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Despite his own injuries, priest gave last rites to crash victims
LA Times ^ | September 18, 2008 | Anna Gorman

Posted on 09/18/2008 11:29:05 AM PDT by Between the Lines

Still in a daze from the crash, Donald Ashman walked over to the first body.

Ashman knelt down and lifted a corner of a white blanket covering the body, placed his hand on the man's forehead and said the words he had said so many times before, almost always at a hospital:

"May God Almighty have mercy upon thee, forgive thee thy sins and bring thee to everlasting life."

The prayer took just a few seconds. Ashman returned the blanket and turned to the next victim, not far from the mangled Metrolink train.

He didn't know their names, their ages, their stories. He knew only that they had died and that they had probably been heading home to their families, as he was, after the workday.

Reflecting on that day now, Ashman also knows, as surely as he has known anything in his 62 years, why he was on that train and why he survived.

He was there to administer their last rites.

"I was where God intended me to be," Ashman said in an interview Wednesday from his home in Thousand Oaks.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Prayer
KEYWORDS: prayer
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-94 next last

1 posted on 09/18/2008 11:29:05 AM PDT by Between the Lines
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To: Between the Lines

Oh geez oh pete. Lord Love this good man. I pray someone so righteous is there as I breathe my last breath.


2 posted on 09/18/2008 11:39:08 AM PDT by netmilsmom (An Obama win? Move to AK, secede, drill, drill, drill!!!!!!)
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To: Between the Lines

Wow, that’s pretty wild. If I was a survivor I’d be saying “the worms will have a mighty feast this month!”


3 posted on 09/18/2008 11:41:39 AM PDT by Soothesayer (I'm breaking out of this hand basket!)
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To: Between the Lines
Please don't shoot me, this is an honest request! --

I see a similarity between this and the Mormon practice of baptizing for the dead which was brought up here a few days ago. In each case it seems one person is taking an action which (in their religious belief) will have some effect upon another in the afterlife. Could a kind Catholic please tell this Catholic-belief-challenged evangelical where this practice comes from, because I am not aware of it in the bible. And if it comes from tradition, that's OK, I just want to be better informed.

4 posted on 09/18/2008 11:57:46 AM PDT by ZGuy
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To: Between the Lines
I was on another thread where a few Catholics (and non-Catholics) were all up in arms because Mormons dared to pray for dead persons who had been Catholic (i.e. praying for their souls). So. . .question: Unless this priest made sure he was only giving last rights to Catholics, is what he did any different from what the some Mormons did?

I'm neither Catholic nor Morman, but neither practice offends me. I believe them to be useless as the individual's eternal destination has already been sealed once they breathe their last, but I certainly wouldn't get bent out of shape if someone performed either practice on behalf of a member of my family.

5 posted on 09/18/2008 12:02:56 PM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: ZGuy

If I read the article correctly - this priest is Anglican not Catholic.
Personally, being a Catholic, I still would have appreciated the prayers and annointing.


6 posted on 09/18/2008 12:06:48 PM PDT by MudPuppy (St Michael Protect Us!)
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To: Between the Lines

I’m not overly religious, but anybody is welcome to pray for me to anybody they feel like praying to.


7 posted on 09/18/2008 12:08:00 PM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: MEGoody
this priest was Anglican - not Catholic. Anglican Diocese
8 posted on 09/18/2008 12:08:43 PM PDT by MudPuppy (St Michael Protect Us!)
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To: dead

book mark


9 posted on 09/18/2008 12:17:04 PM PDT by P2B12
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To: ZGuy; Between the Lines
I don't know anything about the Mormon practice, so I can't make an informed comparison.

Catholics do not baptise the dead, nor administer any Sacrament to the dead. However, there are two aspects to consider: first, when death seems likely or imminent; and second, after death.

The Last Rites, which generally include Confession for those who are able, Communion for the Dying (called "Viaticum"), and Anointing of the Sick, are for the living who have been baptized and who are thus able to request and receive these Sacraments. If it is unknown whether a person is already dead or perhaps moments away from death, a simple blessing might be used, which is what this priest apparently did. He would have had no way of knowing for sure whether their souls had departed from their bodies.

On the other hand, if the person is already dead, we can still pray for their soul. This is because, as the Church teaches, all believers -- whether living on this earth, or departed ---are members of the Body of Christ, and thus have a living connection with each other.

We believe that nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, and nothing separates us from the love of each other in Christ. We still love people and care for them and pray for them, and they still love us, care for us and pray for us. In other words, we have a communion with each other --- called the "Communion of Saints" --- which is not broken by death.

All of this is through Christ, with Him, and in Him. We love people forever, not just until they die.

In term of Biblical references, in 2 Maccabees 12:43-46 it says this:

"[After the battle, Judas Maccabeus] sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.

(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead),

And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."

This illustrates the practice of praying for the dead under the old law, which was then strictly observed by the Jews of the Maccabee's time.

And of course, the Epistles of Paul are full of teachings that we are all living members of one Body, and that this spiritual relationship is stronger than death.

10 posted on 09/18/2008 12:29:17 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: Between the Lines; Salvation; NYer

I’m curious.... last rites AFTER the person has died, does it still apply?


11 posted on 09/18/2008 12:29:26 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: diamond6

This is done because no one actually knows when the soul leaves the body. So the last rites are administered even though the person is dead in case the soul is still part of the body. There’s no way of actually knowing, so it is done on the assumption that the soul is still salvageable.


12 posted on 09/18/2008 12:34:03 PM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: ZGuy
Oh,. I see now that the priest was Anglican, not Catholic.

Doesn't make a difference, really. Anglicans, Catholics, and Orthodox ---and many others --- would share these beliefs. In fact, the big majority of all Christians over the past 2,000 would have these same beliefs.

13 posted on 09/18/2008 12:34:08 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: ZGuy

Last Rites is one of the Catholic sacraments if that helps any. Though they say this priest was Anglican.


14 posted on 09/18/2008 12:37:09 PM PDT by Doctor Raoul (Fire the CIA and hire the Free Clinic, someone who knows how to stop leaks.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you!


15 posted on 09/18/2008 12:48:41 PM PDT by ZGuy
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To: ZGuy

He was anglican...


16 posted on 09/18/2008 12:53:54 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: Between the Lines; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; ...
Well worth reading the complete article at the above link.


Donald Ashman, seen at his Thousand Oaks home, is an Anglican priest who was a passenger on the Metrolink train that crashed Friday in Chatsworth. Though still in a daze from the collision, he administered last rites to people who died at the scene. (Al Seib / Los Angeles Times) September 17, 2008

17 posted on 09/18/2008 12:55:35 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

This priest is what they call a “traditional Anglican”, and more specifically he is a “high church” Anglican because he is under the jurisdiction of the Anglican Province of Christ the King. The APCK is quite orthodox and traditional — and quite “high” in practice, although they subscribe to the ‘28 prayerbook which is rather anti-Roman in spots. In other words, Catholic in all but name (as opposed to Catholic in name only).


18 posted on 09/18/2008 1:06:33 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies Auxiliary, recess appointment))
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To: Between the Lines
These days people should be happy their dead body doesn't get robbed.
19 posted on 09/18/2008 1:06:46 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (Sarah Palin 08 12 16 20)
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To: ahadams2; sc70; jpr_fire2gold; Tennessee Nana; QBFimi; Tailback; MBWilliams; showme_the_Glory; ...
Thanks to NYer for the ping. Fr. Ashman is an Anglican priest in my province, as noted here.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail Huber or sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (sometimes 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by Huber and sionnsar.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com
Humor: The Anglican Blue

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

20 posted on 09/18/2008 1:31:09 PM PDT by sionnsar (Obama?Bye-den!|Iran Azadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5 (SONY)| The New WSJ Magazine is disgusting)
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To: netmilsmom

About 8 years ago my youngest son was overcome with carbon monoxide poisoning at work. His fellow workers put him on a trailer while they waited for an ambulance. They said that his heart was beating so hard that it was raising his chest by inches. No-one knew what was wrong or what to do, but there was one man who knew that all he could do was pray.

After 2 hours on oxygen he finally regained conciousness and told the Dr. what was wrong with him and they checked and the Dr. said that even after that long on oxygen he still had a lethal dose and should be dead.

Anyhow, when he needed prayer most, God put someone there for him.


21 posted on 09/18/2008 1:52:14 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Thanks for that info about the High Church Anglicans: I like that “Catholic in all but name (as opposed to Catholic in name only).”


22 posted on 09/18/2008 1:57:27 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: MEGoody; greyfoxx39

Unless this priest made sure he was only giving last rights to Catholics, is what he did any different from what the some Mormons did?
______________________________________

Because he wasnt taking down names and adding them to the attendance rolls of his religion like the mormons do...

He wasnt making new Catholics...

And he didnt believe he was doing that...


23 posted on 09/18/2008 2:50:58 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (McCain/Palin Now that's a ticket that deserves a tagline)
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To: sionnsar

Thanks for the PING...

God Bless this precious man of God...


24 posted on 09/18/2008 2:54:09 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana (McCain/Palin Now that's a ticket that deserves a tagline)
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To: onedoug

ping


25 posted on 09/18/2008 2:56:06 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: Tennessee Nana; MEGoody
Unless this priest made sure he was only giving last rights to Catholics, is what he did any different from what the some Mormons did?

Mormons don't stop with baptism. The dead are confirmed as members of the mormon church by proxy, and other rituals are performed for the dead in their temples. The dead are given the choice as to whether to accept these ordinances or not.

 

BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD

Baptism for the dead is usually performed by Mormon youths between the ages of twelve and eighteen. Dressed in white clothes, the youth enters the baptismal font and stands upright. Using his (her) left hand, he (she) grasps his (her) own right wrist, and uses the fingers of the right hand to hold the nose shut while being immersed. The person performing the baptism stands at the left side of the youth and grasps the youth’s right hand with his left hand. He then raises his right arm to an angle of ninety degrees ands repeats the baptismal prayer. Following the prayer, he places his right hand on the youth’s back and supports him (her) during immersion, raising the youth quickly out of the water to an upright position again, when the ceremony is repeated several more times on behalf of other deceased persons.


Brother _______, having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you, for and in behalf of _______, who is dead, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

CONFIRMATION OF THE DEAD

Following baptism, the deceased must be confirmed a member of the Mormon Church. This ceremony does not have to be performed by the same proxy by the baptism, and usually isn’t. The proxy sits in a chair, and two Mormon Elders place their hands on the proxy’s head, and repeat the following, for each deceased person.

Brother _______, in the name of Jesus Christ, we lay our hands upon your head, for and in behalf of _______, who is dead, and confirm you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and say unto you, Receive the Holy Ghost. Amen.

.ORDINATION OF THE DEAD


This ceremony gives the Priesthood to the deceased.

Brother _______, having authority, we lay our hands upon your head, and confer upon you the Melchizedek Priesthood and ordain you an Elder in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for and in behalf of _______, who is dead, and seal upon you every grace, gift and authority appertaining to this office in the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood, for and in his behalf, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Link

 

An interesting story about baptism of our Founding Fathers.

Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (http://wind.prohosting.com/rlanwood/request2.htm)

Those who say that in this country one's religion should be relegated to his private life alone and never be allowed to "intrude" on his public activities should study the Founding Fathers. This nation has a spiritual foundation. Its wellsprings are themselves religious. Its life is deeply rooted in faith.


When I [Ezra Taft Benson]became President of the Twelve and Spencer W. Kimball became President of the Church, we met, just the two of us, every week after our Thursday meetings in the temple, just to be sure that things were properly coordinated between the Twelve and the First Presidency. After one of those first meetings, we talked about the many sacred documents in some of the older temples. St. George was mentioned in particular because St. George is our oldest temple in Utah. I had a stake conference down there about that time, and it was agreed that I would go into the archives -- the walk-in vault -- of that great temple and review the sacred documents that were there. We were planning for the remodeling and renovating of the St. George Temple and thought that the records might possibly be moved to Salt Lake for safekeeping. And there in the St. George Temple I saw what I had always hoped and prayed that someday I would see. Ever since I returned as a humble missionary and first learned that the Founding Fathers had appeared in that temple, I wanted to see the record. And I saw the record. They did appear to Wilford Woodruff twice and asked why the work hadn't been done for them. They had founded this country and the Constitution of this land, and they had been true to those principles. Later the work was done for them.

In the archives of the temple, I saw in a book, in bold handwriting, the names of the Founding Fathers and others, including Columbus and other great Americans, for whom the work had been done in the house of the Lord. This is all one great program on both sides of the veil. We are fortunate to be engaged in it on this side of the veil. I think the Lord expects us to take an active part in preserving the Constitution and our freedom.

The Founding Fathers of this nation, those great men, appeared within those sacred walls of the St. George Temple and had their vicarious work done for them. President Wilford Woodruff spoke of it in these words: "Before I left St. George, the spirits of the dead gathered around me, wanting to know why we did not redeem them. Said they, `You have had the use of the Endowment House for a number of years, and yet nothing has ever been done for us. We laid the foundation of the government you now enjoy, and we never apostatized from it, but we remained true to it and were faithful to God.'"

After he became President of the Church, President Wilford Woodruff declared that "those men who laid the foundation of this American government were the best spirits the God of heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits [and] were inspired of the Lord."

The temple work for the fifty-six signers of the Declaration of Independence and other Founding Fathers has been done. All these appeared to Wilford Woodruff when he was president of the St. George Temple. President George Washington was ordained a high priest at that time. You will also be interested to know that, according to Wilford Woodruff's journal, John Wesley, Benjamin Franklin, and Christopher Columbus were also ordained high priests at that time. When one casts doubt about the character of these noble sons of God, I believe he or she will have to answer to the God of heaven for it. Yes, with Lincoln I say: "To add brightness to the sun or glory to the name of Washington is . . . impossible. Let none attempt it. In solemn awe pronounce the name and in its deathless splendor, leave it shining on."



Source: Benson, Ezra Taft, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson. Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988. 602 -

 

26 posted on 09/18/2008 3:13:43 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. ( DBM)
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To: AnAmericanMother; sionnsar

APKC is of course, sionnsar’s province!


27 posted on 09/18/2008 4:26:19 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; AnAmericanMother

Note the traditional crucifix in the photo!


28 posted on 09/18/2008 4:27:54 PM PDT by Huber (And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. - John 1:5)
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To: Huber

Yes; that says something, doesn’t it?


29 posted on 09/18/2008 4:48:26 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that show us what we truly are. " -- J.K.Rowling)
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To: MEGoody
because Mormons dared to pray for dead persons

No. Baptizing dead Christians from lists of names isn't just praying for dead persons. Administering Last Rights to the body of someone mortally wounded (even apparently deceased) is not the same thing as praying for the dead. But you probably knew that.

30 posted on 09/18/2008 4:53:08 PM PDT by delacoert
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To: delacoert
Last Rights Rites.
31 posted on 09/18/2008 4:59:01 PM PDT by delacoert
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To: Between the Lines
I was very moved by the whole account printed in this article.

The last line of the article says, "Ashman said he plans to return to preaching this weekend. He doesn't know if he'll talk about the crash but expects to talk about healing, of both body and soul."

32 posted on 09/18/2008 5:42:09 PM PDT by delacoert
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To: Between the Lines

The Catholic church welcomes and annoints ‘em on the way in and annoints ‘em again on the way out. Well, on the way to Heaven. Birth to death covering.


33 posted on 09/18/2008 5:47:05 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: Huber
Note the traditional crucifix in the photo!

Then I can only surmise that the fellow in the picture is NOT a vampire!

34 posted on 09/18/2008 6:29:40 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Between the Lines

Very nice.

This reminds me of the only good part of the Apostle....the very beginning at the car wreck.

God bless....I’m not Catholic but I sure wouldn’t mind that last blessing-prayer.


35 posted on 09/18/2008 6:32:31 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Between the Lines

You can’t give “last rites” to the dead. It has to be given conditionally where it is not known if the person is dead or still alive.


36 posted on 09/18/2008 6:38:14 PM PDT by arthurus (Old age and guile beats youth and enthusiasm.)
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To: MEGoody
I am Catholic and that is correct. Once one is dead there is no repentance and there is no efficacy to baptism.
37 posted on 09/18/2008 6:42:09 PM PDT by arthurus (Old age and guile beats youth and enthusiasm.)
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To: Between the Lines

God bless Father Ashman.


38 posted on 09/18/2008 9:23:48 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ZGuy

This is the administration of the Annointng of the Sick — a Sacrament. It is given to the living, not the dead.

The dead can be prayed for, but there is no baptism or sacrament after they die. At the moment of their death, (the particular judgment, is what Catholics call it.) they meet Jesus. No time for anything then.


39 posted on 09/18/2008 9:25:54 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ZGuy; NYer
Here is some background information on Catholic beliefs posted by NYer.

A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 19: The Seven Sacraments

The Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick used to be called Extreme Unction.

A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 27: The Sacrament of Extreme Unction

40 posted on 09/18/2008 9:29:10 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: diamond6; Mrs. Don-o

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2085230/posts?page=10#10

I think Mrs. Don-O has your answer.


41 posted on 09/18/2008 9:31:08 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Thankyou!


42 posted on 09/18/2008 10:01:17 PM PDT by diamond6 (Is SIDS preventable? www.stopsidsnow.com)
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To: delacoert
Administering Last Rights to the body of someone mortally wounded (even apparently deceased) is not the same thing as praying for the dead.

If the person being given the last rights hasn't been verified as Catholic and/or hasn't asked for 'last rights', I see no difference between doing that a having the Mormons do a 'baptism for the dead' for someone who isn't Mormon and hasn't asked for it.

Like I said, neither offends me. . .but I don't see any difference between the two scenarios from an 'ethical' perspective either.

43 posted on 09/19/2008 6:23:01 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: greyfoxx39
Mormons don't stop with baptism. The dead are confirmed as members of the mormon church by proxy, and other rituals are performed for the dead in their temples.

Doesn't matter to me. The person is dead and his/her eternal destiny has already been sealed.

The dead are given the choice as to whether to accept these ordinances or not.

Um, how are the dead to make a choice?

44 posted on 09/19/2008 6:24:56 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Because he wasnt taking down names and adding them to the attendance rolls of his religion like the mormons do.

Oh, big deal. The write down the name of a dead person. I still don't see any difference.

45 posted on 09/19/2008 6:25:54 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: MEGoody
Um, how are the dead to make a choice?

That's the point, isn't it? According to mormons, that makes it justifiable for the "temple work" of baptism of millions who passed on without being exposed to the "restored gospel" of Joseph Smith.

Of course, no one, including the descendants of many of these dead, has given permission for these rituals to be performed, and many are insulted at the liberties taken in doing this.

46 posted on 09/19/2008 6:46:22 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 ("I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve. ( DBM)
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To: greyfoxx39
Of course, no one, including the descendants of many of these dead, has given permission for these rituals to be performed, and many are insulted at the liberties taken in doing this.

True, and some might be insulted if a priest were to give last rights to a member of their family without their permission/request.

47 posted on 09/19/2008 7:24:57 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: MudPuppy
this priest was Anglican

Okay. Doesn't change the ethical questions involved.

48 posted on 09/19/2008 7:26:38 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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To: MEGoody

It may not matter to you, but many people would find it offensive to have themselves confirmed a member of a church they heartily disagree with after their dead (and their loved ones may well too). Of course, I don’t personally think it does me any damage, but so what? It’s not you or my personal feelings on having this done that matters. What matters is that apparently many Catholics do not want their names added to the Mormon Church after they die. Those wishes should be respected.
If the Catholic Church starts adding dead people to their rolls, I will take issue with them as well.
susie


49 posted on 09/19/2008 9:28:10 AM PDT by brytlea (Obama--Keep the change!)
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To: brytlea
It may not matter to you, but many people would find it offensive to have themselves confirmed a member of a church they heartily disagree with after their dead

And as I've already stated, many people would find it offensive to have 'last rites' administered by a priest from a church they heartily disagree with. From an ethical perspective, I see no difference between the two actions.

50 posted on 09/19/2008 10:12:38 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall cause you to vote against the Democrats.)
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