Rowan Williams: gay relationships 'comparable to marriage' (Coffee mug down alert!)

Times Online ^ | August 7, 2007 | Ruth Gledhill

[NYer]

Rowan Williams believes that gay sexual relationships can “reflect the love of God” in a way that is comparable to marriage, The Times has learnt.

Gay partnerships pose the same ethical questions as those between men and women, and the key issue for Christians is that they are faithful and lifelong, he believes.

Dr Williams is known to be personally liberal on the issue but the strength of his views, revealed in private correspondence shown to The Times, will astonish his critics.

The news threatens to reopenbitter divisions over ordaining gay priests, which pushed the Anglican Communion towards a split.

As Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Williams recommitted the Anglican Communion to its orthodox position that homosexual practice is incompatible with Scripture at the Lambeth Conference, which closed on Sunday.

However, in an exchange of letters with an evangelical Christian, written eight years ago when he was Archbishop of Wales, he described his belief that biblical passages criticising homosexual sex were not aimed at people who were gay by nature.

He argued that scriptural prohibitions were addressed to heterosexuals looking for sexual variety. He wrote: “I concluded that an active sexual relationship between two people of the same sex might therefore reflect the love of God in a way comparable to marriage, if and only if it had about it the same character of absolute covenanted faithfulness.” Dr Williams described his view as his “definitive conclusion” reached after 20 years of study and prayer. He drew a distinction between his own beliefs as a theologian and his position as a church leader, for which he had to take account of the traditionalist view.

[NYer]

The letters, written in the autumn of 2000 and 2001, were exchanged with Deborah Pitt, a psychiatrist and evangelical Christian living in his former archdiocese in South Wales, who had written challenging him on the issue.

FULL TEXT OF LETTERS (in pdf format)

[Liberty1970]

There may still be Christians in the Anglican Church. But the Anglican Church is most definitely not a Christian institution.

[NYer]

Vatican Document on Homosexual Unions

Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involving a grave lack of respect for human dignity,(15) does nothing to alter this inadequacy.

CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

Catholic Ping
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[RexBeach]

Homosexuals cannot be married. The parts don’t fit.

When perversion is treated as normal, Hell is right around the corner.

[buffyt]

I used to think so, when my sister’s son moved in with his friend. They lived together for about ten years and I thought they had a solid gay relationship. But they broke up. My nephew has lived with one man after another. I don’t know how he keeps from getting AIDS. I no longer think gay relationships are like marriage. But marriage is one man and one woman NOT including divorce!!!!!!!!! Divorce is just as bad as gay relationships. It is actually more destructive, destroys the children.

[buffyt]

Divorce and abortion = hell right around the corner, too.

[Gamecock]

**The parts don’t fit.**

They do, but not well.

[RexBeach]

You said it, Buffy!

[Mr. Lucky]

So, the Reverend thinks he has outwitted God on a technicality?

[MortMan]

I guess he just doesn’t own an unredacted copy of the scriptures.

[max americana]

>He wrote: “I concluded that an active sexual relationship between two people of the same sex might therefore reflect the love of God in a way comparable to marriage,<

......

[pgkdan]

There may still be Christians in the Anglican Church. But the Anglican Church is most definitely not a Christian institution.

Indeed. I wish the Vatican would end the charade of Ecumenical talks with this institution.

[lormand]

"But marriage is one man and one woman NOT including divorce!!!!!!!!!"

I take my vows seriously. We are about to have our 20th.

Till death do us part!

[Diana in Wisconsin]

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/416.html

See #17, 18 & 25. The Commies are making amazing progress right under our noses!

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

When is the new wave of pilgrims coming?

Did this kind of crap start the first wave?

" One needs to reconsider the nmeaning of Merry Old England."

[television is just wrong]

The bible condemns these acts and calls them perversions. Our governments view of multiculturalism and all acceptance has lead us down the path to accepting anti Christian behavior.

Everything not Christian is good in their eyes. If you don't like it you are racist and xenophobic. not accepting of other cultures.

[SumProVita]

“Rowan Williams believes that gay sexual relationships can “reflect the love of God” in a way that is comparable to marriage....”

Screwtape laughs at Williams.....while he continuously feeds him illogical thinking patterns....and converts his real guilt about perverted sex....to activism.

[crusty old prospector]

He wrote: “I concluded that an active sexual relationship between two people of the same sex might therefore reflect the love of God in a way comparable to marriage, if and only if it had about it the same character of absolute covenanted faithfulness.”

Methinks he is a closet poofer himself. Sodomy is OK as long as it done under the guise of a long term relationship. No quickies at the bath house with the Village People.

[RexBeach]

Diana-This is mighty creepy. Thank you for the superb post.

-Rex

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Read it. Share it. :)

[puroresu]

The fact that the left is pushing homosexuality so hard is proof enough of its evil.

[lormand]

My first name is Randy, and when I visited London a while back, I was careful not to introduce myself to an Englishman as "hi, I'm Randy".

This has a different meaning in England.

[aruanan]

Rowan Williams: gay relationships 'comparable to marriage' (Coffee mug down alert!)

Anything is comparable to anything else.

[silverleaf]

I guess the archbishop could argue that when God nuked Sodom and Gomorrah, he was only aiming at the sodomites who were fooling around, not the ones who were covenanting.

[mandingo republican]

“definitive conclusion” reached after 20 years of study and prayer”

Yeah, right.

[RexBeach]

I think you are correct in your assertion about this agenda being evil. I think it is also proof that the Devil is alive and well in world, and that Hell is a real place. Once there, there is no escape.

It is positively astonishing how quickly so many people in America have decided to rush down this wicked path. A path that can only lead to the ruination of our country and their souls.

I am 58 years of age. Since my birth, I have witnessed what was once a very proud nation turn into a camp of whiners and teeth gnashers who demand immediate gratification in all things, and an amoral society. A society that laughs at God and elevates perversion.

God help us.

[Blind Eye Jones]

The split in Rowan between his personal beliefs and what his office represents shows the extent of the schizophrenic nature of liberalism, the “I was for it before I was against it” mentality, the confusion arising from treating all sides equally and giving credence to everything. Life is chaotic, contradictions abound but hard choices have to be made. Otherwise, it is soft nihilism — where one floats from one thing to another — like a flower petal floating down stream and getting swept up in whatever happens to be the strongest currents.

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Yep. That’s basically ‘The Communist Manifesto.’

[Antoninus]

It’s pretty sad when non-christians like Rowan Williams become the leaders of large Christian denominations. If there’s not enough will left in the Anglican church to revolt against this garbage, they should just shrivel up and die. Better that than to keep on living like this.

[wagglebee]

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[Notwithstanding]

At least Rowan recognizes that he is a “muddled bishop,” as he puts it.

Rowan has found Roe-v-Wade-like penumbras emanating from the Bible that will allow those of supreior intellect and chairty to condone almost any behavior previously and universally condemnned as immoral.

[LuxMaker]

lormand wrote:

"My first name is Randy, and when I visited London a while back, I was careful not to introduce myself to an Englishman as "hi, I'm Randy".

This has a different meaning in England."

I suggest that while you are across the pond that you use the name Andy if that is not perverted to them.

[trisham]

However, in an exchange of letters with an evangelical Christian, written eight years ago when he was Archbishop of Wales, he described his belief that biblical passages criticising homosexual sex were not aimed at people who were gay by nature.

He argued that scriptural prohibitions were addressed to heterosexuals looking for sexual variety. He wrote: “I concluded that an active sexual relationship between two people of the same sex might therefore reflect the love of God in a way comparable to marriage, if and only if it had about it the same character of absolute covenanted faithfulness.”

*************************

Man is fallible.

[jkl1122]

The only Christian institution is the church, the body of Christ. The idea that there are multiple Christian institutions (denominations) within the body of Christ is not in agreement with Scripture. There are many congregations of the church, but these are all part of the same body.

[N. Theknow]

Traditional Anglican Ping List creator Arlin Adams had this guy pegged right when he referred to him as Rowan the Fuzzy, the Arch-Druid.

Huber and sionnsar - you might want to take a look at this latest abomination.

[MIchaelTArchangel]

You need to consider the source. Isn’t Rowan the titular head of the Church of Gay Lust?

[servantboy777]

With all due respect, that is an inaccurate representation of the Anglican communion.

The Majority of Anglicans are indeed biblically based, orthodox Christians.

The worldwide Anglican communion is made up of approx. 70 million members.

The minority are the liberal progressives, mainly in Canada, England, and America. These three provinces make up around five million.

In fact, the Episcopal Church in America claims membership roles of 1.5 million, this number is more like 600K.

My family left the “liberal” Episcopal church over two years ago, yet we are still on their membership roles in the Diocese of Texas.

Kinda sad if you think about it. Even those who have passed away are still on the membership roles in many cases.

My family and I are now worshiping Christ within the Anglican tradition alongside AMIA. Anglican Mission in the Americas.

A missionary movement to the Americas.

[sionnsar]

The news threatens to reopenbitter divisions over ordaining gay priests, which pushed the Anglican Communion towards a split.

Duh. And let's not forget the other "novelties" the Left foisted upon the church over the past half-century. Those who try to remain in the wwAC are trying to remain in communion with heretics.

Thanks to NYer for the ping.

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

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This list is pinged by Huber and sionnsar.

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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[LiteKeeper]

HOLDING-MY-NOSE INTREP

[rogator]

” I take my vows seriously. We are about to have our 20th.

Till death do us part! “

Wow! I can’t even imagine cooking to feed 20 kids.

[elpadre]

His personal views in those letters found in archives do not represent the Anglican Communion position which is that homosexual behavior is incompatible with Scripture.
(Lambeth Resolution 1.10 - 1998 - passed by an overwhelming margin)

[AnalogReigns]

But the Anglican Church is most definitely not a Christian institution.

Keep in mind that the representatives of over 70% of the Anglican Communion worldwide totally disagree with Rowan Williams (mis)interpretation on this, and just recently had their own "Global Anglican Future Conference" (GAFCON) independent of Archbishop Williams in Jerusalem--and then most of them boycotted the regular 10 year Lambeth meeting of Anglican bishops headed by Williams.

Blessedly (and yet sadly) the English Anglican Church is no longer leading the worldwide Anglican Church.

Williams has been a colossal failure as a leader, dithering around while the Communion fell apart--all because they won't obey scripture when it comes to the sins of Sodom (among other things).

[Oratam]

I concluded that an active sexual relationship between two people of the same sex might therefore reflect the love of God in a way comparable to marriage . . . .

Back in the bad old days, the psychological community thought homosexual attraction had its origins in a broken relationship between father and son, whereby a man committed homosexual acts in an unconscious attempt to connect with a father (albeit through surrogates) with whom he never had a relationship. Such a relationship is the very antithesis of that relationship between the Father and the Son in the Trinity and cannot be held up as an earthly reflection of the Divine.

What hath Rowan wrought?

[lormand]

Not kids, but sex.

[verga]

Where do we draw the line? Two men, or two woman, how about two men and one woman, or vica versa. What about the guy who is deeply in love with his border Collie.

When you open the door to "a little deviancy" there is always some J@ck@ss that wants to knock if right off the hinges.

I have said it a thousand times. "You point any item in the sears catalog and some where in the world there is some one that either want s to have sex with it or worship it as a god"

[Religion Moderator]

Please do not use potty language on the Religion Forum.

[Religion Moderator]

Please do not use potty language on the Religion Forum.

[lormand]

"Please do not use potty language on the Religion Forum."

I would prefer you just remove the post. It's not worth posting on a religious thread if I have to walk on egg shells.