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To: RGPII
Here is a lot of information on Our Lady of Guadalupe. It is a miracle -- not a painting. How could basic material still be there today? Much like the Shroud of Turnin still here today.

 

Our Lady of Guadalupe - December 12DEVOTIONAL PRAYER TO OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE

O Virgin Mother of Guadalupe, you wanted to show your compassion to all who solicit your help. Hear the petitions we present to you.

Patroness of the Philippines, we pray for peace, justice and prosperity for our country and for all the countries of the world. Mother of fair love, protect our families. Keep them united in love and watch over our children. Put an end to the sacrifice of innocent lives as you did in Mexico.

Mother of the Church, grant us abundant vocations of priests, religious and laity. We pray to you especially for our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, and all bishops. Grant us a great love for all the sacraments, the signs of God's great mercy.

Thus we will be able to bring all, true peace through Our Lord Jesus Christ, who with God the Father and the Holy Spirit, lives and reign forever and ever.

                                                            Amen.

The Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady of Guadalupe called 'Mother Without Borders' in Los Angeles (Catholic Caucus)

Hernándo Cortés and Our Lady

Our Lady of Guadalupe, Patroness of the Church Militant (Catholic Caucus)

Scientists certify Our Lady of Guadalupe tilma

STRANGE LIGHT CLAIMED IN GUADALUPE IMAGE AFTER MEXICO CITY OKAYED ABORTION

STRANGE LIGHT CLAIMED IN GUADALUPE IMAGE AFTER MEXICO CITY OKAYED ABORTION -- posted on News Forum

The Story of Guadalupe: Hope for Our Violent World

Our Lady of Guadalupe: Protectress of the Unborn

Was Our Lady of Guadalupe Wrong?

METHODIST CHURCH DISPLAYS VIRGIN OF GUADALUPE

GUADALUPE DEVOTION IS CROSSING INTO PROTESTANT DENOMINATIONS

 
A Novena to Our Lady of Guadalupe

Relic From Guadalupe Tilma to Tour U.S.

The Amazing Truth of Our Lady of Guadalupe

Our Lady Of Guadalupe

Celebrating 470 years of an ongoing miracle, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe 1531

Science Stunned by Virgin of Guadalupe´s Eyes

OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE [Read only]


2 posted on 11/06/2008 7:19:47 PM PST by Salvation ( †With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

Would you be saying there is no paint on the telma? I believe there is. That does nothing against it being of a Divine origin. However, “sacred image” does seem to be a better choice of words.

Also as this article reads, the story is well known.

The story is well known.- http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_12_38/ai_82803348/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1

Thank you for your input.


8 posted on 11/11/2008 10:28:33 AM PST by RGPII (Stand your ground!)
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To: Salvation; BaBaStooey

Actually, I found an answer to my question and when we sometimes find an item we wonder about and it is then credibly answered, my faith at least is strengthened.

But to go right to the matter, from the book The wonder of Guadalupe, pages 68-71, excerpted:

“A number of the missionary friars in the country had earlier been infected by Luther’s misguided preaching against the so-called worship of images, and had convinced themselves that the passionate devotion of the natives to the sacred portrait at Tepeyac represented a perilous leaning in this direction....”

So, it’s really two pages long and the original wiki article mentioned said artist Cipo de Aquino but he is not mentioned in the book. It’s difficult to take quotes out of context, however

“Two days later, Montufar journeyed to the hermitage and told the newly baptised natives who were praying there “how they were to understand devotion to the sacred image of Our Lady, how they honoured not the tableau, nor the portrait, but Our Lady herself whose representation this was.” The response from his opponents was immediate and shattering.
Later that day, the Franciscan Provincial, Fray Bustamante (the reference point really and mentioned in my wikipedia quote), preached to a packed congregation at High Mass in the cathedral of Mexico City, fully aware that among his listeners were the Viceroy of the country and his magistrates. He openly lashed out at the cult of the sacred image because “it was very injurious to the natives since it fostered a belief that the picture, which was painted by an indian, worked miracles and was therefore a god.” (These were Fray Bustamante’s words) whereas “the missionaries had exerted every effort to make the natives understand that images were only things of wood and stone and they must not be adored...”

The Provincial’s words caused a widespread scandal, and the very next day the indignant Archbishop opened a juridical inquest into the unfortunate episode, during which nearly all the witnesses sided with him against Bustamante and his vociferous supporters. During the following weeks, acrimony between the two factions grew so fierce that the Viceroy was forced to intervene and counsel moderation (Hmmn, we saw that story of the Monks of Armenia and Greece getting into scuffles in Rome). Though Montufar was reluctant to initiate canonical proceedings against Bustamante, he withdrew the custody of the Tepeyac (which is really where Our Lady of Guadalupe was, Tepeyac hill) hermitage from the Franciscans, which was about the only effective action he could take in these trying circumstances.
This regrettable affair, although stimulating an even greater devotion to the sacred image, proved that Zumurraga’s (Zumurraga, I believe is the Bishop who received Juan Diego initially and received the cloak and the Castillian roses as tradition tells it) earlier prudence was the wiser counsel. As a result, a mantle of official silence descended on Guadalupe, imposed, it is believed, by Charles V in Spain. This in itself, would certainly account for the scarcity of documents on Guadalupe.
(finally, an interesting parallel here)
Perhaps it is more than coincidence that a similar fate overtook the Holy Shroud when Pierre d’Arcis denounced those who regarded the relic as genuince “when the said cloth had been cunningly painted.” Pope Clement VII felt oblged to intervene (in 1389) and enjoin silence on both factions in the dispute, while permitting devotion to the Shroud to continue on condition that it was considered a “representation” of the burial cloth of Christ. In consequence, the later transfer of the Shroud to the Charney family is still veiled in mystery.
But the Bustamante incident is important in one respect: the proven existence of his sermon confirms that the sacred image was already an object of widespread veneration at that time, and hence regarded as of miraculous origin, prior to 1556.”


11 posted on 11/11/2008 5:24:17 PM PST by RGPII (Stand your ground!)
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