Hmmm, maybe based on books like this:
Posted on 09/03/2008 4:05:23 AM PDT by Gamecock
GRAPEVINE, Texas (BP)—Have you ever noticed that when a discussion turns to a recently deceased celebrity, someone invariably says, “I know he’s looking down on us right now”? It doesn’t matter how godless the person was, his peers refer to him as being in a better place and then gesture skyward.
Mark Coppenger, professor of Christian apologetics at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, sees a lamentable example of that in the 1941 poem “High Flight,” which was quoted in tribute to astronauts who died in the 1986 explosion of the Space Shuttle Challenger.
Not all the astronauts were Christians “but we were told they ‘slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God,’” Coppenger noted. He also recalled a cartoon in a Chicago newspaper that depicted the late sports announcer Harry Caray being welcomed by Saint Peter at the pearly gates, even though there was no evidence Caray was redeemed.
“Everywhere you turn, culture ignores the Bible to make gassy pronouncements on the afterlife,” Coppenger said.
Such secular cultural perceptions are uninformed by the truth and seem to be based on the delusion that one’s eternal destiny is determined either by heinous deeds or good poll numbers.
Some people assume the dearly departed are in heaven because they weren’t notorious sinners. People want to believe the departed went to heaven because they know they themselves are sinners and want to believe they are not bad enough for hell. “I’m not as bad as the other guy,” goes the thinking. “God will somehow understand in the end that we were pretty good people, and based on our overall behavior He should let us into heaven.”
In a 2004 address at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, David Dockery, president of Union University in Jackson, Tenn., said, “Even those who retain some vague idea of heavenly bliss beyond this life are slow to acknowledge the reality of final judgment and condemnation. Modern men and women live with the mindset that there is no heaven, no hell and therefore no guilt.”
Focused on this world
Steve Lemke, provost of New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, said so much error is found in popular thinking about eternity because there’s “less preaching now about heaven and hell than in previous eras.” He attributes that trend to the upward social mobility of Southern Baptists.
Until the 1950s, Southern Baptists were mostly rural, small-town folks and heaven was the only respite many poor people expected from their hardscrabble existence, Lemke noted. “So we lived with hope and our eyes on the skies, awaiting Christ’s return,” he said.
But with increased education and income, Southern Baptists moved to suburbia and began enjoying a fairly comfortable lifestyle with a focus on coping in this world, Lemke added.
“We don’t give nearly the attention we should to eternity,” he said. “Popular preaching focuses on how to have a better marriage, better relationships and how to cope with struggles.
“It is important that we address these topics in preaching and teaching, of course, but not to the neglect of a focus on eternity,” he said. “By this very focus on meeting needs in this world—to the neglect of preaching on heaven and hell—we are showing by our actions that this world is more significant than the world to come.”
Malcolm Yarnell, associate professor of systematic theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, sees two causes for the neglect of preaching on eternity, both of which “reflect the power of contemporary culture to distort the message once-for-all given to the saints.”
“First, our people and pastors are increasingly interested in making heaven here on earth,” Yarnell said. “The modern pursuit of material wealth and comfort, alongside the overarching desire to avoid pain or physical problems of any type, is a longstanding and pervasive influence in our culture. Rather than challenging such a mindset, some of us quietly cave into the demand for sermons to consider primarily mundane matters.
“Second, the subject of hell is not exactly the most comfortable subject to address,” he said. “Postmodernism, with its attendant religious inclusivism and aversion to judgment, is the dominant outlook of our cultural elite, especially in the media; to condemn non-Christians to an eternity in hell is considered impolite, even rude.”
A need to hear the truth
People think about the afterlife, but they need to hear the truth amid the eschatological blather espoused by the New Age movement, Mormonism, universalism, and other false religions, Coppenger added.
Yarnell agreed: “We don’t clearly enough make the biblical connection between the doctrine of heaven and hell and the life we live today. The unfortunate consequence of this neglect is that we too easily live like permanent residents of the City of Man rather than the resident aliens we are, headed to our good end as Christ’s people in the City of God.”
Even people on opposite sides of the Calvinism issue seem to agree on certain matters of eternity, Yarnell added.
“Both traditional Baptists and Calvinist Baptists look at Scripture as inerrant and the supreme source of our doctrine,” Yarnell said. “The New Testament is filled with references to heaven and hell. There is not a page of Scripture that, directly or indirectly, does not call the hearer to consider his eternal standing before an eternal God. If you derive your proclamation from Scripture, you will preach heaven and hell. On this, all conservative Southern Baptists will agree.”
Muslims may talk more about eternal consequences than do evangelicals, says former missionary Eddie Pate, associate professor of missions at Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary.
“Heaven and hell are issues I talked about all the time with Muslims,” Pate said. “Many of my best conversations revolved around these topics. I would guess that, during our years on the mission field, heaven and hell were topics in at least half the conversations I had with Muslims.
“Muslims believe people who follow the pillars of Islam will go to heaven—at least they hope so,” Pate added. “But Muslims can’t speak with any assurance like Christians can. They can’t embrace ‘Christ died once for our sins, once for all, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God’ (1 Peter 3:18). They have no such confidence.”
Mormons, on the other hand, teach a universalistic view of an afterlife, explained Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary President R. Philip Roberts, who has written and lectured extensively on cults.
LDS founder Joseph Smith was traumatized by the accusation that his brother who died as a teenager had gone to hell and fashioned a religion in which “everyone is going to a better place,” Roberts said. “Whether you are as evil as Adolf Hitler or whatever your lifestyle, you’re at least going to go into a telestial Kingdom, which Mormonism teaches is a far better place than this life and world, a place of great bliss and happiness.”
Smith included all his elements of an afterlife—becoming like gods and having many wives—after becoming involved in polygamous affairs, Roberts noted. “His doctrine of the afterlife was created to satisfy his need to provide some kind of quasi-universalism and to cover his moral failures,” he said.
Three reasons to preach on eternity
Preaching on the doctrines of heaven and hell are vitally important because they “teach us not only of the life to come, but teach us much about how we should live in the everyday of life today,” said David Nelson, theology professor and academic vice president at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C.
“The doctrine of heaven and, yes, the doctrine of hell, lead us to reflect on the greatness and goodness of God who is holy and who is love, who is beautiful and glorious,” Nelson said. “To fail to teach these doctrines is to fail to teach of the fullness of God by whom we are all to be filled, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 3.”
“No preacher in his right mind enjoys preaching on hell,” added David Allen, theology dean at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. “Hell is a place terrible beyond imagination. But no preacher in his right mind can avoid preaching on hell. As Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:11, ‘knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.’”
Allen said he preaches about hell for three reasons:
1) It is a biblical doctrine. Jesus spoke more about hell than about heaven. Jesus uses the word “Hades” four times in his preaching and the word “hell” 11 times. Eighteen of the 28 times Jesus uses the word “fire” in the Gospels, he is talking about hell. If there is no hell, then there is no punishment for sin.
2) We are commanded to preach the whole counsel of God (Acts 20: 27). The Lord will hold his preachers accountable for preaching all of the Bible, not just the parts of it people like to hear.
3) Jesus lived, died and rose again so people would not have to go to hell. Only Jesus can save someone from his sins and from hell.
“Doctrinal preaching is drastically needed in our churches,” Allen said. “Believe it or not, most people in the churches want to know what God said about heaven and hell. In fact, most lost people want to know as well. When I preach on hell, I have found most people give serious attention during the message.
“Remember, one should never preach on hell as if he were glad people were going there,” he added. “If you don’t preach with a tear in your eye, at least preach with a tear in your heart when you preach on hell. Speaking the truth in love in the power of the Holy Spirit is a powerful thing. Trust God to bless your preaching in this area and you will not be disappointed—and neither will your people.”
Hmmm, maybe based on books like this:
bookmark
Wiley Coyote went to the Prime Mover and asked him why the earth was in such a mess. The Prime Mover ignored him and did what the Prime Mover does. He created and he moved. Wiley Coyote again went to the heavens from the mess on earth and again asked the Prime Mover why the earth is in the mess it is in. Again, the Prime Mover acted as though He didn’t hear and did what the PM does. He created and moved. WHY? The Prime Mover was the low bidder.
This touches on the subject of heroism, and those who truly sacrifice their lives for their nation.
There is a cultural mythology and there is Christianity.
This professor is raising points of Christian doctrine and attempting to apply them to cultural mythology. It’s a lost cause and wasted time, imho.
If someone dies for my freedom, I’m not going to stand up and lead the discussion on how he’s got a decent chance of spending his eternity in hell. It does no one any good.
Besides, we really don’t know what prayer might have been breathed by that thief on the cross in his final dying micro-second. In almost all cases, it’s best to leave separating the sheep and the goats up to the Lord.
Or maybe it’s based on some guy that said we should pray that God’s kingdom come and will be done on earth as it is in heaven, or that His kingdom was at hand, or all the rest of that stuff.
Dang to early “tanking=talking”
Tell it to the persecuted church.
>> He also recalled a cartoon in a Chicago newspaper that depicted the late sports announcer Harry Caray being welcomed by Saint Peter at the pearly gates, even though there was no evidence Caray was redeemed. <<
Harry Caray was a lifelong, church-attending Catholic, given a proper funeral mass. So unless the author has some reason to doubt his redemption (like several CINO’s public embrace of legalized abortion), this comes off like a bigoted, uncharitable comment.
The strange thing is the author goes after Caray, instead of the obvious notion based on a silly, pop-culture charicature of Catholic doctrine: that St. Peter personally serves as some sort of bellhop or bouncer for Heaven.
“If I knew God I’d be Him.”
“If I knew God I’d be Him.”
I know God and yet don’t claim to be Him. We know God because He dwelt among us.
I’m a Jew, but grateful to Christians, without whom America could not have been founded.
I absolutely agree that anyone concerned with the things of God and His Only begotten Son should be ultimately and deeply aware of eternal realities. We are eternal beings. This life is but a beginning.
But where does it say our eternal reward is in heaven? I thought the meek should inherit the earth. Can someone find me a verse that says we spend eternity in heaven?
mE bAD sHOULD bE aNGELS
We also know God because He indwells us today.
John 17:22-26
Col 1:25-29
and related to the Shekinah Glory.
I'm a Christian, but grateful to the Jew, without whom I could not have redemption.
On this note, I also would disagree, although not in an attempt to honor Caray, but to glorify our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to whom was imputed all the sins of humanity, past, present, and future and redeemed us for them all.
This doesn't lead to universalism, because forgiveness did not happen at the Cross, but rather redemption of sin, reconciliation of man to God, and propitiation of His wrath. He atoned for all sin.
All men who were born from the first Adam, inherit the old sin nature and are condemned already. Upon simple faith alone in Christ alone, then we are forgiven by God and He is free in His immutable nature to give us eternal life by His grace.
There exist many others who well understand the elect are indeed redeemed by Christ on the Cross and understand those who reject salvation are condemned already and shall undergo the Great White Throne Judgment.
Our Lord Christ Jesus provided unlimited atonement and redeemed us from all sin. Forgiveness occurs upon our initlal faith in Him and after a regenerated human spirit, if we sin again, we are forgiven upon turning back to Him and confessing known and unknown sin.
Revelation does not indicate we are cast into hell for sin, rather our good works are rewarded at the bema seat and those not elect are judged by the Book of names, then the Book of Works which are qualified by divine standards for righteousness.
God's grace to You and Yours.
Now there's a whole other megilla.
Though, the Feminine sense of God.
Surprisingly, I don’t disagree with you at all, after the first clause. (How often does that happen between us :^D ?)
The only disagreement is that all those very powerful, true statements aren’t germane to what I had written. Caray was much beloved, and the people he had departed from were expressing their hope in his salvation. To highlight that as an instance of the pop culture presenting biblically unsound beliefs about heaven is just, well, weird, especially given that other much more obvious examples of unsound beliefs abounded in that very same expression.
The author stated that there was no evidence Caray was redeemed. Carey professed his faith, was active in his church, and (at least from what known about him publicly) lived a decent, simple Christian life in an environment rich in temptation and worldly distraction. While we can’t know that Carey had kept from the light some deep, dark lack of faith, we can’t KNOW Caray is redeemed, but the author is attacking someone expressing the feelings of those who loved him.
I can’t reasonably the author of presuming Caray isn’t redeemed because Caray is Catholic; I can’t know his motives to judge him. However, I can criticize his writing, and his choice of examples as being weak enough as to possibly create such an appearance in those (such as myself or those who ARE anti-Catholic) who may be sensitive to such issues.
I agree that we might not know if Caray is forgiven, but I have no doubt his sins have been redeemed. My discernment is between redemption and forgiveness. Additionally, his works tend to manifest that he is elect and for this reason I have no just cause to condemn him any more than any other man is condemned prior to salvation, but rejoice that he may indeed a fellow brother in Christ.
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