Posted on 08/28/2008 8:41:37 AM PDT by Zakeet
The increasingly protracted battle between the FLDS community and the state of Texas has prompted a number of discussions about the Texas polygamous group and the Mormons.
A MormonTimes.com reader identifying himself as Tom Jones sent a question to the site's "Mormon Q&A section," where answers and discussion on topics of interest are addressed by the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR).
Jones' question reads: Since the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has much more in common with the mainline LDS Church than the LDS Church has in common with mainline Christianity, why is it OK for the LDS to call themselves "Christian" and not OK for the FLDS to call themselves "Mormon"?
(Excerpt) Read more at mormontimes.com ...
In responding to the question, the FAIR spokesman quotes the dialogue between Alice and the White Knight in Through the Looking Glass at some length and then concludes "the term Mormon is a registered trademark in many countries and belongs to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. To protect that trademark, the church is required to actively discourage its use elsewhere."
On the other hand, Christian however is a broad category of religious belief and embraces many differing faiths and creeds ... [that] embraces all Catholic, Protestant, Reformist and, yes, even restorationist sects like the LDS Church. That there are other restorationist sects that claim Joseph Smith Jr. is not in doubt; but if they are not members of the LDS Church, then they are not officially Mormon, but they are Christian.
So now you know!
Ping
[Well, for one thing “Mormon” is a registered trademark in many countries and belongs to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. To protect that trademark, the church is required to actively discourage its use elsewhere. This is similar to using the term “Scotch tape” to refer to any brand of cellophane tape or Xerox to refer to copying something. Those companies have to actively discourage such use of their name or they may lose the right to protect their name.
“Christian” however is a broad category of religious belief and embraces many differing faiths and creeds.]
So, if Christianity were a trademark, we’d be forced to defend it against Mormons, but without a trade mark anything goes??? Spin spin spin spin . . . .
I thought the FLDS called themselves Mormon?
Jones’ question reads: Since the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has much more in common with the mainline LDS Church than the LDS Church has in common with mainline Christianity, why is it OK for the LDS to call themselves “Christian” and not OK for the FLDS to call themselves “Mormon”?
______________________________________________
As a Christian, I will allow the fLDS to call themselves MORMONS...
I’m OK with that....
There ya go......
Can Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic, or Episcopalian be trademarked?
I wonder what Jesus thinks about trademarking?
The roundabout"...in many countries" seems like a goofball way of avoiding having to state the fact that it is not a registered trademark in THIS Country. And since it's not, why bring it up in the first place, as though it had any relevance? Weird.
In some countries, Mormon and some phrases including the term are registered trademarks owned by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.[17][18] In the United States, the LDS Church has applied for a trademark on "Mormon" as applied to religious services; however, the United States Patent and Trademark Office rejected the application, stating that the term "Mormon" was too generic, and is popularly understood as referring to a particular kind of church, similar to "Presbyterian" or "Methodist", rather than a service mark.[19] The application is on appeal as of mid-2007.[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon#Trademark
More cognitive dissonance.
Cordially,
And the concluding paragraph that you conveniently omitted:
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints belongs under the broad umbrella of Christianity because we do believe in Jesus Christ, we do preach him crucified and resurrected, we do have faith in his Atonement, we do love him for his grace and mercy, and we do trust in his eventual return.”
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints belongs under the broad umbrella of Christianity because we do believe in Jesus Christ, we do preach him crucified and resurrected, we do have faith in his Atonement, we do love him for his grace and mercy, and we do trust in his eventual return.”
The assertion Mormons are Christian is ludicrous for at least three reasons
FIRST: MORMONISM REJECTS MANY ESSENTIAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES
I suggest you check out the article: We're Christians just like you! wherein the author presents a number of well-annotated examples.
If necessary, dozens of additional articles and illustrations can be found on this WEBSITE alone.
SECOND: THE MORMON CHURCH UNEQUIVOCALLY CONDEMNS CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIANITY
And the angel of God said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10-11If still not convinced, you can find many more similar quotes of Mormon leaders slamming Christians HERE and HERE.My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong) – and which I should join. … I was answered by God that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." He again forbade me to join with any of them – Prophet Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith History 1:18-20
Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167
The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God. – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171
Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." – Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176
Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ."No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7
THIRD: THE MORMON CHURCH ITSELF REJECTS CHRISTIANITY
Beginning with Joseph Smith, Mormon prophets have steadfastly proclaimed all Christian denominations were in a state of apostasy.
This raises an interesting question. A heretic is someone who rejects one or more doctrines of religion, but an apostate is someone who has rejected the religion entirely. How is it, exactly, that you can be something you have completely dismissed? How does that work?
In other words, you can call yourself a tree, but that doesn't make you a tree. Mormons can call themselves Christian, but that doesn't make them Christian.
Blah, blah, blah. We are Christians. I can’t help it that YOU don’t believe the plain and simple truths in the Bible. Very plainly, Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He prays to God. He died to save us all.
He didn’t die to give you the right to hate us. That was the founding fathers of the United States.
I understand that if you and your ilk had its way, all of the Saints would be hanging from lamp posts. We are not going to allow you to have your way. We are Christians and we love The Lord.
Dear Old Mountain Man,
I have read the posts here and elsewhere on FR re Mormonism with great interest.
To say up front, I’m Presbyterian.
I am trying my best to understand Mormonism and its beliefs.
Without starting an argument, may I respectfully ask how Mormons reconcile the statements quoted below with the statement that Mormons are Christians? Are they simply dismissed/overlooked or are the statements believed by Mormons?
Again, I am simply trying to understand and am not “putting down” your faith nor trying to begin a conflict that ends up with the thread being pulled. I simply seek answers.
Respectfully and,
My Best Regards,
BR
Journal of Discourses 6:176
Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints “do not believe in the traditional Christ.”No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7
I tried to make it as clear as day that I sought an answer only - not an argument. I don’t know what more I could have said to make it more plain. Legitimate question, IMHO, and I don’t understand the offense taken nor the response given, but thanks for the reply nonetheless.
Have a great day.
BR
+++++++++++++++
Even though you choose not to follow Jesus’s Prophet, you too are also a Christian.
++
If I may give an answer.
Heavenly Father has His Church guided by Christ. Christ then guides His Prophet guide men and woman of this earth.
THANK YOU very, very much for responding to a post that held no animosity towards Mormons whatsoever.
Is it simply that Mormons NOW reject those statements quoted in the earlier post of mine or have they always, or do they entirely dismiss them so that Mormonism can “fall under the wide umbrella of Christianity”? That was the question to which I was seeking an answer.
I very much appreciate your not having exploded on me, and would do NO LESS than offer you the same courtesy.
Thanks, again, Fproy.
Sincerely,
BR
Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing ... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God. – Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225
The Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable … but with the Bible it was not and is not so … it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was. – Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints “do not believe in the traditional Christ.”No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. – Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7
++
The answers to these questions need more then the “sound bites” given here at FR.
The folks at FAIR have taken the time to write comprehensive answers to many of the questions like this.
Your welcome.
Brilliant as always.
I am always amused that you mention Billy Graham. What is your attachment to him?
Hate? It as always the ldsers who mention hate.
Founding fathers they didn’t like ldsers?
I am always amused at how the lamestreamers get upset over his hypocricy. Never admit it, but get upset. Him, Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, etc. are all birds of a feather.
Are you and your buddy Zakeet playing switch hitter today?
Oh?
How about the USofA?
Why did YOU 'omit' so MANY of the LDS beliefs that are NOT in CHRISTIANITY?
We LOVE you, OMM!!
Why do you think we HATE you?
Is that something you've learned at the knee of an LDS teacher?
Because I can always depend upon a fine Presbyterian such as you to do it for me.
Blah blah blah.
Golly gee, OMM - you refuse to answer simple questions?
Who knew?
It's simple.
He's MORMON and ANYTHING that does not kiss the ring is an enemy.
Meaning a VAST amount of spin and shift.
The namecalling aside; why are YOU not upset over the LDS Founder and subsequent leaders dis-obeying DIRECT COMMANDMENTS from GOD?
You may call for a switch catcher if you wish...
So it is Mormon, Inc.
As long as they don’t call themselves Christians, I don’t care what name they use. They are NOT Christians even if they do believe in Jesus, etc., etc. Their Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible.
That’s ridiculous, OMM. We don’t want to see anyone hung from lamp posts. We know you are good people but you have been deceived by Joseph Smith and your leaders. Blessings.
placemark
New Agers usually have a “spirit guide” named Jesus...
Haven’t played softball since high school, never switched hit.
Oh, yea do you ever answer a question?
The Catholic Church does not recognize the LDS as a Christian Church.
In 2001 the Roman Catholic Church declared that Mormon converts have to be rebaptized. The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith declared that baptisms in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are not the baptism that Christ instituted.
The Vatican said Mormons are not Christians. The ruling was a departure from the Catholic Church's usual practice of recognizing the baptisms of converts from most other churches. The Vatican held that the Mormon view of the nature of God is too different from Catholicism.
In 2008 the Vatican Congregation for Clergy directed all parishes to keep the Latter-day Saints from microfilming and digitizing information contained in their registers. The step was taken to prevent the Latter-day Saints from using records -- such as baptismal documentation -- to posthumously baptize by proxy the ancestors of church members.
I did not know that.
I know, and where does he guide them? TO HELL. Not our Jesus, for sure.
Praise the Lord that He wants none to perish.
Very good post, Alice in Wonderland. I did not know about the Catholics’ view on Mormonism.
Have a great evening,
BR
That’s right. God bless, Mxxx
“— to posthumously baptize by proxy the ancestors of church members.”
Sorry, Alice. I re-read your post and am now stumped/shocked.
To POSTHUMOUSLY baptize??? Huh???
Hi Elsie,
Sitting here and (kind of) watching the pre-DNC show with my Mom, she posed a question that’s more than fitting and timely.
First, though, IN NO WAY now and never would I or could I disrespect a human PERSONALLY because of their beliefs. My hope is that all would come to know Jesus Christ and believe in HIS word ... ALONE. That is my prayer.
Now, my question. If Romney is chosen as McCain’s running mate ...
The questions respectfully posed to those of the Mormon faith here on FR that go unanswered speak volumes. If the “everyday” Mormon cannot answer, what can we expect of Romney?
Respectfully to you, Elsie,
and ALL ON THIS THREAD,
BR
There’s something in the “LDS” part of “FLDS” that just says “Mormon”.
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