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Vatican fumes at Israeli minister's remarks on Nazi-era pope
www.haaretz.com ^ | 24/10/2008 | Adi Schwartz

Posted on 10/24/2008 7:21:46 AM PDT by Publius804

Vatican fumes at Israeli minister's remarks on Nazi-era pope

By Adi Schwartz, Haaretz Correspondent and Staff

Vatican officials are furious over Minister Isaac Herzog's statement in Thursday's Haaretz that the planned beatification of Pope Pius XII, who headed the Catholic Church during the Holocaust, is "unacceptable."

Cardinal Andrea Lanza di Montezemolo told the Italian paper Corriere della Serra yesterday that "Israel's interference in the matter of Pius XII must stop. We've had it with this interference. Outside opinions are liable to disrupt [the process], and they look like an attempt to force Pope Benedict XVI to make a decision. The decision to declare someone a saint is an internal decision of the church."

Father Paolo Molinari, a priest involved in the the beatification process, told the paper Il Messaggero that "Minister Herzog's statements constitute intervention in the process of declaring Pius XII 'blessed,' which is an internal affair of the Catholic Church." Beatification, or being declared blessed, is the final stage before achieving sainthood.

Moreover, Molinari claimed, "such statements contradict what others in the Jewish world have said, including [former Israeli prime ministers] Moshe Sharett and Golda Meir, who left no room for doubt about the positive part played by Pius XII during the Nazi era."

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Judaism; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: 860000; beatification; hitlerspope; holocaust; popepiusxii; wwii
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1 posted on 10/24/2008 7:21:47 AM PDT by Publius804
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To: Publius804
Indeed, there is "no room for doubt about the positive part played by Pius XII during the Nazi era."

860,000

2 posted on 10/24/2008 7:23:37 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Publius804
Vatican officials are furious over Minister Isaac Herzog's statement in Thursday's Haaretz that the planned beatification of Pope Pius XII, who headed the Catholic Church during the Holocaust, is "unacceptable."

They don't have to accept it. It is not under their jurisdiction.
3 posted on 10/24/2008 7:27:28 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("[Gov. Sarah Palin] is Phyllis Schlafly, only younger." -- Gloria Steinem)
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To: Publius804

another viewpoint for reference

The Myth of Hitler’s Pope:
Pope Pius XII and His Secret War Against Nazi Germany
by David G. Dalin
http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Hitlers-Pope-Against-Germany/dp/0895260344/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1224858361&sr=1-2

Rabbi David G. Dalin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_David_G._Dalin

The Myth of Hitler’s Pope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Hitler’s_Pope

(VOA’s comment: It might be noted that Rabbi Dalin is on faculty of
Ave Maria University, a Roman Catholic university in Florida.
I simply mention that in full disclosure in considering whether or
not Rabbi Dalin may more sympathetic to Pope Pius XII due to his
working environment. That’s not an accusation of bias...
just mentioning the fuller situation of the author.)


4 posted on 10/24/2008 7:40:56 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Petronski

I agree. I am embarrassed every time this is ‘recalled’. The Church would do well to face the facts and realize their beatification of this man is ill advised.


5 posted on 10/24/2008 7:41:08 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: VOA

I want PROOF of his efforts. I read years ago about his ‘silence’. Where is the proof?


6 posted on 10/24/2008 7:45:22 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight
The Church would do well to face the facts and realize their beatification of this man is ill advised.

You don't agree with me at all.

7 posted on 10/24/2008 7:48:11 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: VOA
I simply mention that in full disclosure in considering whether or not Rabbi Dalin may more sympathetic to Pope Pius XII due to his working environment.

I think you'll find the opposite is true: the Rabbi was hired at Ave Maria because he is fair.

8 posted on 10/24/2008 7:50:08 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Petronski
I think you'll find the opposite is true:
the Rabbi was hired at Ave Maria because he is fair.


Thanks for the further info.
I was just trying to be above-board...I could see some folks trying
to stretch his employment situation into saying
"well, he MUST be biased".
9 posted on 10/24/2008 7:58:13 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Petronski

Sorry....you are right. I read reviews of the Rabbi’s book, but would have to read it and evaluate it’s documentation to give it a fair assessment.

I just remember being disgusted and embarrassed years ago when whomever evaluated and exposed the Pope’s apparent behaviors during WWII. No ‘stand’ was taken by the Church during that time. The silence was cowardly in my opinion. is the 860,00 the number of Jews you claim he was instrumental in ‘saving’?


10 posted on 10/24/2008 8:08:48 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight
No ‘stand’ was taken by the Church during that time. The silence was cowardly in my opinion.

False on both counts, and frankly, outright defamation. Of course, you're not alone in that position...it's rather fashionable, actually.

Let me know when your actions save eight hundred sixty thousand lives.

11 posted on 10/24/2008 8:15:56 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Petronski
Actually, I agree with you. The Pope did about the best he could under the circumstances he found himself in. There wasn't much good he could have done for anyone standing in front of a firing squad or just “disappearing”.
12 posted on 10/24/2008 8:27:52 AM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: BnBlFlag
Becoming a martyr for your beliefs out of fashion?
13 posted on 10/24/2008 8:32:06 AM PDT by allmendream (White Dog Democrat: A Democrat who will not vote for 0bama because he's black.)
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To: BnBlFlag
The Pope did about the best he could under the circumstances he found himself in. There wasn't much good he could have done for anyone standing in front of a firing squad or just “disappearing”.

Precisely.

14 posted on 10/24/2008 8:33:05 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Petronski

There is no way Pius was directly or individually responsible for saving that many lives. The credit, if the number is valid, goes to the heroic efforts of various European parish priests and individual Catholics along with others not affiliated w/ Catholic Church) who risked their lives to do whatever they could to save the threatened Jews. Unless the Vatican sent out a secret directive to all the parishes in Europe to take such action, Pius does not figure into the effort. If the Vatican had done so, it would have been make public long ago.

Just because they are ‘Pope’ does not make them Saint material. Think of Alexander VI, The Babylonian Captivity, Clement VII...and and more through out the history of the Church.

However, I am willing to alter my opinion of Pius if after research I find that there is documentation if his efforts to subvert the Nazi annihilation of the Jews. If so, I will do my mea culpa’s.


15 posted on 10/24/2008 8:52:34 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight
There is no way Pius was directly or individually responsible for saving that many lives.

Says you.

STRAWMAN ALERT

Just because they are ‘Pope’ does not make them Saint material.

END STRAWMAN ALERT

However, I am willing to alter my opinion of Pius . . .

I'll telex Pope Benedict right away with the good news. He'll be so relieved!

16 posted on 10/24/2008 8:56:06 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Petronski

Don’t know what Strawman alert means. I suppose it is a comment on my idiocy. However, I would rather you refer me to or provide me with documentation to appropriately refute my skepticism. Lead me to the ‘Light’. Insults do not win disputes. They reflect an absence of fact and a level of emotionalism which does not promote reason or truth.

I would rather think highly of Pius as what he was reflects on too many good people of the faith.

Where’s the beef, kiddo?


17 posted on 10/24/2008 9:07:10 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Dudoight

No one claimed “...just because they are ‘Pope’ does not make them Saint material” so why take the time to argue against it?


18 posted on 10/24/2008 9:11:54 AM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Petronski
You beat me to it, you bastard. ;')

Still, it bears repeating:

860,000

19 posted on 10/24/2008 9:12:03 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Petronski

“No one claimed “...just because they are ‘Pope’ does not make them Saint material” so why take the time to argue against it?”

Valid point. Then why Pius?

860,00?

Show me the money!


20 posted on 10/24/2008 9:16:06 AM PDT by Dudoight
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