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Catholic voters heavily favored Obama, analysis shows
Washington Times ^ | November 7, 2008 | Julia Duin

Posted on 11/06/2008 8:30:22 PM PST by Alex Murphy

Large numbers of Catholics and religiously unaffiliated voters heavily contributed to President-elect Barack Obama's huge margin of victory over Republican Sen. John McCain, according to an analysis of exit poll surveys by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

"Obama had a greater appeal for religious people," said John Green, a senior fellow at Pew. "I don't think we would have seen that support had Hillary [Rodham Clinton] been nominated."

Catholics voted for Mr. Obama over Mr. McCain by a nine-point margin (54 percent versus 45 percent), a turnaround from 2004 when Catholics supported President Bush over Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, by a five-point margin (52 percent to 47 percent).

Their votes came despite the warnings from 89 bishops who issued a blizzard of statements in the closing weeks of the election, warning against voting for a pro-choice candidate.

Denver Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, who last month termed Mr. Obama "the most committed 'abortion-rights' presidential candidate of either major party since the Roe v. Wade abortion decision in 1973," led the effort.

His - and other voices from church leaders - went unheeded.

"Six months ago the pundits were predicting that President-elect Obama would not do well with Catholic voters," said Steve Krueger, national director of the Boston-based group Catholic Democrats. "The fact that Senators Obama and [Joseph R.] Biden reversed a trend, since 1996, of white ethnic Catholics defecting to the Republican Party in presidential elections is of historic significance."

Mr. Obama did especially well among Hispanics, who are overwhelmingly Catholic. Two-thirds of them voted for him compared with white Catholics, who voted for Mr. McCain 52 to 47 percent over Mr. Obama.

"Latino Catholics appear to have been decisive in flipping three states from red to blue: New Mexico, Colorado and Nevada," wrote Michael Sean Winters

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: 2008; bho2008; catholicvote; mccain; sheeruttermadness; treason; unamericanactivities
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To: rom
He replied, "No, I am Catholic, not a Christian".

I don't think that proves anything about the depth of the schism in Christendom, it only proves that your coworker is ... well ... ignorant, of his own religion.

51 posted on 11/06/2008 10:08:16 PM PST by Campion
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To: Religion Moderator

Sorry mod, I don’t use potty language


52 posted on 11/06/2008 10:09:00 PM PST by notaliberal
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To: rom

I don’t think there really is such a schism. It’s just we self-identify with the label Catholic, and tend to get criticized by many in the ‘Bible based churches’ (not ‘saved’, etc). They call themselves ‘Christians’ with no other identifier, and refuse the Prot label.

So... after awhile....

But I think it’s more terminology than anything reflective of something much deeper.

In my parish, most of the time we (well, the priests) refer to ourselves as Christians.


53 posted on 11/06/2008 10:11:10 PM PST by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: Alex Murphy
idiots
54 posted on 11/06/2008 10:12:16 PM PST by patriciamary (9)
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To: WhyisaTexasgirlinPA

Actual abortion in California was defeated due to Black voters.


55 posted on 11/06/2008 10:13:26 PM PST by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: Alex Murphy

This is reason #8 while I’ll never convert to Catholicism.

Those illegals sure must fill up the collection plates.


56 posted on 11/06/2008 10:27:28 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Democrats still want to get Pres. Bush and/or VP Cheney; there might be show trials in Feb09)
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To: LoneApple

Your view that somehow fundamentalism in Christianity equals lack of intelligence is not only insulting in the extreme but erroneous as well.

And if you paid attention to over 100 Bishops as well as Pope Benedict and form Pope John Paul you would know that pro life issues are the foundation of social justice teaching. It does no good to weep and moan over poverty if you are willing to see the preborn baby of a poor women sucked and sliced out of her womb and tossed in a biohazard container.

I strongly suggest you spend some time reading actual Catholic teaching.


57 posted on 11/06/2008 10:51:46 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Earthdweller

Wherever do you get the ‘They hate Evangelicals’ idea? I’ll bet they don’t even THINK of Evangelicals enough to hate them.


58 posted on 11/06/2008 11:30:23 PM PST by informavoracious (U.S.A. 1776-2008 R.I.P.)
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To: Alex Murphy

where do this figure’s come from i don’t remember declaring my religion before i voted


59 posted on 11/06/2008 11:40:00 PM PST by KingNo155
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To: informavoracious
That's really cute but yea...they think about it alright. Trust me, half my ancestors are Catholic. Besides...what was that little war about in Ireland again? The main reason this hate doesn't die here in the US is because the commie information controllers won't let it. Right now their favorite thing to do is make Catholics feel “smarter” or superior to drive a wedge between religions. Always keep in mind..the goal is to destroy all religions, not just Evangelicals.

Check this out...divide and conquer is a long term goal.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1

60 posted on 11/06/2008 11:49:47 PM PST by Earthdweller (Socialism makes you feel better about oppressing people.....)
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To: Earthdweller
I'm a Catholic. I don't hate Evies. Nor do any of the many and diverse Catholics I know. And, we DON'T think about you, except as pro-life, pro-family allies.

I agree the commie an is to replace religion with the state, but I don't believe they are pushing a "Catholics a smarter" wedge at all. Dunno what you're talking about there.,

61 posted on 11/07/2008 12:46:57 AM PST by informavoracious (U.S.A. 1776-2008 R.I.P.)
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To: informavoracious
Or are you trying to tell me that there are no Catholics that hate Evangelicals and they all think like you? Come on...I know it's not discussed openly much except in the media but it's there. You are talking to a heretic...my mother's Catholic ancestors threw my father's Protestant ancestors out of bell towers. LOL.
62 posted on 11/07/2008 12:55:34 AM PST by Earthdweller (Socialism makes you feel better about oppressing people.....)
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To: Earthdweller

Not all Catholics share your apparent English/Irish heritage, you know. And no, I do not know a single Catholic who thinks as you suggest — and I travel extensively.


63 posted on 11/07/2008 1:11:37 AM PST by informavoracious (U.S.A. 1776-2008 R.I.P.)
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To: informavoracious
I travel extensively as well and not a single Irishman with a brain would tell a soul if he had any animosity toward the Protestant majority, he just uses his vote to speak louder than words.

As my Irish grandfather used to say about Irish diplomacy, if you are good at it, you can tell a man to visit the lake of fire and make him think he will enjoy the trip.
This election, half the Catholics told McCain/Palin to put some ice on it. :)~

64 posted on 11/07/2008 1:19:16 AM PST by Earthdweller (Socialism makes you feel better about oppressing people.....)
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To: Earthdweller

Some people who called themselves Catholics voted for O. I did not. All I can say is God is watching.


65 posted on 11/07/2008 1:24:42 AM PST by informavoracious (U.S.A. 1776-2008 R.I.P.)
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To: lastchance

The mistake here is to take one aspect of Catholic thought and turn it into the main focus of the Catholic layperson. Yes, abortion is AN issue but it is not the be-all and end-all issue it is for certain other Christian sects. I am not going to argue religion here, but suffice it to say that being a Christian means more than going to a church and acting like some modern day Crusader. It means living a life based on a the teachings of Jesus Christ and understanding what those teachings are and what they mean. Picking and choosing from New and Old Testament and creating a mish-mosh of both is not Christianity the way I learned it.

I’m sorry if my remarks were insulting but I will accept the charge because I truly believe with all my heart that the alliance fostered by Mr. Rove has been a disaster for the Republican Party because eventually the person you’re asking for help from will ask you to pay the check.


66 posted on 11/07/2008 3:21:07 AM PST by LoneApple
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To: EyeGuy
These Catholics are most definitely not listening to their shepherds, the Bishops

Two comments.

First, the bishops, for the most part, have not done their job. With a few exceptions, how many Catholic politians have we seen even given the THREAT of excommunication for their public scandal? Catholics see many of their leaders are not serious about the teachings of Christ, so neither are they.

Second, neither do Protestants...

xx% McCain, 45% Obama- Protestants

45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholics

Poor Alex should look to the beam in his own congregation's eyes first.

Regards

67 posted on 11/07/2008 4:53:02 AM PST by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
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To: jo kus; EyeGuy; All
Poor Alex should look to the beam in his own congregation's eyes first.

Ping me the next time you talk about me, please. Here are the final results - now footnoted and annotated - the "by the numbers" breakdown of the religious voter for the 2008 Presidential election:

75% McCain, 25% Obama - [White7 Born Again5] Evangelicals1,8
65% McCain, xx% Obama - Weekly church-attending Protestants7
65% McCain, 34% Obama - White Protestants7,8
62% McCain, 35% Obama - State of Utah3
55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics 6,9
54% McCain, 44% Obama - Weekly church-goers1,4,7
54% McCain, 45% Obama - Protestants6,8
51% McCain, 49% Obama - White Catholics1,7
xx% McCain, 53% Obama - Monthly church-goers4**
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholics1,4,6,8,9
xx% McCain, 59% Obama - Semi-annual church-goers4**
38% McCain, 61% Obama - Occasional churchgoers1
37% McCain, 61% Obama - Non-weekly-mass-attending Catholics6
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Catholics8**
xx% McCain, 68% Obama - Don't attend church4 **
21% McCain, 78% Obama - American Jews2,8

** No source provided voting percentages for the other party.

Citations:
1 The Awesome Blue God -- How Obama Forged A New Faith Coalition
2 Exit polls: 78% of Jews voted for Obama
3 Utah's red loses some of its luster
4 Obama's Religious Appeal: Still Missing Evangelicals - which TIME renamed as Obama: Bringing (Some) Evangelicals In
5 The Evangelical Electoral Map
6 What's wrong with Catholic voters? What's wrong with Catholics?
7 Evangelical Voters Favor McCain by Wide Margins
8 Catholic voters heavily favored Obama, analysis shows
9 What Happened to the Catholic Vote?

All numbers cited are the first ones reported in the press. In cases of multiple reports, some percentages cited were not exact. However, the number was within 2% of all the other sources, lending credence to the general number & placement overall.

Other resources:
With the Help of Catholics…Obama’s Victory
Results! Evangelicals

68 posted on 11/07/2008 6:01:47 AM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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Comment #69 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

Amen, FRiend.


70 posted on 11/07/2008 7:12:36 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sandyeggo; Alex Murphy
Do not make this thread "about" another Freeper. That is a form of "making it personal."

Most every social conservative is upset this week. The wounds are fresh. People are pointing fingers - whether at McCain or Palin or Bush or people of their own confession or other confessions.

For those of us on the Religion Forum, the exit polls only show we have work to do - prayers for other believers and our country and hard work to help voters get their priorities in order.

Alex, there are enough threads up to show where the problems are. Let's stop picking at the scab and get to work.

71 posted on 11/07/2008 7:32:40 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: sandyeggo
You know, this is the whole problem in a nutshell. You've run around for days telling everyone how the Catholics voted, ignoring the fact that MILLIONS OF EVANGELICALS ALSO VOTED FOR OBAMA.

Why is it that I was able to stand shoulder to shoulder with all denominations of Christians in support of traditional marriage in California, fighting a common enemy; but I come to FR and find that your main energies in the last few days have been telling the Catholics of this forum, OF WHOM MOST HONEST PROTS HERE KNOW WOULD WOULD NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA, AND KICK THEM WHEN THEY'RE DOWN?

Disgusting.

You go girl!

72 posted on 11/07/2008 7:34:56 AM PST by notaliberal
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To: ClearCase_guy

or an even sadder state for Latino’s...

this Catholic did not vote for hussien and asked others who were considering it how they felt about their tax $$$ going to pay for abortions here and abroad- never mind the approval of live birth abortion....


73 posted on 11/07/2008 7:39:27 AM PST by God luvs America (When the silent majority speaks the earth trembles!)
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Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: LoneApple
I’d just as soon jettison the fundies...

Utimately, the party that will successfully challenge the Democrat/Socialist/Communist alliance will jettison everybody who doesn't put limited government and the preservation of Constitutional rights at the very top of the priority list.

- The fundies don't.
- The Neocons don't.
- The RINOs don't.
- The defense hawks don't.
- The "New Catholics" don't.
- The Wall Street puppetmasters certainly don't.

This party's motto should be found in the words of Thomas Jefferson: "A government strong enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have." It's a simple, clear message that will resonate with the right people and motivate them to actually go to the polls, which "conservatives" didn't seem to bother with this time.

And it doesn't look like that party will be today's Republicans, who seem determined to go down with the sinking ship of a dwindling social/religious demographic.

75 posted on 11/07/2008 7:52:13 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: BerkeleyRefugee

” I knew a daily communicant in Massachusetts who sadly fits that description. He actually did not regard Ted Kennedy as pro-abortion and was ga-ga over Obama. Its hard to understand that level of delusion “

Many of the oldest among us still vote party over religion.

I know several devote catholics who do exactly that. They seem to lose their focus on what they firmly believe in their religion compared to their politics.


76 posted on 11/07/2008 7:58:25 AM PST by patriotspride
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To: jo kus

“...the bishops, for the most part, have not done their job. With a few exceptions, how many Catholic politians have we seen even given the THREAT of excommunication for their public scandal? Catholics see many of their leaders are not serious about the teachings of Christ, so neither are they.”

######

While they are definitely moving in the right direction under Benedict, you are correct, it needs to be MUCH more serious, well-defined and with the punishment of excommunication attached.

The Church’s beliefs are what they are. What are they waiting for?


77 posted on 11/07/2008 8:36:42 AM PST by EyeGuy (Obama will deliver America on a Leash to an envious world.)
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To: sageb1
I attend TV Mass.

What? Does that count?

78 posted on 11/07/2008 8:50:12 AM PST by giotto
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Agreed. There is a deep sense of denial floating around certain segments of Republican Party which remind me of the stories of Japanese soldiers living on remote islands after WW2: They don’t know the war is over. There has to be an understanding that most Americans (and I mean MOST) don’t want the government NOR the religious Bible thumpers intruding into what they consider their private lives. It is an absolute misreading of the population of the United States to think the social issues near and dear to the Religious Right are anywhere near as important with the general public. Americans have a long history of libertarian ideals of personal freedom and prefer not to have anyone tell them what they can or can’t do.

The GOP is at a perilous juncture. Either we take off the blinders, see the world for what it is and formulate a winning strategy or we perish. Start with figuring out what people want and go from there.


79 posted on 11/07/2008 9:16:52 AM PST by LoneApple
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To: Alex Murphy
Ping me the next time you talk about me, please. Here are the final results - now footnoted and annotated - the "by the numbers" breakdown of the religious voter for the 2008 Presidential election:

You missed the whole point. Protestants voted for Obama, as well, and only by a slightly lesser margin... How sad.

Regards

80 posted on 11/07/2008 9:24:06 AM PST by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
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To: EyeGuy
The Church’s beliefs are what they are. What are they waiting for?

That's a good question. I think you could say there are a number of reasons, such as the recent pedophile scandal and being more concerned about being a CEO rather than a teacher and defender of the faith. There are notable exceptions, of course. I questioned the priest who gave the homily at last Sunday's Mass on why this was not mentioned, and he just shrugged. I think they are afraid to appear to "force" other people to have principles or to speak out about politics. I had expected at least a bulletin flier, but saw nothing. One guy even wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper ("I can vote for Obama because...") that got a lot of comments, but no response from the local clergy. I am hoping the next group of priests will take their positions as shepherds a bit more seriously.

I think it is going to take a serious change in culture, beginning at the top. When people see the American bishops thumbing their noses at the pope for the last 40 years, is it surprising that Catholics do the same towards their bishops? And the bishops (even liberals) complain?

Duh?

Regards

81 posted on 11/07/2008 9:32:47 AM PST by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
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To: jo kus
You missed the whole point. Protestants voted for Obama, as well, and only by a slightly lesser margin... How sad.

I disagree - I missed nothing. I daresay that no FReeper is exactly proud of how their particular group responded to this election, in how their group voted if not in the choice of candidates their party offered. Making claims to the contrary is pure mind-reading.

On the other hand, claiming that Protestants voted like the Catholics did, "by a slightly lesser margin" is disingenuous at best, and pure propaganda at least. Here are those exit polling numbers again. This time I've left out the "evangelicals" and and group that I don't have contrasting numbers for. The others I've grouped into pairs, to demonstrate how wrong that idea is. Note that in each category, there's at least a ten-point difference between how Protestants and Catholics voted...

65% McCain, xx% Obama - Weekly church-attending Protestants7**
55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics 6,9

65% McCain, 34% Obama - White Protestants7,8
51% McCain, 49% Obama - White Catholics1,7

54% McCain, 45% Obama - Protestants6,8
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholics1,4,6,8,9,10

** No source provided voting percentages for the other party.

Citations:
1 The Awesome Blue God -- How Obama Forged A New Faith Coalition
2 Exit polls: 78% of Jews voted for Obama
3 Utah's red loses some of its luster
4 Obama's Religious Appeal: Still Missing Evangelicals - which TIME renamed as Obama: Bringing (Some) Evangelicals In
5 The Evangelical Electoral Map
6 What's wrong with Catholic voters? What's wrong with Catholics?
7 Evangelical Voters Favor McCain by Wide Margins
8 Catholic voters heavily favored Obama, analysis shows
9 What Happened to the Catholic Vote?
10 Loyal to the End: Evangelicals Stay the Course

All numbers cited are the first ones reported in the press. In cases of multiple reports, some percentages cited were not exact. However, the number was within 2% of all the other sources, lending credence to the general number & placement overall.

82 posted on 11/07/2008 10:03:00 AM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: ilgipper

“seems like a good amount of those catholics that switched were hispanic”

I think it’s more about them being hispanic than Catholic.
THANK YOU GEORGE W BUSH...


83 posted on 11/07/2008 10:06:58 AM PST by DrewsMum (My 8 year old son cried when he learned Obama won. He said "I am just so sad for our army people")
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To: Mr. Jeeves

Mr. Jeeves, quit reading my thoughts and get out of my head!! LOL...magritte


84 posted on 11/07/2008 10:07:41 AM PST by magritte (If a problem comes along, you must whip it.)
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To: LoneApple

We are discussing the primacy of life issues in Catholic teaching not what other Christian denominations teach. Which are so varied could and have filled volumes.

And frankly I think we could do with a hell of a lot more modern day crusaders considering the very real danger radical Islam poses to our civilization. I thank God every October for our victory over the Turks ate Lepanto. Which without the aid of Our Lady would have been a rout.

And no one is picking and choosing verses from the OT and NT. And I suppose I must remind you that Catholic teaching does not rest on Sola Scriptura. I think the encyclical Dei Verbum would be of help in that area. You also would do well to read the fathers and such early Christian writings as the Didache. These would give you a heads up on the constant teaching of the Church regarding the grave sin of abortion.

And I do not think your remarks are insulting. But I do find them ignorant of Catholic teaching. I believe fully it is not willful ignorance but evidence of the extremely poor religious education you most likely received. If you want to correct that ignorance I would be glad to supply you with some wonderful apologetics.


85 posted on 11/07/2008 10:39:55 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

Rather than risking further offense, I defer to your knowledge on the subject and will refrain from interjecting my own thoughts on Christianity and especially Catholicism.


86 posted on 11/07/2008 10:52:26 AM PST by LoneApple
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To: LoneApple

Sorry, I know I sounded snarky. But my disgust with ill informed so called Catholic voters who helped but Obama in the White House has caused some overflow. I think the real problem politically is that we did not have a conservative Republican candidate running. So it made it much easier for those who usually vote Republican to switch party lines.
It also did not help that McCain brought a knife to a gun fight. Which any sage will tell you never goes well for the knife holder.


87 posted on 11/07/2008 10:58:07 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance

I understand what you’re saying and concur. I knew all along that McCain was not the person to have as our candidate - it’s unfortunate that was proved correct.


88 posted on 11/07/2008 12:54:09 PM PST by LoneApple
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To: Finalapproach29er

Uh, many of the “illegals” are now Pentecostal, and I bet they don’t contribute significantly to collections. Thank you for spouting just another typical anti-Catholic myth.


89 posted on 11/07/2008 12:59:14 PM PST by Pyro7480 (This Papist asks everyone to continue to pray the Rosary for our country!)
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To: Religion Moderator; Alex Murphy; sandyeggo
Alex, there are enough threads up to show where the problems are. Let's stop picking at the scab and get to work.

With all due respect to you, Religion Moderator, your actions will speak louder than your words with the regulars on the Religion forum. If Alex continues to "pick at the scab," will there be appropriate action?

90 posted on 11/07/2008 1:02:49 PM PST by Pyro7480 (This Papist asks everyone to continue to pray the Rosary for our country!)
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To: LoneApple

Kind of like watching the stewards arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic as it sank.


91 posted on 11/07/2008 1:17:34 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Pyro7480

Can you name one bishop/cardinal that who wants the immigration laws enforced?


92 posted on 11/07/2008 1:52:26 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Democrats still want to get Pres. Bush and/or VP Cheney; there might be show trials in Feb09)
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To: Finalapproach29er

I’m not going to let you change the subject. Can you conclusively prove that the Church is weak on illegal immigration because it wants collections?


93 posted on 11/07/2008 2:34:47 PM PST by Pyro7480 (This Papist asks everyone to continue to pray the Rosary for our country!)
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To: Pyro7480
With all due respect to you, Religion Moderator, your actions will speak louder than your words with the regulars on the Religion forum. If Alex continues to "pick at the scab," will there be appropriate action?

Whose future actions are you questioning here?

94 posted on 11/07/2008 3:19:59 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: Alex Murphy
I disagree - I missed nothing. I daresay that no FReeper is exactly proud of how their particular group responded to this election, in how their group voted if not in the choice of candidates their party offered. Making claims to the contrary is pure mind-reading.

Whatever. You leave your motives open and quite obvious. I guess if you keep telling yourself that, you might begin to believe it... Posting the same story twice??? Your track record of posts clearly shows WHY you posted what you do/did. The intent is to sew discord in the Body of Christ (which is what most of your threads are intended to do) by waving it in the Catholic's face that many voted for Obama. You missed my message because your very own numbers show very little difference between Catholic and Protestant voters.

Note that in each category, there's at least a ten-point difference between how Protestants and Catholics voted...

Big deal. So if I have 1000 Catholics and 540 voted for Obama, and I have 1000 Protesants and 450 voted for Obama, you call that a huge difference? So 450 of 1000 Protestants who support a candidate who thinks murdering children is OK is a good ratio for you? Are you happy with 4.5 of 10 Protestants think a candidate who supports murdering unborn children is OK? Like Christ said, look to the beam in your own eye. I wouldn't exactly be bragging about those numbers...

I highly doubt very many Catholics OR Protestants here on FR voted for Obama, anyways, so it makes your motives that much more clear. Look to your congregation, friend.

Regards

95 posted on 11/07/2008 3:21:47 PM PST by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
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To: taraytarah
The 78% Jewish vote is the saddest one.
I’m convinced they have emotionally detached themselves from Israel.


Even as a non-denominational Christian that supports Israel
(although like the USA, is not always "on the side of the angels"),
the term "self-hating" does come to mind.
96 posted on 11/07/2008 3:24:35 PM PST by VOA
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To: Pyro7480

Without Catholic Hispanics, most of whom side with their la conquista brethern, the Catholic church would be far weaker/emptier in many regions.

You can pretend they’re pure.

Even if their position had no political component, they are fomenting disrespect for our laws.

If we are no longer a nation of laws, then this nation is going to have some very angry people.


97 posted on 11/07/2008 4:03:32 PM PST by Finalapproach29er (Democrats still want to get Pres. Bush and/or VP Cheney; there might be show trials in Feb09)
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To: Alex Murphy

I seem to remember Rudy Giuliani going after these kind of voters, the ones who were basically clueless hero worshippers.


98 posted on 11/07/2008 6:39:15 PM PST by Kevmo (Palin/Hunter 2012)
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