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Who Really Owns the “Holy Land”?
Counsel of Chalcedon ^ | June 2006 | Robert L. Reymond

Posted on 10/28/2008 5:39:59 PM PDT by topcat54

Quite plainly, Abraham understood that the land promised to him actually had both its origin and its antitypical fulfillment in the heavenly, eternal reality that lay still in the future. Possession of a particular tract of land in ancient times might have significance from a number of perspectives with respect to God’s redemptive working in the world, but clearly the land promise under the Abrahamic covenant served simply as a type, anticipating the future reality of the coming of the Messianic kingdom with the Messiah himself assuming the throne of David in Heaven, and ruling the universe after his resurrection and ascension, and reigning until all his enemies have been put under his feet. How was it possible for Abraham to have the view of the land promise that the New Testament ascribed to him? What led him to “spiritualize” the promise to make it entail future heavenly, kingdom realities? The answer lies in the fact that he took seriously God’s promise to him that “in [him] all the families of the Earth would be blessed” (Genesis 12:3). Therefore, he perceived that the promise to him and his offspring, who is Christ (Galatians 3:16), entailed that in Christ “he would be heir [not of Palestine but] of the [glorified] world [kosmou]” (Romans 4:13). Plainly, Abraham under-stood that God’s land promise meant that God would restore the entire cosmos to its former paradisical glory and in that he placed his hope and patiently waited for it. His faith and understanding would have been satisfied with nothing less! Moses too, and his contemporaries, wandered in the wilderness of Sinai for forty years, and died in faith, not having received the promise (Hebrews 11:39).

(Excerpt) Read more at counselofchalcedon.org ...


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: eschatology; israel; jews; replacementtheology
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1 posted on 10/28/2008 5:39:59 PM PDT by topcat54
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To: ItsOurTimeNow; HarleyD; suzyjaruki; nobdysfool; jkl1122; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
Reformed Eschatology Ping List (REPL)
Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based

"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)

2 posted on 10/28/2008 5:41:36 PM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: topcat54
Who really owns the "Holy Land"?

The Jews. Next question?

3 posted on 10/28/2008 5:43:48 PM PDT by Poison Pill
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To: All
The entire article is available at the Trinity Review.

From the Conclusion:

1.The modern Jewish state is not a part of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Even though this particular political state came into being on May 14, 1948, it would be a denial of Jesus’ affirmation that his kingdom is “not of this world order” (John 18:36) to assert that modern Israel is a part of his Messianic kingdom. To put it bluntly, modern Israel is not true Israel at all, but is rather “the spiritual son of Hagar” (Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 4:24-25) and thus is “Ishmaelitish” to the core, due to its lack of Abrahamic belief in Jesus Christ.21 It has accordingly forsaken any legitimate Biblical claim to Palestine.

2. The land promise of the Old Testament served as a type of the consummate realization of the purposes of God for his redeemed people that encompasses “all the nations” (Genesis 12:3) and the entire cosmos (Romans 4:13). Christians as members of the Messianic kingdom of God are the real heirs, along with Abraham, of the land promise in its antitypical, consummated character.

3. Because of the inherently limited scope of the land promised in the Old Testament, it cannot be regarded as having continuing significance in the realm of redemption other than in its function as a model to teach that obedience and divine blessing go hand in hand while disobedience and divine retribution also go hand in hand.

4. The Old Testament predictions about the “return” of “Israel” to the “land” in terms of a geo-political reestablishment of the state of Israel are more properly interpreted as having fulfillment at the “restoration of all things” that will accompany the resurrection of believers at the return of Christ (Acts 3:21; Romans 8:22-23). To interpret these predictions literally would be a retrograde elevation of type over antitype.

5. The future Messianic kingdom will embrace the whole of the recreated cosmos and will not experience a special manifestation that could be regarded in any sense as “Jewish” in the so-called “holy land” or anywhere else.

4 posted on 10/28/2008 5:48:55 PM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: topcat54

‘Who really owns the “Holy Land”?’
God! We are but entrusted with earthly possessions while we are here. God entusted the Jews (as was mentioned prior) with the area known as the Holy Land.


5 posted on 10/28/2008 5:51:45 PM PDT by Mustng959
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To: Poison Pill
The Jews own it today because they took it and have successfully defended it. In the entire 280,000 years of human habitation of the region we now call the Holy Land the Jews have only “owned” it for a few hundred years. The permanent settlement of Jericho predates Abraham's arrival by well over 5,000 years. Once the Jews became the dominant peoples in the region they abandoned the region for Egypt. Upon their return they only held the Holy land for a few generations before successive invasions of Assyrians, Hittites, Babylonians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Malmuk Egyptians, Crusaders, Khurds, Ottomans, French, and British ended with the creation of the nation of Israel.Those who also call themselves the Children of Abraham, Christians and Muslims, could claim the same right of ownership were it left to that.
6 posted on 10/28/2008 5:54:17 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: topcat54
The fulfillment of the promise to bless all the families of the earth through THE Seed, Christ, in no way negates the physical, literal earthly territorial promises.

The Old Testament is chock full of promises to regather Abraham's physical seed to the land given to them under Joshua, and the promises in Ezekiel are physical, and have not YET been fulfilled. These promises, by the way extend clean across present day Iraq, from the edge of the Mediterranean Sea.

THE Seed, Christ (Galatians 3, 4, etc.) will, HIMSELF, rule on this earth over a physical earthly kingdom (Revelation chs. 19, 20). No, not fulfilled by anything that could have been seen in 70 AD or thereafter.

7 posted on 10/28/2008 5:57:00 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: John Leland 1789
Well said. God's eternal covenants are just that, eternal. Articles like this one are somewhat comical. Take this dribble:

5. The future Messianic kingdom will embrace the whole of the recreated cosmos and will not experience a special manifestation that could be regarded in any sense as “Jewish” in the so-called “holy land” or anywhere else.

Ahhh yup... The physical land of Israel no longer has any significance. That's why Christ will come back and stand on the Mount of Olives. That's also why the final battle of Armageddon will be fought there. That's why Christ will reign for 1000 years there, in Jerusalem. But other than these very minor points, no significance.

8 posted on 10/28/2008 6:05:35 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited
But other than these very minor points, no significance.

Logic is not allowed on preterist threads.

9 posted on 10/28/2008 6:13:11 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: topcat54

That is a good summary of Theological Anti-Zionism known as Replacement.


10 posted on 10/28/2008 6:17:39 PM PDT by rmlew (NYARLATHOTEP / BIDEN'08 . If you don't believe me check out the first's wikipedia page.)
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To: topcat54
Who Really Owns the “Holy Land”?
You must like poking wasp nests with a stick too.

Might be worth sometime going over the validity or lack thereof of the concept of a "holy land" in the new covenant era. "Neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

Back to the shadows again....

11 posted on 10/28/2008 6:32:38 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("I've studied bible prophecy 30 years" usually means "I've never heard of Geerhardus Vos.")
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To: topcat54

I wish Satan would take out time from his busy schedule to read this. Then maybe he would understand that Israel has no significance any more and he would stop having his minions attack and torment them and their citizens.


12 posted on 10/28/2008 6:46:20 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: Poison Pill
The Jews. Next question?

Funny, the Jews didn't think so. They believed that God owns it.

National Israel posseses the land today. That is a fact, and it isn't going to change any time soon. Whether that has anything to do with God's plan for His people is quite another matter.

13 posted on 10/28/2008 7:41:45 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: AmericaUnited
I wish Satan would take out time from his busy schedule to read this. Then maybe he would understand that Israel has no significance any more and he would stop having his minions attack and torment them and their citizens.

Yes, heard it before. All the way up to the Holicaust, which really happened (At least the Nazis seemed to think so, they kept pretty good records of it).

What i wonder though is if 7 million Slavs, mentally and physically infirmed, and homosexuals along with 20 million Russians (most all at least nominally gentile 'Christian') would agree with you.

14 posted on 10/28/2008 7:47:25 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord

That is a very lame response, because it nothing to do with why Israel and the Jews continue to be tormented today, over 60 years later.


15 posted on 10/28/2008 7:53:55 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: topcat54
The Jews, if they'll defend it

????????????

16 posted on 10/29/2008 12:34:31 AM PDT by onedoug ( Barracuda!)
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To: AmericaUnited
That is a very lame response, because it nothing to do with why Israel and the Jews continue to be tormented today, over 60 years later.

No, what is really lame is presuming that the present Nation of Israel and Non-Israeli Jews are unique in their troubles.

17 posted on 10/29/2008 5:47:25 AM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord ((I have come here to kick @$$ and chew bubblegum...and I'm all outta bubblegum! ~Roddy Piper))
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
You really are extremely blinded here. Yes, other nations/peoples have had trouble, but NO OTHER PEOPLE/NATION has been as persistently persecuted as the Jews. Bar none. If you claim otherwise you are grossly ignorant in this matter and should not be discussing it. When the scripture says that Israel will be a "heavy stone" for all the nations, it is dead on the money. What planet DO YOU LIVE ON?@!
18 posted on 10/29/2008 6:06:05 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: rmlew
That is a good summary of Theological Anti-Zionism known as Replacement.

In the new covenant the only true Zion is the heavenly one.

"22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel." (Heb. 12)

Old Zion was only a type of the heavenly reality. Except for its typological teachings, old Zion no longer holds any theological significance for Christians.

19 posted on 10/29/2008 6:12:55 AM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: Lee N. Field
You must like poking wasp nests with a stick too.

Same sort of programmed reaction.

Might be worth sometime going over the validity or lack thereof of the concept of a "holy land" in the new covenant era. "Neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

Exactly. I suspect that is why the Chalcedon reprint put the term "Holy Land" in quotes.

Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman, as well as didactic Scriptures such as Gal. 4 and Heb. 11 & 12, makes it pretty clear that there is no earthly holy land in the new covenant until the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven (Rev. 21).

20 posted on 10/29/2008 6:18:23 AM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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