??
Posted on 09/21/2008 9:45:44 PM PDT by Coleus
ANSWER: According to the website of the Global Catholic Network the answer seems to be Palin. The site states that "once a person willingly repudiates Christ, embraces a heresy, knowing it to be contrary to divine and Catholic faith, or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff (or communion with the members of the Church subject to him), by virtue of the law itself they are automatically excommunicated. No ecclesiastical act is necessary and no public notice."
Palin was baptized Catholic according to the McCain campaign. Her abandonment of Catholicism and subsequent attendance at other churches that question Catholic orthodoxy seems to fit this definition of heresy:
"Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same ..."
As for Biden, he's close to the edge but seems not to have gone over it. He has been warned about his behavior in failing to endorse legislation to outlaw abortion, but he has not been formally excommunicated.
Another trivia question: What other reported finalist for the Republican vice-presidential nomination also meets the above definition for self-excommunication from the Catholic Church?
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.nj.com ...
I guess I am a heretic as well as I was baptized as a catholic when I was born. (complications so I guess it was also last rites)
Since her parents took her out of the Church at age 12, I think there is diminished responsibility than if an adult were to leave the Church.
She’s more of a Catholic than Biden. Biden excommunicates himself for supporting infanticide.
What is the point of this article?
Better an ex-Catholic than a current moron.
The stealth point seems to be damaging her reputation with Catholics and making Biden not seem so apostate. It won’t work.
The website of Global Catholic Network says absolutely nothing about Sarah Palin. The page linked in the article is nothing more than a discussion of Church teachings.
Apparently though, Paul Mulshine has taken it upon himself to speak for the Catholic Church as to whether Sarah Palin has been excommunicated or not, based upon a website on the internet.
I think Paul Mulshine should let the Church hierarchy speak on matters related to Governor Palin’s alleged excommunication. And as a matter of fact, I'm almost positive that the Church hierarchy has nothing to say about Governor Palin because she is no longer a practicing Catholic, and hasn't been since she was a child.
So Paul Mulshine should just shut his yap about something he knows nothing about, and on an issue upon which he has no authority to speak.
I'm reminded, in some way, of FLDS polygamists who MUST agree with the every word of their "so-called" prophet.
In either case, freedom of intelligent thought is denied.
Sounds like the girlie-man has had a bad day. Gads.
What a hit piece. A celebrity no less stellar than Princess Grace of Monaco once stated “As a Christian I believe I’ve improved over the years...I may not be the best Catholic.”
Who is this piehole, and why should we care what he thinks about Sarah Palin?
Sowing division among brothers is something that God hates, and the last thing we need right now are Christians fighting over doctrine.
Is this really smart of the Star-Trib to publish? Being in the heart of Lutheran country and all?
What is this guys problem? This is the second inane, nitpicking piece he has written about Gov. Palin.
Osamabama was born a Muslim, correct (the father's faith determines the son's in Islam)?
Muslims who abandon Islam are, and always have been for 13 centuries, subject to sanctions and/or 'fatwas' from the mullahs. No exception is made for 'childhood' abadonment of 'The Faith'.
Osamabama makes much of his presumptive 'Christian' faith. He has, by his own testimony, abandoned Islam and, as such, is an apostate in the eyes of Islam.
Islam has not sanctioned Osamabama in any fashion.
Therefore, assuming only that Islam is consistent in its practice regarding apostates, he is still a Muslim, but pretending not to be, and is practicing taqqiyah, the Islamic instruction to deceive the infidel in the name of the Faith.
Any Islamists here care to argue with the reasoning above?
Nam Vet
This is the 2nd column by the same author running the thrads now. He seems not to like Gov. Palin.
When one thinks of it, if her parents left the Catholic Church when she was 12, that would be 32 years ago, coinciding with the effects of the Vatican Council 2 which was something of an abomination to traditional Catholics.
Perhaps someone from DU hacked Coleus’s FR account and want to discredit Palin among FR Catholics by pointing out that Sarah is a heretic, just like the rest of Biblical Christianity?
So, would you say that once a dead Catholic has been baptized into the LDS Church by some pimply faced Mormon in a Mormon Temple, do they then fit your definition of a heretic?
Posts like this just show the rampant hatred of the Proddie Bashers(TM) here on FR.
No where in the Bible does it state that one is to submit to a Pope or an Apostle.
We are to submit to Christ. The Catholic church believes the Pope, the sinful man he is, is equivalent to Christ.
Not so.
Then there's not a denial of freedom of intelligent thought. There's only a statement that that freedom can be misused. One is free to reach an incorrect conclusion, that is, one we deem incorrect. Any Catholic is free to disagree with the Catholic Church. And there are consequences for that disagreement. (Ninja nuns climbing the walls after midnight on stealth missions of mayhem ....)(Okay. Maybe not.)
And, speaking of intelligent thought, the word "excommunicate" is used in popular culture in such a way as to inhibit intelligent thought. Right now, if, arguendo, Gov. Palin is excommunicated, as I suppose she is, she is being deprived of something she doesn't want anyway. She has, for one reason or another, turned away from the sacraments of the Church. And the Church responds by denying them to her. How dreadful is it when I refuse to give you what you don't want? How vindictive and vengeful is that?
So, touching your first question, who exactly is requiring Gov. Palin to adhere to the "religion" in which she was baptized?
Also, one is blessed enough to be born, without one's consent, a US citizen, or a member of this or that family. One is free upon attaining one's majority, to renounce ties to either. But should someone deliberately renounce his U.S. Citizenship, shall we allow him to vote?
Gov. Palin's excommunication could be taken care of easily if she wanted. A few conferences with a priest, maybe some classes, sacramental confession, affirmation of the Catholic Church, and blammo, excommunication lifted. No stakes or firewood involved. Take your marshmallows back home, we won't be roasting them tonight.
This is a falsehood. Astonishing! No, we don't; never have, never will.
One of the things that encourages me to remain Catholic is to read falsehoods like this one. Evidently the father of Lies is against us. That makes for unpleasant disagreements, but it also makes it pretty clear where the truth is.
ProddieBashers®registered trademark.
heh heh heh. Have a nice contention free day, bro!
YAWN.... The only part of this “thing” was a reminder about Congressman Miller. Biden comes closer to being “excomuicated” because his Archbishop has refused him communion of course that doesn’t fit the “silly spin” this lefty is making....http://www.theusmat.com
Wake me up when it's over, please.
The effects of Vatican II, which ended in 1965, didn't take until 1976 to manifest themselves.
You need to quit reading Jack Chick, unless of course you enjoy coming across as a fool.
According to Wikipedia, her parents joined Wasilla Assembly of God when she was 4. Either way, she is incapable of being excommunicated for joining a non-Catholic church at that age, because:
Can. 1323 The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept:Further provisions exempt from sentence in case of ignorance, inadvertence or error.
1/ a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;
Not only does Mulshine attack Palin, he slanders the Catholic Church as unjust and uncharitable.
Really sad. She is the one PROVEN pro-life candidate, and one of only three outspoken pro-life candidates....McCain/Palin & Baldwin.
Obama is willing to kill babies even after they are born.
Okay Mad, what does this mean:
“or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff...”
We are to submit to Christ, not the “Roman Pontiff.”
It’s astonishing the falsehoods Catholics say!
Sarah’s family left the Catholic Church when she was young. She seems happy where she is and her views are in line with Catholic teaching on EVERY critical subject.
This article is nothing more than a ploy to diminish Sarah’s appeal to Catholics and it WILL NOT WORK.
Who knows what work the Lord has done in this baptized child. She certainly has aligned herself with Catholic teaching.
To be honest with you, Wagglebee, I don’t know if a Catholic church existed in Wasilla, Alaska, when the Palin’s moved there from Idaho, or, if it did whether it was staffed year round. I do know that she was a young child at the time, so I doubt she had much (if any) involvement in the change.
One thing I discovered in the Army Chaplaincy was that sometimes when in the field I was the only chaplain around and those of other denominations (including Catholic) came to my general protestant service. I know, too, that many protestants would go to the Catholic chaplain’s service when he was the only one around in his area.
To start a Holy War.
Libs and their divide and conquer tactics...
Sarah Palin’s view are more “Catholic” than ANY national candidate since Reagan (and he wasn’t Catholic either, though I believe his brother was).
Here is a link to the Catholic parish in Wasilla, I can’t find anything about whether or not it was there thirty or so years ago, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t.
http://www.sacredheartwasilla.org/
1. The buildings pictured at the link you provided look new.
2. This newsletter item about schools, suggests that they are new:
Strong start for Valley schoolOur Lady of the Valley is the system’s newest school. Located in a former strip mall in Wasilla, the preschool through 8th grade venture opened last year to an enthusiastic welcome by Valley Catholics, finishing its first year with 50 students. By the end of July more than 60 had enrolled, with principal Suzanne Cyr scheduling more parent interviews almost daily.
“Our inaugural year was a rousing success,” said Cyr, who added that anyone interested in the school is invited to a picnic Aug. 17 from 1-3 p.m.
A fundraiser auction last spring netted resources for brand new playground equipment. The Mat-Su school serves St. Michael Church in Palmer, Sacred Heart Church in Wasilla and Our Lady of the Lake Church in Big Lake.http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:ESvqGP6IYmEJ:www.catholicanchor.org/local.html+big+lake+alaska+catholic+church+fournier&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
Remember Rip Van Winkle? Ever wonder why HE slept so long? :D
I know that until fairly recently, the main Catholic focus in Alaska (outside of Anchorage and a couple other larger cities) was Jesuit missionary work with the Eskimos (I think we can still call them that). My guess is that the smaller towns were served by some traveling priests who were in town once a month or so and said mass in a non-Catholic church.
I agree that the church in the picture looks very new and it is doubtful that a town of less than 10,000 would have outgrown their previous church (and that is the only reason I can think of, other than a fire or disaster, why they would need to either build a new church or make major renovations).
Sarah Palin’s view are more “Catholic” than ANY national candidate since Reagan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Certainly. And much more than Biden’s view.
It seems to me that the correct way of looking at this would be to say that, if Palin was actually a baptized Catholic, both Palin and Biden have incurred ipso facto excommunication (in Palin's case, for heresy - or apostasy if she was "rebaptized"; and in Biden's, for facilitating abortion), and not that Palin has been formally excummunicated and Biden not excommunicated at all.
I may not undertand your reply. But many of the changes in the Church that began with the 2nd Vatican Council that were so disconcerting to more traditional Catholics took years to go into effect. They then had to grapple with those changes over a period of time. People don’t just walk away from their birth religion overnight. So I can easily see how a family that could no longer identify with the Church as they knew it would take till ‘76 to make a final decision to leave and to find another church.
Sarah Palin seems to be the only follower of the Christ on either ticket.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai
Perhaps Coleus wants to expose Mulshine as an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
You're darn right it isn't so: the Catholic Church does NOT teach or believe this.
Who are you to judge that?
“or refuses submission to the Roman Pontiff...”
We are to submit to Christ, not the “Roman Pontiff.”
It’s astonishing the falsehoods Catholics say!
Imagine for a moment you are a Private in the United States Army. You are required to follow any lawful order given by the President. You are also required to follow any lawful order given by your Commanding Officer. Are the President and your Lieutenant equal?
Here's the answer...NO! The Officer receives his authority from the President. The Pope receives his authority from Christ. Hierarchies are natural in God's Creation (see: food chain, angels, etc.) - why would His Church be any different?
??
Who are you to judge that “Sarah Palin seems to be the only follower of the Christ on either ticket?”
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