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Does Purgatory Deny the Sufficiency of Christ's Sacrifice?
Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry ^ | Matt Slick

Posted on 10/30/2008 1:09:05 PM PDT by Gamecock

According to the Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47, "If you die in the love of God but possess any stains of sin, such stains are cleansed away in a purifying process called purgatory. These stains of sin are primarily the temporal punishment due to venial or mortal sins already forgiven but for which sufficient penance was not done during your lifetime."

The Catholic Catechism, paragraph 1030, says that purgatory is for "All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation, but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven."

Among the many doctrines that Catholicism claims to be derived through Sacred Tradition, purgatory is one of the most interesting and puzzling, particularly to a Protestant. In light of the Pauline doctrine of justification by grace through faith, how is it possible that an afterlife cleansing through punishment is necessary for a Christian who has trusted in Jesus to cleanse him from all His sins? Wasn't Jesus' punishment for our transgressions sufficient? Didn't He take our place in that He suffered our death? It would seem that the words of Christ, "It is finished," (John 19:30) do not mean that the cleansing of our souls was completed on the cross.

Of course, Roman Catholic doctrine states that eternal life is bestowed upon the one who receives baptism (Catechism, par. 1265 - 1266, 1992). It is the stains of the sins committed after baptism and not removed through penance, good works, prayers, the Mass, etc., that are removed in the fires of purgatory (Handbook for Today's Catholic, page 47).

In light of the doctrine of justification by faith (Rom. 5:1; Rom. 4:5; Rom. 9:30; Acts 13:39; Gal. 2:16), where Jesus bore all of our sins, purgatory would seem to have no theologically justifiable right to exist. But the Bible alone is not appealed to by Catholic theologians in support of Purgatory. By far, the main support for Purgatory is found in the Catholic doctrine of Sacred Tradition. Nevertheless, what does the Bible say about justification, punishment, and our sins?

What is justification by faith?

To justify means acquit, declare righteous, the opposite of condemn. It means to not be guilty of breaking the Law and to be deemed as righteous by the standard of the Law.

God gave the Law, i.e, the 10 commandments. The Law is a reflection of Gods character and it is a perfect standard of righteousness which no one can keep. Since no one is able to keep Gods Law, no one can be justified by the Law (Rom. 3:20). There is, therefore, none righteous (Rom. 3:10-12). This is the problem of all people. We have all broken Gods Law and are in need of justification, of being declared righteous in Gods sight. This can only be done through the Messiah, our sin bearer.

Jesus is the one who took our place on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21), and turned away the wrath of God from us (Rom. 5:9) by being a propitiation (1 John 2:2) that turned away the wrath of God. He was punished in our place. Therefore, Jesus was our substitution. The righteous work of Christ is imputed to the believer by grace (Titus 3:7) and through faith (Rom. 5:1). This justification is a legal action on the part of God reckoning the believer as having satisfied the Law all of the Law.

It necessarily follows that to be justified in Gods eyes, is to be fully justified. It is not part of the Law that must be satisfied, but all of it. Perfection is the standard. Likewise, it is not part of our sins that were born by Christ, but all of them. This justification includes all of the sins of the believer (past, present, and future) or else we could not be justified.

What does the Catholic Catechism Say?

The Catholic Catechism (paragraphs 1990-1992) says, "Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon Gods merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals"...."Justification is at the same time the acceptance of Gods righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ..." and "...justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy."

Of particular interest is the reference that "justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith." There are many verses in the Bible that deal with baptism and putting on Christ (Gal. 3:27; Rom. 6:1-11). This paper is not intended to discuss the nature of baptism. Nevertheless, I strongly affirm that baptism is a covenant sign for the believer who is already justified by faith and for the children of believers who are under the covenant headship of the family. Baptism is not what justifies a person. Rather,

Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30)

Jesus bore our sins in His body, paid the penalty for them, and died. He said, "It is finished." In Greek, the phrase, "It is finished" is one word, tetelestai. In ancient Greek papyri texts that were receipts for taxes, when a debt was paid in full, the word tetelestai, was written on the document. This meant that the debt had been paid in full. In other words, Jesus had finished the work of atonement. But not only atonement (to make amends, to make right), but also of propitiation (turning away Gods wrath). He had fully paid the debt invoked by the sinner. There was nothing more to be done... It was finished.

Yet, the doctrine of Purgatory, in effect, is saying that we must suffer in purgatory for sins not covered by baptism and not covered by the cross. It is to say that the work of Christ is not finished and that there are things we must do to complete the sacrificial, cleansing work of Christ. This amounts to earning heaven by our good works, albeit, a work of suffering. Additionally, the doctrine of Purgatory implies that a person must atone for his own sins. It implies that the person must do more than what the Law of God requires of him. This is called supererogation.

When Jesus said, "It is finished," all that was necessary in the atonement was concluded and all in Christ were justified. We cannot complete or add to Christ's work through our suffering. Purgatory is not only unnecessary, but it contradicts Gods word.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: justification; purgatory
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1 posted on 10/30/2008 1:09:11 PM PDT by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock

Did you hear there is an election in 5 days?


2 posted on 10/30/2008 1:10:14 PM PDT by prolifefirst
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To: Quix; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; Terriergal; Forest Keeper

Ping


3 posted on 10/30/2008 1:10:50 PM PDT by Gamecock ("...Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles" and both to Americans.)
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To: prolifefirst

I did indeed.

That is why we have a News Forum, isn’t it?


4 posted on 10/30/2008 1:12:17 PM PDT by Gamecock ("...Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles" and both to Americans.)
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To: Gamecock
Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30)

Darn those lousy subcontractors! Looks like Jesus will have to work through another weekend!

5 posted on 10/30/2008 1:14:14 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (What can I say? It's a gift. And I didn't get a receipt, so I can't exchange it.)
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To: Gamecock
Although there is considerable historical and even biblical reference to purgatory, the working Catholic belief since Vatican II is that this is a temporal condition between death and judgment. All except saints (those who ascend directly to heaven) will spend time in purgatory.
6 posted on 10/30/2008 1:15:11 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Gamecock

No.

But it sure turns seems to make the anti-Catholic fetishists go all Yosemite Sam.


7 posted on 10/30/2008 1:17:05 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Gamecock

“It was finished.”

Yet here we are.
Placed on earth to do good works, as God intends.


8 posted on 10/30/2008 1:19:55 PM PDT by Natchez Hawk (What's so funny about the 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments?)
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To: Gamecock
The concept of Purgatory has always been a difficult one for me. Having grown up in the Catholic faith, we were taught that basically Purgatory was no different from hell, in terms of the actual amount of suffering, and that we may need to spend several hundred thousand years there before we get to go to Heaven. That makes no sense to me!

Is there a place in the bible that actually describes the type of suffering in Purgatory, or is that a “bogeyman” approach to make Catholic kids behave? Is it possible that Purgatory is simply a cleansing period and that the actual suffering is the inability to be with God for whatever amount of time that takes?

I don't know...it's always been a point of confusion for me.

Militant

9 posted on 10/30/2008 1:20:46 PM PDT by militant2 ( "God Bless these Divided States of America!")
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To: Natchez Hawk

Yup.


10 posted on 10/30/2008 1:22:48 PM PDT by Gamecock ("...Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles" and both to Americans.)
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To: Gamecock
Short answer: No. Because without the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, Purgatory, both as a place and with regard to its purpose, would have no effect.

Christ's Sacrifice is the engine which makes Purgatory go. But I think it likely that the rather disingenuous author of this article already knows that.

11 posted on 10/30/2008 1:27:31 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: militant2
I actually believe in a pre-pergatory.

It's kind of like a foyer, or anteroom.
Sort of like how condominiums are sort of pre-burial vaults.
In a way, like how liqueur is a pre-embalming fluid.

But different.

12 posted on 10/30/2008 1:28:49 PM PDT by woollyone ("When the tide is low, even a shrimp has its own puddle." - Vance Havner)
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To: militant2
My understanding is that those who truly have faith in God and his mercy will go to Heaven. Those who practice their faith( charity, love toward fellow man etc) will have a higher position in Heaven, but will not know the difference. Those that have accepted the responsibility of preaching the word of God have a greater depth of responsibility in order to achieve that higher position. All of which leads me to believe that the atrocities committed by the pedophiles in the Church may have a lot more to atone for( but again that is up to Almighty God)
13 posted on 10/30/2008 1:28:53 PM PDT by shadeaud (Let's git er done)
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To: Gamecock

Purgatory is the burning fire of God’s love dissolving the ash and the imperfection in your soul. If you don’t understand that, of course the juridical aspects of it aren’t going to make any sense.

Make it all about law and satisfaction and you forge a religion of pure iron.


14 posted on 10/30/2008 1:31:23 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Gamecock

Without a hint of justification in Scripture . . .

it has functioned as designed . . .

a very clever way to increase the donations into the coffers of the hierarchies around the world.


15 posted on 10/30/2008 1:31:29 PM PDT by Quix (GLOBALIST PLANS FM 1900 ON #76 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2031425/posts?page=77#77)
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To: Gamecock

Rev. 21:27


16 posted on 10/30/2008 1:31:55 PM PDT by kidd
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To: Quix

As Ronald Reagan once said, “There you go again.”


17 posted on 10/30/2008 1:33:30 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (This Papist for Palin asks everyone to pray the Rosary for our country!)
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To: Quix
it has functioned as designed . . . a very clever way to increase the donations into the coffers of the hierarchies around the world.


18 posted on 10/30/2008 1:38:37 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: militant2
Is it possible that Purgatory is simply a cleansing period and that the actual suffering is the inability to be with God for whatever amount of time that takes?

Yes! Purga-torio, the place of purgation.

You know when you've been in a dark room for so long and you walk out into the sun? The sun burns your eyes, it hurts.

Likewise, it is excruciatingly painful to gaze into the pure heart of God knowing how ungrateful you have been to Him all your life. You would die with shame. So you hold back a bit. You accustom yourself to the light little by little, bearing the blinding pain until you can stand fully in His Glory once and for all.

Purgatory is the pure love of God burning off your imperfections until you, too, are pure enough to stand before him without suffering. Without that suffering though, you simply cannot stand to look at His face.

19 posted on 10/30/2008 1:39:32 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Quix
a very clever way to increase the donations into the coffers of the hierarchies around the world.

Yeah, those $10 Mass stipends (one per day, except on Sundays and holydays) add up to a lot of money.

It's almost enough to keep a priest fed and wash his clothes.

Yes, these Papists are certainly very, very clever.

20 posted on 10/30/2008 1:40:17 PM PDT by Campion (Vote for Obama and Get Nuclear War for Free!)
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To: militant2

I love the idea of Purgatory, and, in fact, it was one of the great reasons I left my Lutheran faith for Catholicism. I have always said that Catholicism is a great faith for sinners, because there are so many ways to turn yourself around through it. Purgatory being the final one, of course. Not all Purgatory is like Hell, especially if your soul is just a little mussed up. And even in the worst level of Purgatory, you know that you are eventually going to Heaven, so you have that reassurance no matter how painful it is to get there. I have read that when you pray for a soul in Purgatory, their soul during that time period is quenched. I oftentimes offer up prayers for my mother who recently passed away, and explained to my daughter that Grandma Murph is being relieved with a glass of water (she hated the heat!) every time I pray, and my daughter said that with all my prayers, she surely must have gallons of water in reserve by now. Hopefully, that is true. All Souls Day is right around the corner. Pray for a holy soul today!


21 posted on 10/30/2008 1:40:41 PM PDT by mlizzy
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To: Quix
Without a hint of justification in Scripture . . .

sola scriptura has functioned as designed . . .

a very clever way to increase the donations into the pockets of charlatans and bunco artists around the world.

22 posted on 10/30/2008 1:41:00 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Quix

And, so too, the doctrine of assured salvation has functioned as designed:

a very clever way to increase the number of the damned.


23 posted on 10/30/2008 1:41:56 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Claud
...a very clever way to increase the number of the damned.

Not if they have their handydandy "ELECT" vanity plates...then they're good to go! All ready to go out and sin boldly!

24 posted on 10/30/2008 1:44:02 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Petronski
Not if they have their handydandy "ELECT" vanity plates...then they're good to go! All ready to go out and sin boldly!

That sounds great. Where can you buy them and how much do they cost?

25 posted on 10/30/2008 1:46:31 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Gamecock
Yet, the doctrine of Purgatory, in effect, is saying that we must suffer in purgatory for sins not covered by baptism and not covered by the cross.

Very elegant job of making up something and then accusing Catholics of believing in it.

Too bad Mr. Slick can't defend his faith by telling the truth about what he believes, but has to resort to telling lies about what others believe.

26 posted on 10/30/2008 1:47:04 PM PDT by Campion (Vote for Obama and Get Nuclear War for Free!)
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To: Titanites

They are already paid for, you can pick one at John 3.16


27 posted on 10/30/2008 1:48:39 PM PDT by WKB
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To: Campion

***Too bad Mr. Slick can’t defend his faith by telling the truth about what he believes,***

Oh but he did...

He believes there is no purgatory.


28 posted on 10/30/2008 1:49:14 PM PDT by Gamecock ("...Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles" and both to Americans.)
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To: Titanites

The mere fact that you want a pair indicates you might already have been owning them since before the crack of the dawn of time in Genesis 1:1.


29 posted on 10/30/2008 1:50:17 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Gamecock
He believes there is no purgatory.

According to Slick's description of purgatory, I don't either!

On the other hand, I'm completely happy with the Pope's description of it.

30 posted on 10/30/2008 1:51:33 PM PDT by Campion (Vote for Obama and Get Nuclear War for Free!)
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To: WKB
They are already paid for, you can pick one at John 3.16

You should read John 3:16. Nothing about following a dead Frenchman there or the doctrines of the elect.

31 posted on 10/30/2008 1:53:26 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Petronski

I wonder how many folks who pine for the bliss of Heaven will abandon that pursuit at the first sign of what is required of them to get there.

Fear your judgment, mortal man, who dares to look upon the face of God.


32 posted on 10/30/2008 1:53:51 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Gamecock

My wife was Catholic most of her life.

Not that that is relevant to this, but as I read my Bible I see nothing regarding a “pergatory”. Sounds like some new-age thingee.


33 posted on 10/30/2008 1:56:30 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: Natural Law

>>All except saints (those who ascend directly to heaven) will spend time in purgatory.<<

That’s good news for professing Christians since all Christians are, as defined in the Bible, Saints.


34 posted on 10/30/2008 1:57:56 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: Gamecock
Yet, the doctrine of Purgatory, in effect, is saying that we must suffer in purgatory for sins not covered by baptism and not covered by the cross.

Just another one of those critics of Catholicism who has come forward to refute something that is not Catholic.

Ya know, Catholics believe that eating fish on Fridays will cause their pineal gland to blossom into a third eye, yet there's nothing in Scripture to support that.


Stupid Catholics!

Stupid evil Catholics!

35 posted on 10/30/2008 1:58:27 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: woollyone

>>I actually believe in a pre-pergatory.
It’s kind of like a foyer, or anteroom.<<

Me too. We call it Detroit.


36 posted on 10/30/2008 1:58:54 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: Petronski
The mere fact that you want a pair indicates you might already have been owning them since before the crack of the dawn of time in Genesis 1:1.

I suspected that's how it worked, at least until I sin too boldly, and then the other owners will tell me I really didn't have a pair afterall even though I thought I did.

37 posted on 10/30/2008 1:59:25 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Claud
Well, there is that.



Buzzkill...

38 posted on 10/30/2008 2:00:27 PM PDT by Petronski (Please pray for the success of McCain and Palin. Every day, whenever you pray.)
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To: Claud

>>I wonder how many folks who pine for the bliss of Heaven will abandon that pursuit at the first sign of what is required of them to get there.<<

Thank God for John 3:16!

Also known as Grace!


39 posted on 10/30/2008 2:01:46 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: Natchez Hawk

“It IS finished”, there ain’t no was about it.


40 posted on 10/30/2008 2:05:00 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: Claud

>>I wonder how many folks who pine for the bliss of Heaven will abandon that pursuit at the first sign of what is required of them to get there.<<

What we should pine for, actually, is a relationship with God. I am hoping, though, that all the cars in heaven are made by BMW, but with better reliability.

Which reminds me. The difference between heaven and hell:

In heaven:
The police are British
The lovers are Italian
The chefs are French
The bankers are Swiss
The mechanics are German.

In hell:
The police are German
The lovers are Swiss
The chefs are British
The bankers are Italian
The mechanics are French.


41 posted on 10/30/2008 2:05:59 PM PDT by RobRoy (Islam is a greater threat to the world today than Nazism was in the 1930's.)
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To: RobRoy

Do you think Grace will allow you to waltz into heaven with the filth of sin still on you?

If I’ve committed venial sin against my wife I can barely look her in the eye. Yet you’re going to be able to stand with your mountain of sins before the pure, immaculate heart of the All-Holy Trinity?


42 posted on 10/30/2008 2:07:15 PM PDT by Claud
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To: RobRoy

I always loved that joke. :)


43 posted on 10/30/2008 2:09:44 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Gamecock

No, it doesn’t.

Hope you are praying a lot for this election. ;-)


44 posted on 10/30/2008 2:10:05 PM PDT by SumProVita ("Cogito ergo sum pro vita." .....updated Descartes)
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To: RobRoy

I don’t know, the Catholics have taught the concept for around 2000 yrs. and the Jews prayed for the dead so I’d have to ask which “new” age.


45 posted on 10/30/2008 2:10:30 PM PDT by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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To: tiki

LOL


46 posted on 10/30/2008 2:13:14 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Gamecock

With the assurance of God’s love, and the assurance of eternity, I can bear whatever comes. Here, or later.

I’ll be curious to see what eternity looks like when I get to inhabit it. I’m not worried about the architecture or the process or whatever hierarchy there may be, knowing there is a place for me is enough on that score. But curious as I can be, that I am. I can’t wait to see it.

I’m pretty sure heaven includes barbecue and pie, though. Its not explicitly there in my King James, but reading between the lines I’m pretty sure I’m right. Coffee, too.

I’m inclined to think of myself as a citizen of heaven already. Its like the guy who lives abroad, but he’s got the blue passport in his inside jacket pocket, he’s got the right to go anytime. But maybe its a bit more than that; where ever I reside I think of as a kind of colony for the mother country.

Anyway, when I get there, if I have to hang out on Ellis Island for a while, or I get ushered right in, doesn’t make me much difference. I’m sure I’ll like the scenery, and the people I meet just fine.


47 posted on 10/30/2008 2:14:41 PM PDT by marron
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To: Titanites

John 3.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The Holy Bible : King James Version.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.


48 posted on 10/30/2008 2:16:48 PM PDT by WKB
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To: WKB
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

You probably missed the "should not".

49 posted on 10/30/2008 2:19:58 PM PDT by Titanites
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To: Gamecock

I Cor 3: 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.


50 posted on 10/30/2008 2:21:58 PM PDT by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (To those who believe the world was safer with Saddam, get treatment for that!)
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