Skip to comments.Those Angry Traditionalists (Catholic/Orthodox Caucus)
Posted on 08/13/2008 9:45:56 AM PDT by Pyro7480
...Like it or not, discourse among a great many Traditionalists is filled with anger and contempt for Catholics who do not share their... interest in traditional forms of piety.
So while I've never seen a Clown Mass, I have encountered lots of angry Trads who have compared the Paul VI rite to a Black Mass, made clear that "Novus Ordo types" are second class Catholics... and generally made their claims to be the Guardians of True Catholicism so repellent that I wouldn't touch the Faith with a barge pole if they were the True Apostles of it they claim to be. And that experience is not just mine....
In much the same way that I think Muslims need to stop whining about how people perceive Islam and focus instead on why so many people have such similar perceptions, so too I think not a few Traditionalist Catholics should focus more energy on changing whatever it is in their sub-sector of the Church that leaves so many of us with such a bad taste in our mouths.
When the outsider's principal experience of Traditionalism is of repeated and frequent encounters with mean people who are perpetually angry... he is not going to feel any obligation or interest whatsoever in "understanding the things we care about." Telling outsiders to Traditionalism that they need to overlook their experience and stop talking about what they have actually seen and heard will be about as successful as Muslim attempts to force people to not notice the less-than-lovely face that the Religion of Peace shows the world.
Is clinging to anger more important to Traditionalists than actually winning hearts and minds to their cause? If so, then their agenda is doomed and they have paradoxically abandoned the worship of God in the name of liturgical purity.
(Excerpt) Read more at insidecatholic.com ...
What would dude do if he met Jeremiah?!
He did it right. Back when I was on Catholic Answers Forums, people like me (I called myself a historic Catholic) was a traditionalist with a small “t”. We wanted an historic Catholic mass with no innovation.
Those who wanted a TLM only, SSPX, SSPV and the like were Capitalized Traditionalists. Some of them can be, shall we say, “strong”.
It appears that Shea doesn't understand the Traditionalists and waxes a bit "elitist" in assuming he can teach them his lesson.
I don’t think everyone knows/understands that distinction. Also, the key word you used is “some.” Some Latin Mass-devotees can have that tendency.
Jeremiah probably wouldn't lecture him about how he was a heathen for using a 1962 Missal instead of a 1954 Missal.
I belonged to a Trad chapel for a few years and the most striking thing was not anger, but their fear of ridicule.
Those who started this Chapel endured years of community scorn, but have finally been accepted as simply another way to hear the Mass and receive our Lord.
Admittedly, they place a great deal of emphasis on rubrics and on other aspects of respect for the Eucharist, i.e., dress, deportment, proper participation, silence, that is missing in many cases in Novus Ordo Masses.
Mark Shea is a little too strident in his condemnation. Other than a rather loud, “ssssshhhhh,” from a very old lady, I haven’t noticed any particularly violent attacks on visitors to a Trad Mass. Comparing them to Muslims is shameful.
>>I think not a few Traditionalist Catholics should focus more energy on changing whatever it is in their sub-sector of the Church<<
Obviously, he knows not of what he speaks. I’ve tried that approach of changing from within and it is just like dealing with Liberals in everyday society. Twenty-five years ago I was trying to retain the sanctity of Catholic practices. Everybody from the Cardinal to the bishops to the priests and yes the clowns too laughed at my attempts.
So walk a mile in my shoes, if you can.
Step back, wait for the incoming, throw it back, then ignore.
LOL! So you agree?
This chapel is under the direction of the Diocese and has a dispensation for the Latin Mass.
Well, I think he should be more careful about distinguishing the focus of his criticism. I like the distinction drawn above: I’m certainly a traditionalist Catholic, but I’m not some kind of card-carrying Traditionalist, let alone a sedevacantist or that other stuff.
>>Some Latin Mass-devotees can have that tendency.<<
That’s true, but I’ve also know some liberal Catholics to be worse! Nothing traditional allowed. Tabernacle off to the side, handholding, laity using the orans, no mention of Mary, no devotionals. AND something is wrong with you if you want ANYTHING traditional. Sheesh
The big problem today is that catholic doesn't mean anything today.
The American catholic Church needs to be brought to heel by Pope Benedict as it is not supposed to be a loose franchise granted by Rome.
As I've stated before, European Roman Catholic Churches allow no communion given in the communicant's hand. There are no lay distributors. There are no lay lectors.
The priest doesn't merely 'preside' he is the representative of Christ. He faces away from the congregation and prays to God, not to the congregants. And further, when the faithful quietly enter the sanctuary one is given the distinct impression that something important happens here. It's not like the Elks.
My wife is Catholic, my 4 daughters are in CCD (or will be shortly), I'm not.
We ran into a traditionalist at a reception last weekend. She and my wife got to talking, and she invited my wife to mass at her church.
It turns out, she doesn't recognize the bishop of our diocese, she believes all the masses said under his ordinary jurisdiction are invalid, that there is no real pope (or that there may be one who is in hiding, but in any event, it's not B16).
The priest at her church is "independent" but says the mass in latin.
Now, to me, it appears that this theory of the church is not dissimilar to LDS theology - that there has been some sort of occultation of the church which needs restoration by a small remnant.
If this were true, wouldn't it mean that the gates of Hell had in fact prevailed?
How can we thank them for building structures that look like airplane hangars with nothing in them but a concrete picnic table? Where and what are confessionals?
The 'priest' makes certain that what passes for the homily doesn't offend any sinners.
That “traditionalist” sounds like a sedevacantist — someone who thinks the See of Peter, meaning the Papal Office, has been vacant since the Pius XII, possibly even before, and that all subsequent popes have been false popes.
She's a sedevacantist. They have gone to the edge of the world and fallen off. Another name for them is "Protestant".
Avoid such persons.