coupled with Psalms 127:1, negates every church on earth, save one, the only one founded by GOD.
Here is where Jesus gave authority to His one and only Church.
"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
"Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.""
John 20:20-23, also see Matthew 16:18-19, 18:15-18, 28:18-20.
23. Holy Scripture tells us that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. However, heretics, from within and from without, of all sorts, have been trying to bring it down for almost 2000 years
(Galatians 1:13, Philippians 3:6), and all have failed. None of them realized that the reason for their failure is because His Church is protected by Jesus Christ Himself, who is the Savior of His Body, Ephesians 5:23, Acts 5:38-39.
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to Myself."
My religion teaches that the original church established by Jesus and his apostles fell way in apostasy, as predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (NASB):
1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
How does your faith interpret this passage?
Thanks for the post, the scripture references given indicate that Jesus did establish a church and left authority with the apostles to act in his name. I realize many Christians do no believe this to be so.
I would add from Ephesians 2 (NASB):
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Of course, this could be interpreted to say the Bible is that foundation, and the writings and traditions from which the Bible sprang, i.e. there was no Bible as we know it today at the time of this epistle.
"If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth."
The house referred to in Psalms 127:1 is explained here. Notice the word used in this verse is 'church' not 'churches'.
Also note that the Bible says it is the Church which is the pillar and foundation of the truth."
Odd, I thought the Bible says that God is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
I have asked protestants at least 100 times to show me a verse in the Bible that shows this and I have yet to get a single legitimate, intelligent response
Remember the words of Archbishop Sheen ...
"If I were not a Catholic, and were looking for the true Church in the world today, I would look for the one Church which did not get along well with the world; in other words, I would look for the Church which the world hates. My reason for doing this would be, that if Christ is in any one of the churches in the world today, He must still be hated as He was when He was on earth in the flesh. If you would find Christ today, then find the Church that does not get along with the world. Look for the Church which is hated by the world, as Christ was hated by the world. Look for the Church which is accused of being behind the times, as Our Lord was accused of being ignorant and of never having learned. Look for the Church which men sneer at as socially inferior, as they sneered at Our Lord because He came from Nazareth. Look for the Church which is accused of having a devil, as Our Lord was accused of being possessed by Beelzebub, the Prince of Devils. Look for the Church which, in seasons of bigotry, men say must be destroyed in the name of GOD as men crucified Christ and thought they had done a service to GOD. Look for the Church which the world rejects because it claims it is infallible, as Pilate rejected Christ because He called Himself The Truth. Look for the Church which is rejected by the world as Our Lord was rejected by men. Look for the Church which amid the confusion of conflicting opinions, its members love as they love Christ, and respect its Voice as the very voice of its Founder, and the suspicion will grow, that if the Church is unpopular with the spirit of the world, then it is unworldly, and if it is unworldly, it is other-worldly. Since it is other-worldly it is infinitely loved and infinitely hated as was Christ Himself. But only that which is Divine can be infinitely hated and infinitely loved. Therefore the Church is Divine."
Typology is awesome. It proves many Catholic points of view.
Worth getting into a class where this is emphasized. Fortunately, that has happened for me.
Thank you for this truthful writing from the Blessed Fulton Sheen!
Please give me the date of this monumental historical event. It would be helpful if you could also show me the genuine historical documents which "prove" what your church charges. Of the thousands of genuine historical documents of every century going all the way back to the first century, and which are available for anyone to research, why is there no mention of this so-called earth shaking "great Apostasy" anywhere to be found? Don't you think that a falling away of the Church which Jesus Christ founded would "rock the universe", so to speak, and be the cause of a great chastisement from GOD after what His Son went through in His passion? Look at what happened to the Jews for their disobedience?
On the contrary. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would be with, and teach His Church forever in John 14:16-17. Such an accusation as made by your church is tantamount to calling Jesus Christ a liar for His promises of perpetuity to His Church? See 1John 5:10.
According to the Bible Itself, the Church is the "pillar of truth" (1 Timothy 3:15), not the Bible. Individual interpretation of Scripture was not practiced by the early Christians or the Jews. (Acts 8:29-35). The assertion that individuals can correctly interpret Scripture is also false. Even the "founder" of Sola Scriptura (Martin Luther), near the end of his life, was afraid that "any milkmaid who could read" would found a new Christian denomination based on his or her "interpretation" of the Bible. Hence, the existence of 25,000+ Christian Churches that all claiming to be authentic in their teachings. If the Bible was to be the sole authority of the Church, shouldn't the Founder, Jesus Christ, have written down His Own teachings? Shouldn't He have at least stated something similar to the following: "the written works of My disciples will be the authority upon which My Church is based?" Since the Gospels are the heart of the New Testament, please show me the verse(s) where He commanded anyone to write them. Please show me where the Bible says that it alone is the sole authority.
What did Martin Luther, the Protestant Reformer, state about the Bible? In his "Commentary On St. John," he stated the following: "We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we have received It from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of It at all." Regardless of what you may think or say, according to secular, objective historians, the Catholic Church alone preserved Sacred Scripture throughout the persecution of the Roman Empire and during the Dark Ages. All non-Catholic Christian denominations owe the existence of the Bible to the Catholic Church alone. Why did God choose the Catholic Church to preserve Scripture if It is not His Church?
As you know only too well, Archbishop Sheen was the first televangelist. What Bishop Clark did to wreckovate the Cathedral of the Sacred Heart - Archbishop Sheen's seat - is beyond tragic. In faith, let us pray for the Archbishop's cause.
Prayer for the Canonization of the Servant of God Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
Heavenly Father, source of all holiness, You raise up within the Church in every age men and women who serve with heroic love and dedication. You have blessed Your Church through the life and ministry of Your faithful servant, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen. He has written and spoken well of Your Divine Son, Jesus Christ, and was a true instrument of the Holy Spirit in touching the hearts of countless people.
If it be according to Your Will, for the honor and glory of the Most Holy Trinity and for the salvation of souls, we ask You to move the Church to proclaim him a saint. We ask this prayer through Christ, our Lord. Amen.
2. PRAY FOR FAVORS THROUGH HIS INTERCESSION
When God wants to glorify one of His servants for Sainthood, He grants many favors through his or her intercession. These favors may be in the form of physical or emotional healings, resolving of family difficulties, spiritual conversions or help in special needs such as finding a job or buying a home. Again, we have to ask God in prayer for these favors through the Archbishop's intercession. We may want to use the prayer below:
Prayer to Obtain a Favor Through the Intercession of the Servant of God Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
Eternal Father, You alone grant us every blessing in Heaven and on earth, through the redemptive mission of Your Divine Son, Jesus Christ, and by the working of the Holy Spirit. If it be according to Your Will, glorify Your servant, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, by granting the favor I now request through his prayerful intercession (mention your request). I make this prayer confidently through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen.
“13. Holy Scripture tells us that it is the Church and not the Bible which is the pillar and foundation of truth. 1Timothy 3:15.”
Irenaeus disagrees. Against Heresies, Book III:
1. WE have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.2 For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed “perfect knowledge,” as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles. For, after our Lord rose from the dead, [the apostles] were invested with power from on high when the Holy Spirit came down [upon them], were filled from all [His gifts], and had perfect knowledge: they departed to the ends of the earth, preaching the glad tidings of the good things [sent] from God to us, and proclaiming the peace of heaven to men, who indeed do all equally and individually possess the Gospel of God. Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews3 in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church”
Love Bishop Sheen’s homilies!!
(In fact, you can hear them from 10-11 PM Eastern daily on the Relevant Radio stream — www.relevantradio.org)
But I think this should have been an “open” thread. The corresponding ranting and raving that would come with it being “open” would just reveal the agenda and character of the ranters, it wouldn’t damage the truth spoken by the bishop!
I'm sure all those attending Jewish synagogues next Sabbath will be glad to know how puffed up and conceited they are.
Ekklesia simply means a "gathering" - a community gathering - a gathering of believers. The traditions of the apostles were recorded in Scripture. What Rome refers to as "tradition" is all of the early stuff that is valid plus all the stuff they made up - mainly in the Dark Ages through the early Middle Ages. It does not follow that if one accepts the former then one must accept the latter.
The Church of Rome invented all scores of things that had no foundation in either reality, history or tradition. The Marian doctrines are the most egregious, but certainly purgatory and confession to priests and "dividing up sin" into mortal and venial could be added to it along with a myriad of smaller issues that don't come to mind right now.
Martin Luther was God's judgment on the Church, in my view, and when the Church got off track and slipped into invention and legalism, God simply went around them - through the wit and wisdom he imparted to a German monk.
If the Church was God's doing, then so was the Reformation. The Reformation led to the Enlightenment, and the Enlightenment led to the ideas of political equality, equal justice under the law, individual liberty, etc. That all had to be God's doing, too, because it led to the founding of the United States of America, which creation surely was due to God's Providence. It's all part of the plan.
Perhaps you aren't familiar with the Guidelines for Ecumenical threads
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