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Bishop (Martino) takes stand on faith at forum (no longer supports Dem party!)
Standard Speaker ^ | October 22, 2008 | LAURA LEGERE

Posted on 10/22/2008 8:00:23 AM PDT by NYer

Local and national Catholics reacted Tuesday to statements by Diocese of Scranton Bishop Joseph F. Martino apparently discounting teachings of the national body of bishops during a political forum at a Honesdale Roman Catholic Church this weekend.

Martino arrived unannounced in the midst of a panel discussion on faith issues and the presidential campaign at St. John’s Catholic Church on Sunday. According to people who attended the event, the bishop chastised the group for holding the forum and particularly took issue with the discussion and distribution of excerpts from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ position on voting issues. The document defines abortion and euthanasia, as well as racism, torture and genocide, as among the most important issues for Catholic voters to consider.

“No USCCB document is relevant in this diocese,” he was quoted as saying in the Wayne County Independent, a Honesdale-based newspaper. “The USCCB doesn’t speak for me.”

Thomas Shepstone, a local businessman and Catholic who spoke about his opposition to abortion rights during the event, recalled Tuesday that Martino also told the audience that he voted against the U.S. Bishops’ statement and described it as a consensus document “written to mean all things to all people.”

According to participants, Martino expressed dismay that the panelists did not discuss the pastoral letter he directed all priests in the Diocese to read in place of their homilies on Oct. 4 and 5. In that letter, he called on Catholic voters to consider abortion above all other issues, except those he defined as having equal moral weight, like euthanasia and embryonic stem-cell research.

“The only relevant document ... is my letter,” he said at the forum, according to the Independent. “There is one teacher in this diocese, and these points are not debatable.”

According to the Independent, the bishop also said he no longer supports the Democratic Party.

A diocesan spokesman on Tuesday confirmed the bishop’s comments as reported in the Independent.

The spokesman, William Genello, also released a statement that noted the bishop attended the event because he “was concerned because of the confusion and public misrepresentations about Catholic teaching on the life issues.

“Certain groups and individuals have used their own erroneous interpretations of Church documents, particularly the U.S. Bishops’ statement on Faithful Citizenship, to justify their political positions and to contradict the Church’s actual teaching on the centrality of abortion, euthanasia and embryonic stem cell research,” the statement said.

“When Bishop Martino heard how some of these issues were being presented at the forum, he determined that he must address the forum to fulfill his obligation as the authentic teacher of the Catholic faith in his diocese.”

Professor Douglas Kmiec, a Catholic constitutional legal scholar who advises Democratic presidential contender Sen. Barack Obama, said Tuesday he respects Martino’s passionate speech about life and doubts the bishop intended to separate himself from the larger church.

“That said, we have to be faithful to the church as the church universal exists,” he said. “And the church universal exists in places other than Scranton. It’s everywhere. Its teaching is timeless.”

Participants at the event described a spirited exchange of ideas that was either interrupted or invigorated by the bishop’s arrival.

Gene Tagle, the moderator of the event, said the bishop “torpedoed” the forum, even though he had been told about the event as early as May 27 this year.

“If the bishop disapproved, it seems all he had to do was have his secretary pick up the phone, call our parish pastor and tell him not to go ahead with the forum,” he said. “Instead he came in at the midpoint of the meeting and totally surprised everyone.”

Tagle said the bishop criticized the resident pastor, Rev. Martin Boylan, for holding the forum and “seemed to justify his presence there by stating that he owned the building.”

He also described the bishop’s tone as “angry and admonishing” and said his words created a surprising level of emotion in the audience.

“When he left it was chaotic,” Tagle said. “He incited his supporters to wild applause and shouting. And some individuals were castigating others for supporting pro-choice candidates. It was pretty wild there for a while.”

The bishop left shortly after his remarks and many audience members — some put the number at two-thirds of the group, others say a quarter — left after him.

Shepstone, the panelist, was one who left.

“I left because it was singularly inappropriate to continue the meeting after the bishop had spoken,” he said Tuesday, explaining that the bishop had made it clear he wanted the meeting to stop.

“He spoke eloquently and he spoke forcefully and there was nothing else to be said.”

Wendell Kay, another panelist and a Wayne County commissioner, stayed for the scheduled question-and-answer session after the bishop left, despite being startled by the interruption.

“He’s my bishop and I accept what he says, but I was a little bit surprised at the turn of events,” he said, “and thought if there had been an objection from the diocese in advance we probably would not have held the forum.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: abortion; bishop; bishopmartino; catholic; catholicvote; cultureofdeath; democrat; democratparty; democrats; escr; martino; pa; partyofdeath; pennsylvania; prolife; scranton; stemcells

Bishop Joseph Martino
1 posted on 10/22/2008 8:00:23 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

2 posted on 10/22/2008 8:01:16 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer
Almighty God is separating the sheep from the goats, and He is using this election to do it. May the scales fall from all their eyes!

Praise the Lord.

3 posted on 10/22/2008 8:02:19 AM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch, pray, and work.)
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To: NYer
“He’s my bishop and I accept what he says, but I was a little bit surprised at the turn of events,” he said, “and thought if there had been an objection from the diocese in advance we probably would not have held the forum.”

That's why he crashed the party, you jerk. (not you NYer)

This is as similar and shocking as Jesus getting out a whip and throwing out the money changers from His Temple.

Pray for this courageous man of God.

4 posted on 10/22/2008 8:05:36 AM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch, pray, and work.)
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To: NYer

Just WOW!

May all the SERIOUS churches join the Catholics in denouncing the DemonRAT party as the PARTY OF DEATH, the party of Communist indoctrination and servitude.


5 posted on 10/22/2008 8:09:17 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: NYer

Wow!

There comes a time when words must end & one must act.

God bless him!


6 posted on 10/22/2008 8:41:53 AM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: NYer

ANY catholic who is Pro-Choice or Pro-Euthansia is NOT a Catholic in good standing...PERIOD.


7 posted on 10/22/2008 8:42:01 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: NYer
A brave and good man. May God bless him, and may his guardian angel protect him.
8 posted on 10/22/2008 8:46:50 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer

I love the part where he disses the USCCB, an organization that I think should be disbanded.


9 posted on 10/22/2008 8:54:55 AM PDT by wiley
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To: NYer

God Bless Him./Just Asking - seoul62......


10 posted on 10/22/2008 8:55:15 AM PDT by seoul62
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To: seoul62

FReeper friends, please get on the site and vote it up. It’s only a 3.5 / 10 right now.


11 posted on 10/22/2008 9:00:49 AM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch, pray, and work. This election will separate the sheep from the goats.)
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To: NYer

This bishop is simply verbalizing what many of us Catholics have been thinking for quite some time...to hell with the USCCB


12 posted on 10/22/2008 9:08:44 AM PDT by veritas2002
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To: NYer

Quote from the article:

Professor Douglas Kmiec...said Tuesday he respects Martino’s passionate speech about life and doubts the bishop intended to separate himself from the larger church.”

So knowing the USCCB can be ignored (since it’s not an official part of the Church hierarchy) means you might be accused of separating yourself from the Church?

Fools.


13 posted on 10/22/2008 9:28:38 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: Westbrook
May all the SERIOUS churches join the Catholics in denouncing the DemonRAT party as the PARTY OF DEATH, the party of Communist indoctrination and servitude.

So many Catholic bishops have spoken out - very vociferously - against the "party of death". But, where are the voices from Protestant and Jewish religious leaders?

14 posted on 10/22/2008 9:37:13 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

Wow! Our archbishop hasn’t really addressed the Life issue yet, although to be fair he is ill and I think is not really up to a fight.

I would have paid cash money to see this!!


15 posted on 10/22/2008 9:40:13 AM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: wiley
I love the part where he disses the USCCB, an organization that I think should be disbanded.

I'm no fan of the USCCB but when they do something right, we should let them know. And yesterday, they did just that!

Breaking: US Bishops set the record straight in today's statement(Legal Protection for Unborn!)

16 posted on 10/22/2008 9:40:36 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998

Yes, bishops can totally ignore Church teaching and the Pope, but not the USCCB.


17 posted on 10/22/2008 9:43:54 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: NYer

This Bishop Martino is the perfect example of what a Bishop schould be.

In Atlanta, Archbishop Wilton Gregory is an Obama supporter. Wilton Gregory never talks about abortion as it applies to the Presidential Election.

Our pastor, Msgr Patrick Bishop of Transfiguration Church in Marietta Georgia on October 18, 2008 spoke from the altar during Mass and stated that Obama was Pro Abortion and that Palin was for Capital Punishment. Therefore, there was no difference between these 2 people and that he gave his tacit approval to vote for Obama, the Abortionist.

Msgr Patrick Bishop didn’t mention John McCain but instead Msgr Patrick Bishop brought up Sarah Palin.

This is an example of how Msgr Patrick Bishop is trying to destroy the reputation of Sarah Palin who has strong Pro Life Credential. Msgr Patrick Bishop is a strong supporter of Obama and practices politics during the Mass in clerical garb.

On March 31, 2008, during the homily following Msgr Patrick Bishop announced that he left the Republican Party because of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

Archbishop Wilton Gregory lets Msgr Patrick Bishop practice politics during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The people of the Diocese of Atlanta would be happy to have Bishop Martino instead of Archbishop Wilton Gregory and Msgr Patrick Bishop...


18 posted on 10/22/2008 9:44:49 AM PDT by ethics
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To: NYer

Send a copy of this article at Raymond Arroyo of the WORLD OVER on Friday Nights on EWTN!!!

Encourage him to have Bishop Martino on his show!!

His email address is worldover@ewtn.com


19 posted on 10/22/2008 9:49:43 AM PDT by ethics
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To: NYer
as well as racism, torture and genocide

Gee, who's the one running on a pro-racism, pro-torture and pro-genocide platform? I know I don't always keep up, but surely I wouldn't have missed that! ;-)

20 posted on 10/22/2008 9:56:30 AM PDT by maryz
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To: NYer

> But, where are the voices from Protestant and Jewish
> religious leaders?

The mainline Protestant denominations are in the tank with the Leftists. They are sold out to “Liberation Theology”.

However, if you attend a fundamentalist church, Apostolic Lutherans, Independent Baptist, Russian Baptist, even most Southern Baptist congregations, you will hear the message against the pro-Abort DemonRATs.

Some of these churches have lost their tax-exempt status as a result and have had to close their doors.


21 posted on 10/22/2008 10:04:07 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: NYer
Professor Douglas Kmiec, a Catholic constitutional legal scholar who advises Democratic presidential contender Sen. Barack Obama, said Tuesday he respects Martino’s passionate speech about life and doubts the bishop intended to separate himself from the larger church.

Dougie, you ignorant slut! Bp. Martino has NOT "separat[ed] himself from the larger church (sic)".

You, OTOH ...

22 posted on 10/22/2008 10:09:10 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: NYer
But, where are the voices from Protestant and Jewish religious leaders?

Rod Parsley and John Hagee are speaking out. John Hagee has a whole series on "Vote the Bible."

23 posted on 10/22/2008 10:26:45 AM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch, pray, and work. This election will separate the sheep from the goats.)
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To: All
...Diocese of Scranton Bishop Joseph F. Martino apparently discounting teachings of the national body of bishops during a political forum at a Honesdale Roman Catholic Church this weekend...“No USCCB document is relevant in this diocese,” he was quoted as saying in the Wayne County Independent, a Honesdale-based newspaper. “The USCCB doesn’t speak for me.”

Ping to read later

24 posted on 10/22/2008 10:27:39 AM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: pray4liberty
Rod Parsley and John Hagee are speaking out.

That's it? 30,000+ Protestant denominations and only 2 men step forward to speak. I see that John Hagee is doing this to make a profit ... that's just shameful.


$60

25 posted on 10/22/2008 10:42:15 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

Yep, only two, and I get both programs on Sky Angel IPTV.


26 posted on 10/22/2008 10:44:47 AM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch, pray, and work. This election will separate the sheep from the goats.)
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To: NYer

Bishop has full responsibility to step in when error is being taught as the voice of the church.


27 posted on 10/22/2008 10:59:52 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: NYer

No longer supports the Democrat Party.....Where has he been for 30 years.


28 posted on 10/22/2008 11:01:11 AM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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To: NYer

Did you see this?

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/22/soros-funding-pro-obama-catholic-groups/


29 posted on 10/22/2008 11:13:51 AM PDT by AliVeritas (Obama, freedom is slavery, commence two minutes hate Double plus good.)
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To: NYer

The Catholic Church is not a democracy. Never has been. Teachings flow from the Pope and his designates in the Vatican, on down. Any bishop who advances teachings in conflict with what the Pope has said, is in schism


30 posted on 10/22/2008 11:35:31 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell)
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To: wiley
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31 posted on 10/22/2008 11:35:54 AM PDT by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer

I think they invited the rebuke by not having his letter read. That really is a shocking insult.


32 posted on 10/22/2008 11:39:29 AM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: Alex Murphy

Alex, just a little background information on the USCCB. There was never as national semi-official organization like this prior to Vatican II and while there were some bishops’ organizations (such as the “Catholic Rural Life Conference,” etc.) prior to Vatican II, they didn’t have canonical status as such and were never regarded as being the ultimate teaching authority for the country.

With Vatican II, there came a push for permanent national “representative bodies” of the bishops, and in some cases existing organizations were the seed for this and in other cases, entirely new bodies were formed.

They have always been a disaster and have been one of the reasons that the US bishops have been so weak in dealing with problems. The USCCB powerhouses were for years the liberal bishops, and they used the USCCB to prevent other bishops from disagreeing with them. Even the sex abuse problems can be traced to the USCCB, because they put forth policy guidelines that were naively adopted by individual bishops (things such as psychological treatment instead of immediate reclusion in a very penitential monastery or removal from the priesthood). In addition, when people can hide behind an organization, they do, and a lot of weak bishops simply abdicated in favor of the USCCB.

Maybe the only good thing to come out of this presidential election will be that some bishops have obviously had it up to the eyebrows with the USCCB and finally an issue has arisen that is enough to make them stand up and find their own voices again. The Pope is known not to be favorable to these national bishops’ councils, btw, because he regards them as weakening both the authority of the local bishop and the authority of Rome.

This is a very positive development!


33 posted on 10/22/2008 12:36:22 PM PDT by livius
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To: ethics
I hope you've complained on up the line.

Fortunately we are in a VERY orthodox parish (Holy Spirit Atlanta) and got a dynamite sermon on Respect Life Sunday from our take-no-prisoners parochial vicar.

Of course, as he pointed out himself, "I didn't mention any names, and I didn't tell anybody who to vote for." But he didn't have to . . . .

Now we just have to do something about Abp. Gregory voting skin color instead of Catholic doctrine . . . .

34 posted on 10/22/2008 4:45:38 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse - TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: vladimir998

Kmiec was responding to a question from a “reporter.” That’s why the strange ‘separation’ comment...


35 posted on 10/22/2008 5:36:14 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: livius; Alex Murphy

Livius, you could have simply written “Jos. Bernardin.”

That pretty much sums up USCC.


36 posted on 10/22/2008 5:47:42 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: ninenot

What’s worse is that Bernardin seems to have an incredible half-life. I guess that’s because some of his chosen boy bishops are still there to carry on his destructive and misleading work. But even they are aging out...


37 posted on 10/22/2008 6:07:20 PM PDT by livius
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To: Miss Marple

Bishop Martino used to be in the Philly Archdiocese. Great to see him flex some muscle and I hope Pope Benedict catches a glimpse!


38 posted on 10/22/2008 6:23:07 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG....)
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To: NYer; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...

Wow. Just wow. Praise God, He has a faithful and true servant. One at least. Wow.


39 posted on 10/22/2008 6:26:37 PM PDT by narses (http://www.youtube.com/TheMouthPeace)
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To: NYer

God bless him.

People were pleased with the Conference of Bishops’ statement last summer, but I thought it was a faulty compromise between the liberal and faithful factions.

In particular, although it said that abortion is an intrinsic evil, it also kept equating abortion with racism, which is total nonsense. Racism and abortion would only be equivalent if you mean the mass murder of people on racist grounds, not just prejudiced talk or even actions.

The moral equivalent of murdering 40 million babies would be murdering 40 million blacks, or something equally horrible.

And that’s exactly what this bishop says. No moral equivalence between killing of the innocent and lesser offenses, even if they are serious sins.


40 posted on 10/22/2008 6:52:37 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: AnAmericanMother

What do you suggest?


41 posted on 10/22/2008 7:26:36 PM PDT by ethics
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To: NYer

Thank You.

Great Catch. I loved reading this.

Almost a parody of the old monty python’s nobody expects the Spanish inquisition skit but in a good way.

We need this in Boston.


42 posted on 10/22/2008 9:24:47 PM PDT by fishhound
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To: NYer

Thank You.

Great Catch. I loved reading this.

Almost a parody of the old monty python’s nobody expects the Spanish inquisition skit but in a good way.

We need this in Boston.


43 posted on 10/22/2008 9:24:51 PM PDT by fishhound
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To: NYer

great news! you should have posted this in news activism..


44 posted on 10/22/2008 10:07:18 PM PDT by Coleus (Abortion and Physician-assisted Murder (aka-Euthanasia), Don't Democrats just kill ya?)
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To: Coleus

You are right.


45 posted on 10/22/2008 10:35:45 PM PDT by fishhound
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To: NYer

God bless you, Bishop Martino!!! Deo Gratias!!!!

The spokesman, William Genello, also released a statement that noted the bishop attended the event because he “was concerned because of the confusion and public misrepresentations about Catholic teaching on the life issues.

“Certain groups and individuals have used their own erroneous interpretations of Church documents, particularly the U.S. Bishops’ statement on Faithful Citizenship, to justify their political positions and to contradict the Church’s actual teaching on the centrality of abortion, euthanasia and embryonic stem cell research,” the statement said.

“When Bishop Martino heard how some of these issues were being presented at the forum, he determined that he must address the forum to fulfill his obligation as the authentic teacher of the Catholic faith in his diocese.”


46 posted on 10/23/2008 12:14:59 AM PDT by victim soul
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To: ethics
If you have first hand knowledge of misconduct on the part of the abp., you can complain to Rome.

Re the priest, you'll have to complain to the abp. first, but upon receiving no satisfaction you carry it on up to Rome.

Fr. Zuhlsdorf's blog has complete instructions on how to frame a complaint.

47 posted on 10/23/2008 4:46:10 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse - TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: NYer

As a sidewalk Prayer Warrior fighting to end abortion I say,

Keep it up!!! Keep those prayers coming!!! God is hearing us and he is responding to the righteous prayers of the faithful crying out for His help. He is moving his bishops to stand on the side of life. All glory and honor to God, for he is good.


48 posted on 10/23/2008 9:04:30 AM PDT by Jvette
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To: NYer
Bishop Martino is quoted as saying:

According to the Independent, the bishop also said he no longer supports the Democratic Party.

In the letter Little Murders, Archbishop Chaput of Denver stated that he wrote his new book, released August 12, 2008, because of the problems of a pro-life Democrat that he knew that ran for office.

Not all Democrats are pro-abort... Most are... Though...

49 posted on 10/23/2008 7:11:37 PM PDT by topher (Let us return to old-fashioned morality - morality that has stood the test of time...)
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