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“Ye Shall Be Called the Children of Christ” (LDS - OPEN)
Meridian Magazine ^ | Maurine Jensen Proctor

Posted on 09/05/2008 3:14:14 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

 

M E R I D I A N     M A G A Z I N E

Lesson 16
“Ye Shall Be Called the Children of Christ”
Mosiah 4-6
By Maurine Jensen Proctor

Children of Christ

Before his death, King Benjamin hoped to help his people make a covenant to become the children of Christ. He said:

And now because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters (Mosiah 5:7).

Since Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and Elohim is our Father, people are often confused by this terminology. In what way is Jesus Christ our father? Joseph Fielding Smith answered that question:

What is a father? One who begets life. What did our Savior do? He begot us, or gave us life from death, as clearly set forth by Jacob, the brother of Nephi. If it had not been for the death of our Savior, Jesus Christ, the spirit and body would never have been united again.

If there had been no redemption from death, our spirits would have been taken captive by Satan and we would have become subject to Satan's will forever.

What did our Savior do? He begot us in that sense. He became a father to us because he gave us immortality or eternal life through his death and sacrifice upon the cross. I think we have a perfect right to speak of him as Father"( Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 4:177-79.)

Jesus Christ is also the life giver to our wounded and sin-ridden spirits. Without his atoning sacrifice we would be lost forever, unable to enter God's presence. The natural man would reign, and we would be unable to escape the chains that bind us. It is Jesus Christ who heals us, binds our wounds, and takes upon himself our sins. Without the protective cloak of his atonement around us, we would stand naked in our sins at the bar of justice, and be cast off.

Since Jesus saves us from physical and spiritual death, he gives us physical and spiritual life. No wonder his sentiment rings with such clarity, "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly" (John 10:10).

Just as a child takes upon himself his father's name, so do we take upon ourselves our Savior's name. It not only indicates that we are seeking to be like him, but that we are under his protection and love. He will lend his strength in our struggle with sin.

Bruce R. McConkie said, "May I speak of the special family relationship enjoyed by those who so live that they become a peculiar people. Of them it is written: 'Ye are the sons of the living God' (Hosea 1:10). That is, those who gain the high status of a peculiar people are adopted into the family of the Lord Jehovah. They become his sons and his daughters and have him as their father."

Who Is God?

How do we become a son or daughter of Jesus Christ? We begin by seeking to understand who God is. What is he like? If we were to think of the most righteous person we ever knew, is God something like that? Or is he like those other authority figures in our lives-our earthly parents?

In this finite, mortal state, we struggle to understand God's attributes for he is simply so much more than we can conceive. We taste his love, but we don't comprehend it. Our mortal brains cannot leap far enough to take Him in. Yet, we can read something about the prophet's experiences with him in scripture.

Moses, when he was caught up into an exceedingly high mountain saw God face to face and talked to him. "And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God Almighty, and Endless is my name; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?"(Moses 1:3).

Then Moses was shown "the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered"(Moses 1:8). After this magnificent and sweeping vision in which he began to comprehend the glory of God, Moses fell to the earth and said, "Now, for this cause I know that man is nothing, which thing I never had supposed (Moses 1:10).

This was a clarifying moment for Moses, because he had edged closer to knowing who God is, and thus knew more certainly who he was. After the Lord gave his powerful introduction to Moses, he claimed him as his own. "Thou art my son." To be truly related, next-of-kin, to this great and glorious God filled Moses with awe and humility.

Just as Moses came to comprehend something about God's attributes in his vision, so King Benjamin urges his people to know God. "Believe in God," he pleads. "Believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend" (Mosiah 4:9)

It is in coming to "a knowledge of God's goodness, his matchless power and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children men" (Mosiah 4:6) that we see ourselves for the first time. We are, as Moses discovered, nothing. We are dependent on him for everything that we are, everything that we have, every breath that we take. We are unprofitable servants. We are beggars. We are in a fallen and carnal state. We are less than the dust of the earth. We are wounded.

Yet that very knowledge can fill us with joy, because it is what draws us to him, the source of healing. We can be forgiven and lifted from the ashes of despair. We can be refreshed and renewed through our Savior. We can be cleansed and refined.

It is more joyful to be transformed through Christ, than believe we are self-made and sufficient. It is happier to see our weaknesses and overcome them, than hide them from ourselves. Nothing tastes sweeter than the atonement or is a more healing balm of Gilead. Only when we understand how much we need forgiveness, can we comprehend the extent of God's goodness and love towards us.

The Joy of Forgiveness

King Benjamin's people knew "exceedingly great joy" because they had tasted of God's love and received a remission of their sins. How can we know when our sins have been forgiven? President Harold B. Lee told this story:

Some years ago, President Marion G. Romney and I were sitting in my office. The door opened and a fine young man came in with a troubled look on his face, and he said, “Brethren, I am going to the temple for the first time tomorrow. I have made some mistakes in the past, and I have gone to my bishop and my stake president, and I have made a clean disclosure of it all; and after a period of repentance and assurance that I have not returned again to those mistakes, they have now adjudged me ready to go to the temple. But, brethren, that is not enough. I want to know, and how can I know, that the Lord has forgiven me also.”

What would you answer one who might come to you asking that question? As we pondered for a moment, we remembered King Benjamin's address contained in the book of Mosiah. Here was a group of people asking for baptism, and they said they viewed themselves in their carnal state:

"And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth, And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth and all things; who shall come down among the children of men. And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come"(Mosiah 4:2,3).

There was the answer.

If the time comes when you have done all that you can to repent of your sins, whoever you are, wherever you are, and have made amends and restitution to the best of your ability; if it be something that will affect your standing in the Church and you have gone to the proper authorities, then you will want that confirming answer as to whether or not the Lord has accepted of you. In your soul-searching, if you seek for and you find that peace of conscience, by that token you may know that the Lord has accepted of your repentance.

Satan would have you think otherwise and sometimes persuade you that now having made one mistake, you might go on and on with no turning back. That is one of the great falsehoods. The miracle of forgiveness is available to all of those who turn from their evil doings and return no more, because the Lord has said in a revelation to us in our days, "go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth [meaning again] shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.” (D&C 82:7). Have that in mind, all of you who may be troubled with a burden of sin. (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places, pp. 184-185.)

Retaining a Remission of Sins

Once we have been filled with the sweetness of forgiveness and felt to rejoice in God's love, we must live as new people — people who have been born again. Those in this state of refreshment do not have a mind to injure one another, but to live peaceably. They nurture their children well, teaching them the laws of God. They walk soberly and uprightly.

Then, King Benjamin mentions this acid test. If we would retain a remission of our sins, we will "succor those that stand in need of your succor, ye will administer to your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish (Mosiah 4:16).

What? If we would retain a remission of our sins, we must respond to the needs of the poor? It is so easy to think of that as a "going the extra mile" kind of task, after the real work of life is done. (See "Consecration Beckons" currently on Meridian.)

Yet Amulek gives us this additional insight in his sermon on prayer in Alma 34. He lists all the places and reasons we should cry unto the Lord, and then adds, "Behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need-I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith" (Alma 34:28).

If we would have our prayers answered and retain forgiveness for our sins, we must respond to the outstretched hand of the beggar. How appropriate. King Benjamin has just demonstrated that we are beggars, dependent on the largesse of the Lord. Now, we see, that in turn, in order to receive the full bounty of his gifts, we must respond to the beggars in our lives.

 



TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: bookofmormon; fatwa; jihad; lds; mormon; mormonseatbabies
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1 posted on 09/05/2008 3:14:14 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; svcw; Enosh; ...

Ping


2 posted on 09/05/2008 3:15:38 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah was put on this earth to do two things: kill caribou and kick butt. She's all out of caribou.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected

Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule.

On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.”

When in doubt, review your use of the pronoun “you” before hitting “enter.”

Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.

Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters.

 

Link

3 posted on 09/05/2008 3:19:18 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah was put on this earth to do two things: kill caribou and kick butt. She's all out of caribou.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Don't care to debate with you anymore, but I couldn't agree more with your new tagline.

I would only add that she's moved on from mooseburgers to donkeyburgers!

Yes, even us heretical Mormons are cheering loudly for Sarah, and the new energized future of the GOP. Shocking I know.

Cheers!

4 posted on 09/05/2008 3:22:49 PM PDT by sevenbak (Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on. - Job 21:3)
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To: greyfoxx39

Let’s see the Golden Tablets!


5 posted on 09/05/2008 3:30:55 PM PDT by Leo Farnsworth (I'm not really Leo Farnsworth...)
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To: greyfoxx39
Question: Why does the Book Of Mormon always have to refer to the Bible for authenticity? The Bible doesn't use the BOM to prove its authenticity.

Question: Why is the BOM copyrighted? You can pick up any Bible and not see one. All you'll see is who published it.

Question: Why has the BOM been revised so many times when it claims to be the most perfect book since it was either an angle (Moroni) who told Joseph Smith what to write - there's several versions on how the BOM was translated from Reformed Egyptia ...?

It's interesting to note that the Bible begins with “In the beginning God ....” and the BOM starts with “I ...”

These questions have been respectfully submitted.

I also had the chance last summer on a trip back to Illinois to stop in the town where Joseph Smith was shot - saw the jail and the window where he was standing. Interesting place/museum. Jane

6 posted on 09/05/2008 3:43:18 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("What Our Enemies Couldn't Do To Us Our Liberal Democrat Politicians Will")
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To: Leo Farnsworth

I somehow lost my first reply, so I’ll try again:

If you do see them, please be sure to post the video on You Tube, because you will be the first person to ever see them. (Including Joseph Smith)


7 posted on 09/05/2008 3:44:26 PM PDT by MagnoliaMS
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To: greyfoxx39
Question: Why does the Book Of Mormon always have to refer to the Bible for authenticity? The Bible doesn't use the BOM to prove its authenticity.

Question: Why is the BOM copyrighted? You can pick up any Bible and not see one. All you'll see is who published it.

Question: Why has the BOM been revised so many times when it claims to be the most perfect book since it was either an angel (Moroni) who told Joseph Smith what to write - there's several versions on how the BOM was translated from Reformed Egyptia ...?

It's interesting to note that the Bible begins with “In the beginning God ....” and the BOM starts with “I ...”

These questions have been respectfully submitted.

I also had the chance last summer on a trip back to Illinois to stop in the town where Joseph Smith was shot - saw the jail and the window where he was standing. Interesting place/museum. Jane

8 posted on 09/05/2008 3:44:39 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("What Our Enemies Couldn't Do To Us Our Liberal Democrat Politicians Will")
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To: Birmingham Rain

Ping-a-rooney.


9 posted on 09/05/2008 3:47:04 PM PDT by MagnoliaMS
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To: MagnoliaMS

Amen, brother. Amen.


10 posted on 09/05/2008 3:47:56 PM PDT by Leo Farnsworth (I'm not really Leo Farnsworth...)
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To: SkyDancer
It's interesting to note that the Bible begins with “In the beginning God ....” and the BOM starts with “I ...”

VERY interesting point.

11 posted on 09/05/2008 3:51:55 PM PDT by MagnoliaMS
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To: MagnoliaMS; greyfoxx39

Interesting. I’m still trying to figure out whose god God’s is. (Hard to make sense of the question.) IOW, if God had to attain to the level of godhood to be God as we know Him, from whom did that godhood to which he was attaining originate???

Dang it. Gave myself a headache trying to get the question out!


12 posted on 09/05/2008 3:59:07 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: SkyDancer
There are various mormon apologetic sites that will answer your questions. In time, perhaps even a mormon FReeper will do so.

Here is one, on the BOM changes.

The mormons copyright everything they can, including Joseph Smith's "Inspired Version of the Bible"

Link

It's interesting to note that the Bible begins with “In the beginning God ....” and the BOM starts with “I ..”Well, you have to realize that the mormons believe "As man is, God once was..as God is man may become." To them, the God of this planet was, at one time an "I", and it is believed that Joseph Smith is now the god over his own planet.

13 posted on 09/05/2008 4:07:38 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: greyfoxx39

So how do they get away with saying they believe the way traditional Christians believe then do a flip and say what they really believe in their books that the average person doesn’t read ....


14 posted on 09/05/2008 4:11:25 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Warning - Hurricane Sarah Is Coming")
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To: greyfoxx39

Who was King Benjamin???

I dont remember him being mentioned in the Bible...


15 posted on 09/05/2008 4:13:54 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (McCain/Palin Now that's a ticket that deserves a tagline)
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To: MagnoliaMS; Leo Farnsworth

This is not meant as a silly question, MagnoliaMS, but if Mr Smith read these golden plates ...

Well, where the heck are they? What do the Mormons say about this?

Thanks!


16 posted on 09/05/2008 4:16:11 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: SkyDancer
So how do they get away with saying they believe the way traditional Christians believe then do a flip and say what they really believe in their books that the average person doesn’t read ....

With the advent of the internet, they are being challenged about the claim more and more.

You can see them label non-mormons "Mainstream Christians" on FR, thus being able to retain their identity as "special" (having the one "true" gospel) and still claim to be members of the greater Christian community.

17 posted on 09/05/2008 4:21:20 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Birmingham Rain; greyfoxx39
You'll have to ask someone who knows more than I do (that should be easy). But I think they were supposedly re-buried. Is that correct, greyfoxx?

Also, if memory serves, the ones who claimed to have seen them later recanted.

19 posted on 09/05/2008 4:25:00 PM PDT by MagnoliaMS
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To: greyfoxx39

“.....having the one “true” gospel”

Right. So this begs the question: If it’s the one true gospel why does it need the Bible to back it up? They’re always posting same passages (BOM vs Bible) - to prove a point.


20 posted on 09/05/2008 4:25:10 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Warning - Hurricane Sarah Is Coming")
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To: greyfoxx39

“The mormons copyright everything they can, including Joseph Smith’s “Inspired Version of the Bible” “

OOPS!

Let me rephrase:

Let’s see the Golden Tablets(c)!


21 posted on 09/05/2008 4:25:48 PM PDT by Leo Farnsworth (I'm not really Leo Farnsworth...)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Who was King Benjamin???
I dont remember him being mentioned in the Bible...

Click on the first link on my post 13 on BOM changes. You remember Benjamin...he's in the book of Mosiah.

22 posted on 09/05/2008 4:26:09 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: MagnoliaMS; greyfoxx39

Repudiation.

Something one never needs to contend with in Christianity.

Thank You, LORD.


23 posted on 09/05/2008 4:30:04 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: freeplancer
You are like a cyber mob that gains strength from each other snickering at your actions. Congrats.

Well, heck, yes, we certainly should be ashamed. You Mormons are just SO above doing such a thing, aren't you? You all set such a fine example.

Oh, the hypocrisy.

24 posted on 09/05/2008 4:33:20 PM PDT by MagnoliaMS
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To: greyfoxx39

You remember Benjamin...he’s in the book of Mosiah.
____________________________________________

OK

Oh, here he is in the Book of Hezekiah, too...

;)


25 posted on 09/05/2008 4:34:45 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (McCain/Palin Now that's a ticket that deserves a tagline)
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To: Birmingham Rain; Leo Farnsworth
"When some people interested in the Book of Mormon ask to see the golden plates, they are disappointed to learn that Joseph returned them to Moroni"

Official info on the plates here

26 posted on 09/05/2008 4:36:11 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: freeplancer

Uh. Nope.

Simply Christians trying to save souls of those who are falling for false teaching.

I’m not a coward — I’m a child of GOD.

Without a wink, I tell you I’m Presbyterian. And I grant you this, NO ONE is snickering; it’s too serious a matter.

If you care to debate or defend, let me know. Up to now, I’ve not got one straight answer from a Mormon.

BR


27 posted on 09/05/2008 4:36:35 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: SkyDancer
Ok, I have to admit that the first time I ever read the Book of Mosiah was today, when a Mosiah devotional thread was posted. After reading about 20 verses or so I had to burst out laughing, thinking “My God, this is just such an amateurish ripoff of ASSORTED verses from the King James bible.” I mean it was so ridiculous, so patently obvious.

Oh boy... Mormons (Ok, other than the initial charlatan huckster) are wonderful people but please... use some common sense when discerning what to believe.

28 posted on 09/05/2008 4:44:59 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited

Oh Yeah - my chief pilot is Mormon ..... been to Provo and the looks though on those kids frighten me - they have this unhealthy smile when they talk or look at you ... almost something out of a Stephen King (??) book .....


29 posted on 09/05/2008 4:47:42 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Warning - Hurricane Sarah Is Coming")
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To: AmericaUnited

I also think that Joseph Smith got tired of writing .... reason for lifting whole sections out of the Bible. I asked one Mormon how could Reformed Egyptian translate out as King James English - his reply was: It sounded more “Biblical” that way ...


30 posted on 09/05/2008 4:50:51 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("Warning - Hurricane Sarah Is Coming")
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To: freeplancer

If you’re so easily offended there are other, restricted forums, you know.


31 posted on 09/05/2008 4:51:42 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: freeplancer

One straight out question for you:

Did you join the Mormon “church” in your adult years or were you raised in it?

Thanks,

BR


32 posted on 09/05/2008 4:55:54 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: greyfoxx39
Cool link. I especially like the ‘D’ ring binder clips on ‘A Model of the Plates’ (about 2/3 of the way down the page).

Thanks! I am TOTALLY convinced now.

Wow.

I saw on TV once a cartoon of ‘Jerry’ hitting ‘Tom’ on the head with a frying pan. ‘Tom's’ head was reshaped into the exact shape OF THE FRYING PAN!!

It too, was a revelation.

Wow.

Have a great weekend(c).

33 posted on 09/05/2008 5:00:15 PM PDT by Leo Farnsworth (I'm not really Leo Farnsworth...)
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To: AmericaUnited

Good post, AU.

I feel more sympathy for those who were raised in Mormonism from childhood. I can see how years of this stuff would eventually take hold.

Those who were adults and got caught by it, however, I think would be easier to bring back to reality and thereby save their own children from going through the same hellish brainwashing by using more “common sense when discerning what to believe.”

Best Regards,

BR


34 posted on 09/05/2008 5:03:05 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: Tennessee Nana
This quote from the article confuses me: The miracle of forgiveness is available to all of those who turn from their evil doings and return no more, because the Lord has said in a revelation to us in our days, "go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth [meaning again] shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.” (D&C 82:7). Have that in mind, all of you who may be troubled with a burden of sin. (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places, pp. 184-185.)

Does Jesus teach that once you are forgiven of your sins, if you are not perfect and sinless from there on in, all your past sins will be lumped together in a big wad and dumped on your head...again?

I'd like to see the actual Bible reference for that. What is the Christian belief here? How about this?

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.

7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

35 posted on 09/05/2008 5:04:24 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: greyfoxx39

Forgot the reference in post 38...John 8:1-11


36 posted on 09/05/2008 5:06:45 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: greyfoxx39
Does Jesus teach that once you are forgiven of your sins, if you are not perfect and sinless from there on in, all your past sins will be lumped together in a big wad and dumped on your head...again? I'd like to see the actual Bible reference for that.

Danger Will Robinson!

Ez 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die therein.

37 posted on 09/05/2008 5:19:15 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited

Jesus’ teachings?


38 posted on 09/05/2008 5:27:32 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: greyfoxx39

Ez 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? None of his righteous deeds that he hath done shall be remembered: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

I don’t believe Jesus taught eternal salvation.


39 posted on 09/05/2008 5:32:31 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: count-your-change

Did you just join FR to say that?


40 posted on 09/05/2008 5:35:17 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: Birmingham Rain

No thanks, I don’t care to debate our religions. I don’t need to because I don’t have a problem with your beliefs. I respect you for following god and recognizing Jesus as our savior, and I respect that you love your denomination, in fact, I have even fought for your right to do so. I just wish that you were more tolerant and less insulting.


41 posted on 09/05/2008 5:38:11 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: AmericaUnited

What is the substitutionary atonement?


42 posted on 09/05/2008 5:38:39 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Sarah Palin -Jeri Thompson 2012)
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To: greyfoxx39

Does Jesus teach that once you are forgiven of your sins, if you are not perfect and sinless from there on in, all your past sins will be lumped together in a big wad and dumped on your head...again?

I’d like to see the actual Bible reference for that. _________________________________________________

There’s Bible references about something else happening to ours sins...and how God “deals” with us...

He has not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. Psalm 102:10-12

Who is a God like You, pardoning iniquity And passing over the transgression of the remnant of His heritage? He does not retain His anger forever, Because He delights in mercy. He will again have compassion on us, And will subdue our iniquities. You will cast all our sins into the depths of the sea. You will give truth to Jacob and mercy to Abraham, Which You have sworn to our fathers from days of old. Micah 7:18-20

Also...

Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. 2 Samuel 12:13

Lo, for my own welfare I had great bitterness; It is You who has kept my soul from the pit of nothingness, For You have cast all my sins behind Your back. Isaiah 38:17

I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, And I will not remember your sins. Isaiah 43:25

For behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes. Behold, I will engrave an inscription on it,’ declares the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. Zechariah 3:9

Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26


43 posted on 09/05/2008 5:39:45 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (McCain/Palin Now that's a ticket that deserves a tagline)
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To: MagnoliaMS
Unless you are Jesus, you are also a hypocrite, we all are.Also, Mormons are people so I imagine that you can find all sorts of faults.
44 posted on 09/05/2008 5:40:48 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: Birmingham Rain

I am 42 and joined the church in 1999.


45 posted on 09/05/2008 5:42:27 PM PDT by freeplancer
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To: AmericaUnited; greyfoxx39; Alamo-Girl; Elsie
Most born again Christians are very aware of the essential nature of the time line from the Old Testament to the New Testament.

The fact that the Temple curtain was rent while Christ was on the Cross was a significant miracle as well as a MAJOR DEMARCATION POINT IN THE CHRISTIAN TIME LINE.

Yet, the Book of Mormon makes NO note of this Covenantal shift.

IN fact, the Book of Mormon is a mishmash of Old and New Covenants.

This is a dangerous practice and set of beliefs in the End Times.

We cannot pretend we are under the Old Covenant, as Joseph Smith and friends did with their Office of the Old Testament Prophet, with their practice of Old Testament polygamy and their threats to people who left the Mormon faith of retribution by death.

But the fact that the Book Of Mormon, reportedly a version of history that takes place during a course of time before and after the Cross, makes not Covenantal differentiation is glaring giveaway that the source of the Mormon gospel is not God but Satan and a doctrine of demons.

I have no interest in arguing, it is just that the facts about Mormonism are so clear, and it saddens me because I love the Mormons I know.

It is the Betty Crocker/American Family Values part of Mormonism that is appealing but yet, this is not the Cross.

We cannot worship at the idol of American Family Values or the American Dream even, as true Christians, we only can worship at the Cross by taking up our cross and dying daily to self as we follow Jesus.

I just wish the Mormons on FR would get it that we are not trying to be “mean” to them — but only take our time here because we are AFRAID FOR THEIR SOULS. Because we know that those who “NO LONGER LOVE THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD” will be deluded by false prophets and false teachers.

In a spirit of Love wrapped in Truth, I just implore the Mormons on FR to really listen and realize what trouble anyone comes under when they add to, twist or present a “restoration” of the Gospel's “foundation that has already been laid” ... and cannot be “restored” or “laid again.”

It is a cry to the Mormons to just consider the truth of God's Eternal Word — that Mormonism contradicts. I write this in love because Jesus says He wills it that all should be saved (but the road is narrow and few take it.)0

I implore the Mormons on FR to get past our bickering and just look squarely at the very foundation of the Mormon faith and see that Smith could not be hearing from the Holy Spirit what he reports he did.

The Holy Spirit never contradicts Himself and never contradicts the Word of God. This is the basic reason that Mormonism is not from the Lord.

I speak in love to the Mormon Freepers, please just hear without taking offense. We are only writing because we want to see you in heaven as it is obvious that Joseph Smith did not “tremble at God's holy word” but instead did not test the spirits of the Angel Moroni but listened to a new gospel message that added on things to the Gospel and to the foundation that was already laid.

These acts themselves disqualify Smith from salvation and make him a false teacher of false doctrine that Jesus warns and warns and warns against.

PLEASE HEAR US MORMON FREEPERS!

46 posted on 09/05/2008 5:52:27 PM PDT by IreneE (Live for nothing or die for something.)
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To: freeplancer

Thank you, Freeplancer.

Not sure where I insulted you, but I grant you your right to believe it.

Here’s my problem, and it’s the same as many a poster here on the subject of Mormonism. Respectfully, I ask you how a Mormon can reconcile the beliefs put forth in the BOM with the Holy Bible?

In other words, when Joseph Smith claimed that he was greater than Jesus, how can a Mormon who believes the Holy Bible stand by it or justify it? Who’s the greatest? To me, the claim is a slap in the face as a Christian.

When God professes to be The Almighty, is He right or wrong? I ask because I don’t understand how Mormons can believe that God ATTAINED godhood. To whose status (or what god’s status) did HE, GOD ALMIGHTY, have to attain?

You see the problem I have?

I’m just looking for a straight answer and, believe me, there’s no insult towards you or ANY Mormon. NONE. YOU ARE LOVED AND YOUR SOUL IS SOUGHT AFTER BY JESUS CHRIST.

Please, if you will, relate how the Mormon church answers the claims put forth above. I would love to know what is actually believed because when I ask - when I post verbatim quotes of Mormons or Joseph Smith himself - I only get some ugly response.

Your post IS appreciated, Freeplancer.

Kind Regards,

BR


47 posted on 09/05/2008 5:57:40 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: freeplancer

“I just wish that you were more tolerant and less insulting.”


I’ve thought about your statement, Freeplancer.

At what cost should a person be “more tolerant and less insulting”?

At the cost of thousand precious souls? One hundred? Ten?

Even one?

At what cost should I say, “You know, I think I’ll keep the Truth to myself”?

‘Til the day I die, I hope I speak the Truth to YOU and to everyone else.

Let me ask you, will you at least try to see what we all are getting at? Will you try to answer the questions and put the Holy Bible up against the BOM just for a minute?

If you can’t do it, will you at least ask yourself why it’s too difficult to do so? If your belief is in Jesus Christ alone, it should not be hard to do at all.

Will you try to look to us as your friends who are trying to point you to Truth out of love for our Lord, who commands us so, out of love for you, and not your enemy?

If you can’t defend it (Mormonism), why not give a look at Jesus alone?

You state that you were of age when you joined the Mormon church. Did you have any religious background before then?

Finally, what does “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me,” mean in the Mormon way of thinking?

Thanks for any and all responses, Freeplancer.

BR


48 posted on 09/05/2008 6:20:36 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: IreneE

Your post is beautiful and full of truth.


49 posted on 09/05/2008 6:24:05 PM PDT by Birmingham Rain
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To: freeplancer

I certainly am NOT Jesus, and never claimed to be anything within a million miles of Him.

I will not argue the fact that we all have our faults. Of course we do. And I definitely do NOT hate Mormons, or anyone else for that matter. I do, however, believe with all my heart that Mormons have been completely misled by Joseph Smith and others of your leaders.

I have been trying for months now simply to understand how otherwise intelligent people can believe as you do. The Bible is not to be corrupted by either taking from or adding to it. Which is EXACTLY what Joseph Smith has done. I just cannot understand how people can believe him and his revised “Bible” rather than the Bible itself.

Thank you for your response. I’m out of here for tonight, but will check back in the morning.


50 posted on 09/05/2008 6:27:20 PM PDT by MagnoliaMS
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