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Notre Dame Tenured Theologian McBrien Blasts Bishops
Catholic Online ^ | 10/8/2008 | Catholic PRWire

Posted on 10/08/2008 10:52:19 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

MANASSAS, VA (OCTOBER 8, 2008) - Father Richard McBrien, the Crowley-O'Brien Professor of Roman Catholic Theology at the University of Notre Dame, ripped into the hierarchy of the Catholic Church at a talk given at a Unitarian church in Kansas City recently. According to an article today, October 7, 2008 in the National Catholic Reporter, McBrien said Pope John Paul II’s greatest failing was naming bishops.

“Father McBrien’s blatant disregard and contempt for the leadership of the Catholic Church is nothing new,” said Patrick J. Reilly, President of The Cardinal Newman Society. “Until Notre Dame and other Catholic colleges are rid of such jaded liberal theologians, the renewal of Catholic higher education can never be complete.”

During the question and answer segment of his talk, Father McBrien sharply criticized the life-long office of the Papacy, characterizing it as tyrannical. He compared the pontificate of John Paul II to an imaginary lifetime Bush presidency, where as many appointments of jurists to US courts could be made as desired.

“That's exactly what Pope John Paul II -- or any other pope for that matter -- was able to do in his long term of office, and that is why the Catholic church finds itself today . . . with such a dearth of pastoral leadership," said McBrien.

The Notre Dame professor added that John Paul II’s greatest failing as Pope lies in the bishops he named.

“Men were appointed bishops or promoted within the hierarchy on the basis of loyalty to the Holy See rather than on the basis of pastoral aptitude, theological sophistication and leadership skills,” quipped McBrien.

McBrien attacked the US Bishops, who steadfastly urge Catholics to vote pro-Life, for supposedly violating guidelines set out in USCCB documents. Such guidelines specify that the bishops do not “wish to

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: anticatholicfetish

1 posted on 10/08/2008 10:52:19 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

So he wants abortionists to unite?

Just what exactly does he wish from the Church.

Oh, I get it. He wishes for CHANGE you can believe in.


2 posted on 10/08/2008 10:55:09 AM PDT by Carley (she's all out of caribou.............but does have a bracelet!!!!)
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To: Alex Murphy

McBrien was openly living with a woman in South Bend and Ted Hesburgh knew it.

Just saying.


3 posted on 10/08/2008 10:55:58 AM PDT by prolifefirst
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To: Alex Murphy

It’s just SEW not FAYur that J2P2 appointed bishops who believed the teachings of the Church!


4 posted on 10/08/2008 10:56:49 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Carley

McBrian brought a Marquette “ethicist” to campus to argue that the Catholic tradition allows for abortion.

He got killed in a debate.


5 posted on 10/08/2008 10:57:31 AM PDT by prolifefirst
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To: Mad Dawg

Took this guy as an undergrad and he announced to the class that he didn’t have time to answer any questions outside of class. We had to go to his grad students.

Only teacher at ND that ever did that that I heard of.


6 posted on 10/08/2008 11:00:23 AM PDT by prolifefirst
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To: Alex Murphy
McBrien is a Protestant in All But Name (PABN) ... I note that he delivered his remarks at a Unitarian church.

Intellectual honesty would suggest that he join them.

7 posted on 10/08/2008 11:02:55 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I am not Catholic so am somewhat ignorant of how the rules work in that organization. I would like someone who knows to answer a question I have. Why are people like this man not excommunicated?


8 posted on 10/08/2008 11:06:04 AM PDT by scory
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To: Alex Murphy
Father Richard McBrien ... ripped into the hierarchy of the Catholic Church at a talk given at a Unitarian church

McBrien should stay in the Unitarian church.

9 posted on 10/08/2008 11:06:07 AM PDT by Campion
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To: scory

End times, anything goes now.


10 posted on 10/08/2008 11:11:55 AM PDT by JZelle
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To: prolifefirst

Well, of COURSE! I mean he is so wise and good that he knows better than the Church. How could he be expected to trouble himself with his duty to his students? YOU’ve got a nerve, thinking that so great a man could spare the time to deal with insignificant scum like you.


11 posted on 10/08/2008 11:12:01 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Alex Murphy

OMG!!! He’s needs DE-FROCKING!


12 posted on 10/08/2008 11:16:37 AM PDT by Ann Archy (AbortiDUH!!!on.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: All
KEYWORDS: anticatholicfetish; Click to Add Keyword

I see one of the New Inquisidores has left their mark!

13 posted on 10/08/2008 11:20:07 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: Alex Murphy
quipped McBrien.

About all he's good for. He's as irrelevant as the rest of the former Flower Children.

14 posted on 10/08/2008 11:29:32 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Alex Murphy

Alex.....you are true to yourself..... anti-Catholic threads almost always have your fingerprints on them! You must be so proud.


15 posted on 10/08/2008 11:30:38 AM PDT by Ann Archy (AbortiDUH!!!on.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Campion
McBrien should stay in the Unitarian church.

As soon as I saw, "at a talk given at a Unitarian church", I thought the same thing. = D

16 posted on 10/08/2008 11:33:05 AM PDT by murphE ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." - GK Chesterton)
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To: Alex Murphy

LOL!! Whoever did that NAILED you!! You really do have an anti-Catholic Fetish......small rocks, Alex.....small rocks.


17 posted on 10/08/2008 11:36:15 AM PDT by Ann Archy (AbortiDUH!!!on.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Ann Archy
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

Making the thread "about" another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

19 posted on 10/08/2008 11:37:59 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Alex Murphy; prolifefirst
“That's exactly what Pope John Paul II -- or any other pope for that matter -- was able to do in his long term of office, and that is why the Catholic church finds itself today . . . with such a dearth of pastoral leadership," said McBrien.

Speaking of overly long terms in office, has anybody heard that McBrien is going to set an example and forsake his tenure at Notre Dame?

Neither have I.

Term limits for the Pope and tenure for "sophisticated" (don't you love that word) theologians, such as moi. That's McBrien's motto.

“Men were appointed bishops or promoted within the hierarchy on the basis of loyalty to the Holy See rather than on the basis of pastoral aptitude, theological sophistication and leadership skills,” quipped McBrien.

IOW, fidelity to Catholic teaching is incompatible with a true pastoral approach. Got that?

Oh, and no questions, OK? I'm a busy man.

20 posted on 10/08/2008 11:38:42 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Religion Moderator
You DO know that's what Alen Murphy ALWAYS does, don't you??

If not, I will say from now on that there is a Freeper who is a Rabid anti-Catholic......I NEVER see anyone else posting anything like this......I REALLY hope as a Religion Mod that you are aware and maybe just say SOMETHING to Alex.....can I count on you to be fair?

21 posted on 10/08/2008 11:45:54 AM PDT by Ann Archy (AbortiDUH!!!on.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ann Archy

As a ND grad who knows that Rev. McBrien is a scandal and that ND is mostly secular, I don’t see how this thread is anti-catholic, just pro-truth.

(I’m not familiar with the poster, but don’t have to be to see the truth of the scandal that this priest and school represent.)


22 posted on 10/08/2008 11:50:37 AM PDT by prolifefirst
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To: Ann Archy
There is no excuse for making a thread "about" another Freeper. No ganging up on a Freeper is tolerable.

Of course Freepers have very, very deep disagreements about theology - airing those disagreements is the purpose of "open" threads in the Religion Forum.

If you are offended by open threads, then stay away from them and post instead to the Religion Forum threads marked "ecumenical" "caucus" "devotional" or "prayer."

23 posted on 10/08/2008 11:52:40 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Ann Archy; Alex Murphy

This thread isn’t anti-Catholic. It’s anti-Catholic to sweep McBrien’s scandal under the rug. It’s anti-Catholic to keep McBrien as a tenured theologian at a supposedly-Catholic university. (Yes, ND alums, I just called the ND administration anti-Catholic. Please turn ND back into a Catholic university so I can send my kids there.)


24 posted on 10/08/2008 11:53:37 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Ann Archy; Alex Murphy

This thread isn’t anti-Catholic. It’s anti-Catholic to sweep McBrien’s scandal under the rug. It’s anti-Catholic to keep McBrien as a tenured theologian at a supposedly-Catholic university. (Yes, ND alums, I just called the ND administration anti-Catholic. Please turn ND back into a Catholic university so I can send my kids there.)


25 posted on 10/08/2008 11:53:37 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Alex Murphy

I thought McBrien was dead?


26 posted on 10/08/2008 1:11:30 PM PDT by veritas2002
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To: Ann Archy
You DO know that's what Alen Murphy ALWAYS does, don't you??

If not, I will say from now on that there is a Freeper who is a Rabid anti-Catholic......I NEVER see anyone else posting anything like this......I REALLY hope as a Religion Mod that you are aware and maybe just say SOMETHING to Alex.....can I count on you to be fair?

Please ping me when you talk about me.

27 posted on 10/08/2008 1:22:33 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: Alex Murphy; Ann Archy
***Please ping me when you talk about me***

Evidently she was talking about Alen Murphy. Is he related to you?

28 posted on 10/08/2008 1:27:24 PM PDT by Gamecock (Sadistic preachers don't talk about Hell.)
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To: Alex Murphy

**I see one of the New Inquisidores has left their mark!**

It would seem that only Catholics can post anti-Catholic material, and then only hiding behind a “Caucus” designation.

If a Proddie dares to post such an article, then they are a branded as having an anticatholicfetish. Sounds a lot like the accusation certain race hate mongers make.


29 posted on 10/08/2008 1:32:39 PM PDT by Gamecock (Sadistic preachers don't talk about Hell.)
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To: Gamecock
Sounds a lot like the accusation certain race hate mongers make.

...funny you should say that...

30 posted on 10/08/2008 1:38:27 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: Alex Murphy; Gamecock

Don’t pick at the scab.


31 posted on 10/08/2008 1:39:53 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Alex Murphy

And the Catholic church tolerates people like this because? I may be wrong, but don’t preists basically serve at the leisure of the Pope? Ther eisn’t some kind of union, can never be fired, deal in place is there?


32 posted on 10/08/2008 2:40:43 PM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: Religion Moderator
Apparently my comment went over the heads of several people. The fact that there are some rogue Priests teaching at/presiding over Catholic universities is not something new under the sun.

Plus a tenured one at that left me to point out what is the big deal/point of posting the article in the first place.

33 posted on 10/08/2008 4:17:33 PM PDT by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: Alex Murphy

McBrien is a Catholic in Name Only who has been named as a dissident. I’ll provide the link when I get back from church.

(Imagine a Catholic going to Church on a Wednesday evening in addition to Sunday Mass? LOL!!!)


34 posted on 10/08/2008 4:52:20 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Alex Murphy
I saw this earlier today and had to wait until I got home to comment:

McBrien's mandatum needs to be revoked. He spouts heresy at every friggin turn.

35 posted on 10/08/2008 9:00:29 PM PDT by Desdemona (Lipstick only until the election. The gloss has been sacrificed for the greater good.)
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To: vpintheak
And the Catholic church tolerates people like this because? I may be wrong, but don’t preists basically serve at the leisure of the Pope? Ther eisn’t some kind of union, can never be fired, deal in place is there?

No, priests do not serve at anyone's leisure. It's kind of hard to explain without going into a long explanation on Apostolic succession and how it all works.

Notre Dame is run by the Fathers of the Holy Cross and without looking at his bio, I would take a wild guess that McBrien is one of them (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). He gets a lot of attention because what he says is "controversial". Any good Catholic would call it heresy. As McBrien is a member of an order and is not a diocesan priest, it's up to his order to discipline him.

In order to teach theology in a Catholic university, an individual needs a written decree from the Vatican called a Mandatum, meaning this person is not a radical and doesn't teach heresy. In the 20th century, more than one famous theologian's mandatum was revoked. It can be done and, IMO, it should be done in this case.

36 posted on 10/08/2008 9:10:28 PM PDT by Desdemona (Lipstick only until the election. The gloss has been sacrificed for the greater good.)
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To: vpintheak
I may be wrong, but don't preists basically serve at the leisure of the Pope?

No, they're responsible to their immediate superiors.

The more important question is why he's still on the theology faculty at a supposedly-Catholic university.

37 posted on 10/08/2008 9:28:34 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Desdemona
In order to teach theology in a Catholic university, an individual needs a written decree from the Vatican called a Mandatum, meaning this person is not a radical and doesn't teach heresy.

Des, that's the way it's supposed to work. But, at a lot of schools, they don't bother to enforce the requirement for the Mandatum. I'm quite sure that McBrien doesn't have one, and couldn't get one.

Steubenville is very proud of the fact that everyone on their theology faculty has the mandatum. They're one of very few schools in the US that can make that claim.

38 posted on 10/08/2008 9:31:07 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Alex Murphy
There are three listings for Richard McBrien>Dissent>Authors and Speakers

 
 

Women Priests

 Fr. Richard McBrien Claims that a future Pope must overturn the infallible document disallowing women "priests" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis).
 
 
Theology Incompatible with the Catholic Faith
Fr. Richard McBrien Says, among other things, that Jesus did not establish the Catholic Church, and calls into question the virginal conception of Jesus and the perpetual virginity of Our Lady, and promotes dissent.
 
 

Public Supporters of Dissident Organizations

Fr. Richard McBrien Supporter of Call to Action.

39 posted on 10/08/2008 9:57:03 PM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: prolifefirst
McBrian(sic) brought a Marquette “ethicist” to campus to argue that the Catholic tradition allows for abortion.

Was it ex-priest and heretic Daniel C. Maguire?

40 posted on 10/09/2008 7:09:38 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: scory
Because the episcopacy of the Church is rife with cowards.
41 posted on 10/09/2008 7:26:38 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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McBrien said Pope John Paul II’s greatest failing was naming bishops.

One of his greatest failings was in not dismissing McBrien from the clerical state.

42 posted on 10/09/2008 7:30:42 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Desdemona

Thanks for the explaination. I agree with the mandatum being revoked then I guesss. This guy is preaching the social politics of marx.


43 posted on 10/09/2008 8:23:44 AM PDT by vpintheak (Like a muddied spring or a polluted well is a righteous man who gives way to the wicked. Prov. 25:26)
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To: Desdemona

McBrien is a diocesan priest from Connecticut. He only gets attention because he’s a heretic. Two sets of people seem to pay attention to him, anti-Catholics and Catholics who want Notre Dame to be more like a seminary.

Granted he is a blemish on anybodies faculty but every university has it’s tenured crackpots.

Unless I’m severely mistaken McBrien doesn’t need a mandatum (they come from the Bishop not Rome) because he doesn’t teach in the fields designated as theological disciplines.


44 posted on 10/09/2008 8:29:14 AM PDT by Varda
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To: Varda
Can. 812 Those who teach theological subjects in any institute of higher studies must have a mandate from the competent ecclesiastical authority.

Mansell needs to bring McBrien home and begin the process of having him dismissed.

rmcbrien@nd.edu

45 posted on 10/09/2008 10:56:56 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Campion
Thank you. I said to correct me. I was wiped last night after a LONG rehearsal after the Liturgy for Sunday was changed from ordinary time to the 100th Anniversary of the dedication of the church. We had to switch anthems - and we hadn't seen them yet.

McBrien needs to go. He's caused a lot of damage. Bottom line.

46 posted on 10/09/2008 5:30:49 PM PDT by Desdemona (Lipstick only until the election. The gloss has been sacrificed for the greater good.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

The USCCB Guidelines Concerning the Academic Mandatum say this.

1. Nature of the mandatum.

a. The mandatum is fundamentally an acknowledgment by Church authority that a Catholic professor of a theological discipline is a teacher within the full communion of the Catholic Church ( Application: Article 4,4,e,i).

2. Who is required to have the mandatum?

a. All Catholics who teach theological disciplines in a Catholic university are required to have a mandatum. (canon 812 and Application: Article 4, 4, e).

c. “Theological disciplines” in this context signifies Sacred Scripture, dogmatic theology, moral theology, pastoral theology, canon law, liturgy, and Church history (cf. canon 252)

“Theological disciplines” seems to have the same definition as “theological subjects” mentioned in Canon 812.


47 posted on 10/10/2008 4:59:31 AM PDT by Varda
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